Ah, thanks @IO_Madness and @chasedobson . IO, that software soundcard you linked is pretty good, but it requires an offline version of windows which I don’t have a dedicate machine to do that with right now (my backup PC is my work PC, and my music machine is my main laptop). But that’s OK, seems I can still get plenty of channels in either case over USB and then just use the AVB bus for mixer control. And I didn’t think about this, but that Presonus has a built in multitrack recorder too, so I could just pop an SD card in, set up my mix over the network (I assume a wifi dongle would get either of these onto my wireless network?) record, and then take the finished multitrack to my DAW for ear candy.
The Hardware Megathread
IO_Madness
#2658
Yeah, I think AVB and Dante are really more focused on the live sound area, rather than studio stuff, tho with these virtual sound cards it seems they’re becoming more flexible, but probably still need more work to be done to be a solution for the studio arena.
Artificer
#2659
AVB is an Layer 2 open standard for Audio over Ethernet that wraps up a bunch of other standards for transmitting audio data in real time. It leverages IEEE 802.1AS for timing to keep everything aligned, and IEEE 1722 AV for packet encapsulation. MOTU and Presonus both use that standard. The biggest downside (other than possible implementation issues) is that it requires a dedicated switch (or VLAN, which a lot of consumer hardware don’t do) to run. You can’t just plug it in to your home network and have it work well. On the other hand, switches are dirt cheap.
Dante is a Layer 3 proprietary standard that wraps up audio packets in a specific way using the standard IP scheme, just like anything else on your network. That means it’ll work with any old networking equipment. It also tends to be more expensive since it’s proprietary.
Goes back to the first point - you need a dedicated network to run AVB, regardless of how good it is. In semi-layman terms, AVB takes a chunk of audio data and wraps it in a packet, the same way as anything else on the network. But it’s not the same kind of packet (different headers, etc), so switches and computers and whatnot can confuse it for a regular packet. Dante gets around that by wrapping up the data the same way as everything else, so a switch or computer knows what it is (an IP packet of data) and how to forward it on to where it’s going. Technically, plugging an AVB device into your home network will work, but shit’s going to get chopped and chewed by massive packet loss as things get lost and dropped and sent to the wrong place, or the AVB device receives packets meant for computers instead.
Yes, no, and yes. Because AVB is an open standard, they can talk to each other. You can actually connect them device to device (like via ADAT, single ethernet cable from one to the other) or network more devices via a switch.
So, all this is really cool, but does it do what you need it to? Maybe, maybe not. AoE is really focused on AV work like broadcasting, or live sound support for places like stadiums and airports, where the goal is to move a lot of audio around to a lot of different end points using cheap and/or existing cabling. It is getting leveraged for home use, but it doesn’t have the development levels that make for ultra reliable production setups without completely buying into a single ecosystem (all MOTU, Presonus, etc), because while it should do what it says on the tin, different implementations end up not talking and things can fall apart. That’s not to say it won’t work, or that you shouldn’t try to make it work, but I personally wouldn’t buy a different brand expansion unless it was dirt cheap or had a return policy so I could verify it working. You don’t need that with something like ADAT.
Creepr
#2660
I have been trying to understand all of this ADAT stuff too as I want to eventually expand my inputs for recording. Each ADAT device can service 8 ins and 8 outs from what I understand. I think the 16 channel stuff I saw had 2 ADAT outs/ins to handle the extra channels. So if you only have 1 ADAT-in on your current interface (which according to Google you do), you can only expand 8 more inputs. Am I right on my understanding here @Artificer, @chasedobson @-anyoneelsewhoknowsthisstuff?
As for the Motu, you can get a MUCH cheaper one if you only want to connect it via ADAT. there is a non -es version that has Firewire and/or USB and it can be had used for under 400:
if you are going to use it just as an ADAT expander, who cares what the other connections are right?
Also, you mentioned that RME was too expensive, but I was looking at these, which (and I may be missing something here) should offer 8x8 ADAT expansion for 200 bucks:
I guess they are “meant” to connect to their PCI cards via the extra DE-15 looking connection on the back, but they have ADAT, so…I would think they would work? This was on my radar for expansion at any rate, but I have not researched it enough to be 100% sure I am right on the connectivity.
jbvdb493
#2662
Imo the best thing for you would be to get something like this:
All the network stuff is massive over kill for home use imo.
White_Noise
#2663
Yes, I’m starting to see that. Was nice to learn more about it, but it seems it is not really designed with my use case in mind, that it wasn’t going to do exactly what I wanted anyways, and that I can save a lot of money by skipping it. Which is nice, no joke I’ve budgeted out like two years worth of gear budgets and I had “1K+” earmarked for solving audio interfacing. So not spending that is money that I can do something much more fun with down the line.
Thanks again for all the input @Creepr @chasedobson @IO_Madness @Artificer and @jbvdb493. Sounds like you have saved me a lot of headaches and money. And I really did learn a lot as well. Never a bad thing, that.
IO_Madness
#2666
I tried the older iElectribe app for iPad when I still had an iPad. It was actually really cool, and a good recreation of the original, and was just as fun, since it basically was a digital unit anyway. I think that’s the one app I miss having from when I used an iPad.
Roo_Stercogburn
#2667
iPad just another type of computer running soft synths. I like it. I use it. But that’s what it is.
relic
#2669
Yea, I have Groove Rider GR-16 which is basically a software version of the new Electribes. It is pretty good. I’m just a groove box whore and apps are a cheap add on for the Digitakt’s 8 midi tracks.
IO_Madness
#2670
Review thus far of the Zoom H4n:
I’ve had my new (to me) Zoom H4n for about a couple weeks now, and have gotten to try it out a little bit.
So far, I’m really digging it!
The unit is a nice size and feels durable in your hands, and records ok. I’m kinda glad I bought from this particular seller on eBay, because with the H4n I also got a nice SKB hard case, a little tabletop stand, as well as a plugin remote for the H4n. The remote isn’t absolutely necessary, but I’ve been liking it because using the remote you don’t have to touch the H4n to start or stop it when you’re recording, as the mics pick up any touching of the unit very apparently. Being able to use a little remote connected by a cable, you can avoid the mic picking up that noise.
Also got necessary cables to hook up the device, as well as the original windscreen.
Recording quality sounds pretty nice for a handheld recorder. My last recorder was a Tascam DR03, which was just a basic unit, a step up from a wal mart voice only recorder, but that was about it. As others had said in the thread, the H4n Pro actually does have better pre’s, but for something less than $300, it sounds pretty nice. Being able to hook up a couple of my own mics to it is a big benefit, which I hope to try out at some point.
One thing I can say, using the H4n as an audio interface SUCKS! lol The headphone amp no this unit is SO bad, the audio coming over the headphones is useless except to check whether there is or is not signal, or if you just need to get information off a voice recording. I was actually kinda surprised by this, not that I expected a lot from this being able to be used as an interface (I certainly not planning no using it as such), but man, this was actually no good.
When listening over the headphones, I don’t know if the headphone is just cheap… basically, anything you hear out of the unit using it as an interface, becomes very distorted, and has all kinds of bit level distortion going on. It sounds NOTHING like what you record. FORTUNATELY, what the unit actually records sounds a lot better, but the headphones, it sounds like you’re listening on some 8-bit handheld gaming device or something. It has a lot of digital artifacts and it’s basically useless if you’re actually trying to mix. It DOES pass audio, so I mean, if as a last ditch resort, this is the only interface you can find and you absolutely need to record something, I guess you might do it, but it just sounds SOO bad.
Another minor complaint, probably more because I’m spoiled normally using a computer with an NVMe and lots of RAM, but takes a bit to actually boot up after being turned off. It takes a good 20-30 seconds to actually turn on. Once it’s on, it reacts well enough, but if you’re in a situation where you hear some cool sound and bring up your recorder to capture it at that moment, you might be missing some stuff while you’re waiting for it to boot.
Other than, I’m really digging it.
Creepr
#2671
Well, thanks to all the posts above about audio interfaces I am now significantly poorer…just splurged on an Audient iD44. You guys suck (and thank you). 
Auto-meh-geddon
#2672
I realised I’m too lazy to work with samples only.
With the Force it would be easier and faster to just load samples into drumkits and programs and bang away, instead I just can’t get myself to lose my life browsing sample packs, I get disheartened and I just move on to synth programming.
Meh…
I might use the One-Box challenge to just make a track using only samples and a drumkit, which only includes up to 64 samples…
chasedobson
#2673
Ive got a fuck ton of samples, shit ive been collecting since like 2005 or so.
From time to time I go through and curate smaller “packs” so its not crazy overwhelming to build, say, a new kit to update a track. I keep them sort of genre specific, so im not wading through a ton of 80’s gated reverb snares to add to my house track, or whatever.
Artificer
#2674
I’m interested to hear how you like it. I don’t have any experience with the 44, but it seems well reviewed.
White_Noise
#2675
I shopped around a bit for ADAT expansions this week, and @jbvdb493 put me on the right track with the octopre. But I found a b-stock unit of the octopre dynamic on reverb for less than a brand new octopre, and I figured it’d be nice to have the compressors for a possible drum machine in the future so I went for that one. This is what should come to me, with a few dings (though I bought my 18i20 b-stock as well and I honestly can’t tell anything about it is off except the box had a big orange B1 sticker on it). This is B3, so perhaps a bit more beaten, but as long as it works I’m fine.