Essentially, yes, but I think the only potential confusion could stem from the idea that there are like 4+ different folders for the different file types and some of the file extensions are the same as other ones, but aside from that (I made a very crude standalone app that can identify them better, but it needs some work to really shine), it really is as simple as just pulling down a preset menu and using a script just like an instrument preset.
Patcher does have a sort of UI element to it that kind of rivals a prepackaged M4L device, but the only thing holding people like me back from using it more is the unoptimized nature of it all. Crude alignments that never work, janky canvases you have to put on top of everything if you want some color and very sparse font options really make things painful to work with, and as mentioned Patcher suffers from even worse versions of this like the inability to duplicate a ‘module’ in any way at all. So even creating things inside of patcher (even without any scripting) is really clunky.
But I still think it’s pretty easy for the enduser if things are done right and UI is emphasized. I just usually try to cater to people somewhere in the middle and that might be my biggest downfall!
I should also mention that as much as I hate AI, their new little chatbot actually does a pretty good job of explaining shit like this, though, which probably removes the barrier a little. I’ve had it blatantly lie to me about the piano roll API at least twice already, so it’s not perfect, but at least it’s preloaded with real information that was specifically drip-fed to it from IL. Probably one of the better implementations of AI I’ve seen yet, although I still wouldn’t want it to write my code
(that would also make things less fun, but getting better examples is nice)
You will undoubtedly do so much more with Ableton, imo. And the good news is that you can always use FL as a plugin inside of it, which is pretty much what I do with Bitwig.
The only downside I can see is the cost. If that’s genuinely not an issue, you definitely should use a real DAW for most tasks if you can and keep FL as that crazy power tool that connects to it, imo.
You’ll also find out fast that Ableton is actually simpler, and FL just taught you how to do things the wrong way, because essentially that’s what it does. Once you can navigate around Live, you’ll navigate around any DAW with ease
Lol, I call it ‘MIDI Brickwaller’. It fills up the piano roll with a solid block of MIDI and then you can chisel it down by using other scripts like the note sprinkler, or my random mutes and random color generators to create up to 127 simultaneous patterns.
I’d argue it really comes down to price, unless you can point to a specific thing in Live that you need that you just can’t do in FL, and that’s a really small subset of features. Despite their differences they mostly land you in the same place musically, just by different routes. The other argument would be workflow, like if you just enjoy and feel more productive in one or the other.
Just based on price alone, I think you get a shitload more for your money with FL, and without any real compromise. And I say that as a die hard Ableton user.
This is huge, I’m in too deep to get out now, but it is way easier to do some key things in Live than it is in FL. I have to have some really hacky workarounds to get decent swing, for instance.
And in exchange, I am unable to wrap my head around a track-based midi and audio system. I just organize stuff how I want in the playlist and it works for me. The fact that no other daw is set up like that has absolutely ruined me.
Well, I’m not paying anything for either of them at the moment, so I don’t have anything to regret yet. Just some thoughts, I think.
The general concept of music production stays the same. Y’know - sounds and plugins. I ammm eeking on the edge of ableton just because the “premium” feel, but I don’t know if I can save up 6 grand for a Mac Studio and Suite 12 liscence
TF you need a mac studio for? The entry level mac mini is more powerful than my PC, and I use mastering plugins that destroy all known CPUs. Worst that happens is you have to bounce audio tracks. I don’t like to do it, especially in a mastering session where ideally if I want to tweak the EQ into the compression I shouldn’t have to revert the project to do it, but I get work done.
Yeah, my whole argument is with the assumption you’d be paying for the software, and given that you’re young and on a budget, FL really makes sense because of it’s cost, free upgrade model and features. As you say, it’s all about making music and you can certainly do that in FL. I’d even argue that for certain workflows, FL is much better than Ableton.
And I do think you should pay for the software. I get where you’re at, most of us have been there, but I can’t begin to explain how mind-bendingly hard this software is to make and improve, and the people that do it deserve their small sack of silver. None of these folks get into audio software to get rich. No Evil Empire here, just smart, passionate, hard working people that want to make tools that allows others bring more joy into the world.
Apple products on the other hand, I have nothing nice to say. But if you’re already convinced, I’m sure I won’t talk you down from that ledge.
Actually, you’re right. I should just get a mac mini. My current laptop costs just as much and it’s pretty crap. I really need good CPU. Literally any time I create a pitch automation in most of my projects I get serious problems and without an external interface I can’t actually increase the quality of FL’s sound without making the UI framerate turn to shit.
Actually, I might look into buying a refurbished M4. Only concern is CPU, I’m just worried it’ll be a waste of time. Still want to get one for home work, probably 512 gb storage. But do I get it before an iPad..? That is the question…
Of course, I plan to pay when I can actually afford it. Still being on FL 21 is really annoying, actually, and I have to jump through a bunch of hoops to stop Ableton from locking me out…
I know a lot of people like that, and it’s not that I’m an apple glazer. I like pretty much all computer systems, but I enjoy the feel and design of the newer apple products so much more. The tricky thing with windows products is the overall productivity slog.
Oh wow, I just realized I can buy Live 12 Suite for $550 under an educational license, and I’ll still have complete access to Ableton after finishing my schooling. FL producer edition is still cheaper, but for full plugins and everything that 12 Suite has I think it’s the better option.
Right - so if I save up for a few months I’ll be able to buy a mac mini and live 12 suite license for about $1400. Phaseplant (probably the synth I’ll want for the future) is 300 bucks so I might just use vital Other than that most of my current plugins are free, and I should learn to use the stock Ableton plugins before worrying about buying all of that crazy shit.
I forget what it’s called, but the built-in wavetable synth inside of Live is massively underrated. Both FL and Ableton provide 100% free demos with all access to their shit, so you can even check out what you’ll get long before taking the plunge. Plus, if you’re insane like me, there are always backdoor ways to export your sounds and track, so you can still keep what you’ve made. The only real downside is not having a save button
I dont even have that, though (although talking about it makes me want to fire up Blue Cat’s Connector and siphon some sounds out of it), so Vital and Surge have really been my jams otherwise. And if you’re old school, Massive goes on sale for like $10 all the time.
Wavetable, operator, analog, etc. No, that’s not a description of what they do, that’s just their names
I totally could make full tracks with just stock plugins, but the amount of effort it would take would be huge compared to what I can do in about five seconds using serum etc. There might be a cracked version of Serum2 for Macintosh products, but I still want to actually own spyware free software…
Anyway - the Mac mini might be a bad idea (I can’t really take it with me anywhere, which will become a huge PIA for live performances and ideas on the go.) I’m still doing research on everything. Also still very happy about the half price Ableton… Yummy.
And after using Ableton and taking a moment to find the FL studio hotkey equivalents I’m really enjoying it. The workflow is so much nicer. I don’t even have to route anything… All the plugins just get dumped onto a single track And single press hotkeys to autoscale tracks to fit the screen? I’m in DAW heaven…
I have that one, I think it goes on sale for $200 fairly regularly. Most software does, especially around November/December. In fact, the list of plugin companies that DON’T do sales is extremely short. Everyone else, I wait until the holiday sales to make my purchases.
Wow. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I ended up with Falcon for only $50 more on black Friday. I wonder what Serum goes for during that sale period
That’s actually true, and I haven’t even thought about that once. Their synths seem to be heavily influenced by additive and FM synthesis across the board, which kind of fits into FL’s alien vibe.
One day I’m going to fill up their suggestion box, since their AI keeps directing me to it
Yeah, maybe they decided their efforts are better in ‘off the beaten path’ synth styles. Like anyone can download Vital for free and have a good wavetable synth. And I feel like a lot of people are on Phase Plant, Pigments, or Serum/2, all of which do a bang up job at creative wavetable stuff. Maybe it’s just not worth moving resources away from whatever else they’re working on to recreate the wheel.
premium 
and without an external interface I can’t actually increase the quality of FL’s sound without making the UI framerate turn to shit.
Other than that most of my current plugins are free, and I should learn to use the stock Ableton plugins before worrying about buying all of that crazy shit.
And single press hotkeys to autoscale tracks to fit the screen? I’m in DAW heaven…