The Hardware Megathread

#2636

I need to stop listening to that J3PO demo of the Prophet 5… I do not need a $3500 5 voice analog beast of a synth :eyes:

#2637

But do you need a 5-octave keyboard? Because you could buy a midi controller sure, but for just $3500 you get a top-notch keyboard that comes with a top-notch 5 voice analog beast of a synth for free.

#2638

Artificer, when you’re talking about jitter, do you mean on the audio clock or the MIDI clock, or both?

#2639

Audio, specifically word clock. That applies to both internal DAC and ADAT (depending on if the interface is doing the clocking). I don’t do a lot of MIDI outboard these days, so I can’t really speak to that side of things except in generalities…

My guess is that most smaller and cheaper units use a single PLL circuit for the master clock, so if you see serious issues in one, you’ll probably see it in both, though MIDI tends to be more forgiving.

#2640

I like the cut of your jib :sailboat:

#2641

Whatever happened to the Futursonus Parva? The website is mostly broken in the support area, with no more downloads for the firmware updater, firmware, the community forum and store links go back to the main site, etc… I guess he decided he could no longer do it?

edit according to a YouTube video from September 2019, Brad is done and moved on to something six months before that video even.

#2642

Yes you do.

#2643

@Artificer, so I think I’m leaning towards the Audient id14. I’m seeing them going used for around ~$200, so I’ve made it my goal to find one under $200 and if I can do, I’m probably gonna go ahead and buy one.

The RME Babyface looks awesome, that $900 price tag is not something I’m looking to drop all at once though. I am considering if it’d be worth it in the long term, and whether I could simply hold off on getting an interface until I could afford one.

The Focusrite Clarett series also looks really attractive, and the 2pre USB isn’t terribly beyond my budget, so I feel like I should be able to find a used one a bit more in line with what I’m looking to pay, but I can’t seem to any good prices on used ones. It seems they either hold their value really well, or maybe it’s a bad time in the market… Like, if I could find a used Clarett 2pre USB for $300, I might buy it. On the other hand, I did find a few RME Babyface’s for pretty nice discounts as compared to its new price (I found one for $600), but that’s still a bit more than I want to drop lol.

And so, debating whether to save up for a really nice interface, and buying a stop gap, or just buying something pretty good at the price point I could do right now.

#2644

We can have a whip round. Lets start by whipping @Auto-meh-geddon. He does nothing of note and nobody will miss him. Also he squeals in a wonderful accent.

I’ve been using my Fireface UCX for quite some time now. Admittedly I don’t tour or move it around much but its just kept on trucking since I got it without any issues and the lovely people at RME just keep supporting it. Well so far. I’ve probably tempted fate and they’re laughing at me now :smiley:

#2645

As you may have seen, there are actually three versions of the Babyface - the original (blue), the Pro (silver) and the new Pro FS.

The biggest practical difference between the original and the Pro is that the original has a breakout cable for all connectivity, while the Pro has built in in/outs. There’s some nominal quality differences as well (THD, jitter), two of the inputs are direct line in which bypass the preamps (great if you’re using outboard pres, otherwise not a huge deal), the headphone output is improved (nice, but not a thing if you’re using monitors), and the input impedance is 1M instead of 470k (better for recording guitars, mostly).

The FS is a revision of the Pro that includes better jitter suppression, higher headphone output, output gain reduction switch for monitors, and some minor improvements in signal quality (XLR SNR/THD).

All that is nice, but none of it is a deal breaker imo. If you can find a cheap original Babyface, I think it’d serve you well. While I think the RMEs are a measurably better interface than the id14 in some ways, money is money and I don’t think you’d go wrong with an Audient, especially for around $200.

It’s easy to get caught up in the details with these things. I doubt you’d notice a big sonic difference between any of the three RMEs, and maybe not between the RME and the Audient depending on what and how you’re recording and what you’re used to. Honestly, the breakout cable on the original Babyface would probably be the biggest difference in day-to-day use. Considering what you’re coming from, I think they’d all be a step up.

#2646

I was checking out the AIs you mentioned and I would appreciate your/anyone’s FB/input on a couple I found on Reverb:

  1. SPL Crimon (1) for about 300…It seems to be missing like one button and the talkback feature vs the version 3. Otherwise it looks awesome for mix checking and A/Bing stuff with all those buttons. good connectivity.
  2. MOTU 828mk3. (also about 300) definitely a different beast than above, but it has so many nice inputs for my synths…and everyone says that MOTUs are great, but I heard about some driver instability?

my criteria is flexible I guess…just looking for real-world experience with these brands and makes.

#2647

Can’t go wrong with motu imo

#2648

crap, I just realized Artificer commented already on that exact Motu model above…I thought it was an earlier model. Guess the driver question is answered.

#2649

Alright, since we’re on audio interfaces, let me run something by you guys and some of the thoughts I’ve had for myself.

As I said earlier, I have a Scarlett 18i20 gen2, which I got for under $300, so I’m pretty happy with it. I haven’t recorded my hardware much since I got it because honestly, I would need to put more work into really getting FL studio to work as a recording solution. So, when I sit down to play, I just turn on the Scarlett and all my synths are routed straight to my headphones so I never have to unplug and replug anything. And for that, it has been great. I got the drivers, set up my routing about a year ago, and haven’t had to touch it since. And the few times I have decided to record, really all my troubles come on the software side and getting signals routed and levels right in FL Studio, which is a template I should sit down and make. Chalk that up to user error.

However, I’ve physically outgrown the unit faster than I expected. It has 8 physical audio inputs, and I’m currently using 7 (AKAI force takes two, Prophet Rev2 takes two and can do four, Arturia Matrixbrute takes two, and Microfreak takes one) and I have the Osmose on order which I assume is stereo out as well. And hopefully in the next year I want to pick up a nice FX pedal to play through (think Strymon or high-end Boss), and I’m starting to consider offloading the Force for either a TR-8S or saving up for a RYTM - so that’ll mean even more inputs (though actually I think both drum machines can spit out all their channels on USB now). The unit does take ADAT, so I could just throw an expander on it and call it done. BUT, I’ve been thinking about trying to make my hardware talk better with my software, especially if I’m going to have that much hardware sitting around.

Whatever I do, I’ve already set aside budget for a patch bay so that I don’t feel a need to rush out and buy anything ASAP. It will also help when I do eventually start to mess with pedals. So for an interface, I’m looking to get to 16 inputs, but I’d also like some good built in mixing that I can control via software over a network (so that I can use another PC to control it for now and pick up a cheap tablet to be my dedicated mixer interface later on). That way I’m never forced to hook up my music PC to change audio routing so that I can make something work. I know myself well enough to know that I do that only literally when I’ve accidentally made a feedback loop and I can’t use half the inputs on my interface. I suppose the patch bay would help here as well.

I’ve seen a lot of live-oriented mixers that seem to fit the bill, though this one seems to fit my needs best:

MOTU has the 828es, which I would just ADAT my current interface into to get to the 16:

And I would love to consider RME, but everything that they have that seems to fit the bill in terms of giving me the inputs I want is about twice the price, which is a little beyond the pale for me. Though there is a 24-channel of that Presonus for $1300. With selling my Scarlett (which I wouldn’t need in that case because those things don’t have ADAT), that wouldn’t be too much of a struggle to fit into my budget, and by the time I have enough gear to take up all 24 inputs I’d probably have some other problems (like my family committing me to an asylum, I’m about ready to check myself in just thinking about it).

So I have a few questions for people who actually have experience with stuff like this:

  1. What exactly IS AVB? Is it just a protocol for controlling mixers remotely via app/web, or does that mean I need to plug in the interface to my PC via ethernet to take advantage of it? I also notice much higher channel counts being quoted with AVB (I think both the interfaces I linked are like 40 channels USB and 50 with AVB, which is why I assume it’s a different physical connection).

  2. I have pretty good home network, so I assume I won’t have issues with reliability. Is that insane of me?

  3. Some of my future expansion options are obvious on the MOTU side - I’m going to have a spare ADAT set ready to go whenever I might need it. But are there other options with AVB? I see a lot of things like mixers and stage boxes with AVB, and I just don’t know how that would all connect, or if I could, would I need other gear? MOTU shows a bunch of AVB stuff talking through a switch of some sort. Is this stuff manufacturer agnostic, or would I be stuck in the MOTU AVB ecosystem if I bought the MOTU? Is the Presonus actually expandable via AVB?

I don’t know how dumb any of that sounds, but I’ve tried to look into it and all I can take away is “lots of audio over a network”. That sounds like what I want, but I want to know a bit more before I spend this kind of money.

#2650

AVB is their proprietary protocol for routing digital audio from interface to interface. Think of it as MOTU’s Dante.

The idea is if you’re using it as a system for routing audio to/from several destinations you can use a network hub to do the job, rather than having bulky multichannel XLR lines. One could, for example, have a computer on stage running multiple outs over AVB to a monitor desk that has a MOTU interface in its rack. That same network could also send those channels to front of house for the mix engineer who would also need a MOTU interface at that position.

For more compact setups it has the ability to streamline the shit out of a trailer pack for touring, running 2 ethercon LAN lines vs a whole trunk of multicore snake.

Thats just the live application. One could also really easily/effectively wire a multi room studio up over AVB so that one could stream/playback/record audio from any room in the building to another.

#2651

I believe, however, that AVB, like Dante, CANNOT connect directly to a computer’s ethernet port however. The AVB (and Dante) protocol are not understood by the computer, without special hardware, and so I think AVB will only work between AVB devices, although I did read you may be able to control AVB devices over ethernet (but not transmit audio).

I found this article which was pretty interesting, although it doesn’t answer your question (https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/ethernet-audio), but from what I’m seeing, connecting a PC directly to an AVB network will NOT work.

#2652

Dante directly to computer will work!

You just need to grab Dante virtual soundcard. I think the 2 channel version is free and the multichannel will cost you a bit of cash. I was Dante level 2 certified but never bothered to actually get the cert, i was more interested in the class itself for practical knowledge. Nothing i’ve ever done has required a cert. lol.

#2653

hmmmmm these guys are advertising some kind of AVB virtual soundcard as well:

http://www.audioscience.com/internet/products/avb/hono_avb_vsc.htm

#2654

well i’ll be damned.

#2655

So I guess @White_Noise , short answer, yes, as long as you have a virtual soundcard!

That’s kinda cool. I work as an AV tech at a university so we mess with AES50 and networked audio a bit, but seeing AVB OR Dante, for that matter, open to connect over a regular computer is pretty cool!