Beat Battle Discussion


#163

We’re not doing any projects with the label, we’re not looking for releases on IDMf. The BB’s are remaining separate from the label.

The IDMf community itself is dwindling, and that’s part of the reason we’re not getting any more participants. We’re one of the first things you see on the front page, and we don’t get much traffic. IDMf itself doesn’t get much traffic. Certainly no new traffic, and the site has been boiled down to such a plain state that there’s hardly anything to bring people here. It doesn’t look much different than a scam site.

Right now we’re focusing on getting 5 BB’s with 5 participants, that is simply our current goal. We will decide depending on the success of this what direction to go next.


#164

Maybe the bbs format needs to be changed…I think that we can still keep bb 1.0 going for newbies…but for the bb veterans maybe bb 2.0 can be more about individually created tracks according to genre bb 2.0 would basically be artists making their own samples for their own unique track…idk just an idea I had do what you think is best but generally the take away is that

Maybe there should be a bb 2.0 to keep it going.

Cheers good luck guise.


#165

@bfk @bbb really I was looking for your input more on the voting for yourself matter, we’re already pursuing a plan as far as the BB’s generally.

Making MORE BB’s isn’t going to help boost participation, it’ll just mean we’ll have the low participation we have split across two BB’s, that won’t work.


#166

Ok I should of read the posts…sorry…as for voting life stuff has happened which is influencing my activity on the forum…all I can say is good luck guys. :^/


#167

One of the more practical reasons that worry me about being able to vote for yourself is that’s it’s mostly just the participants voting and if we start voting for ourselves then who’s gonna vote for the others? Also it diminishes possible hullaballoos of strategic voting, depending on weather you really want to win or maybe you really don’t want to win. It’s more in the spirit to make it less about how you think other tracks stack up against yours but it’s just system of appointing a new person to create the next BB.


#168

I’m not opposed to adding a rule to have people vote for someone other than themselves.

Any final comments before we consider it settled?


#169

Before you read this, sorry if this has already been discussed or is posted elsewhere in this thread.

Hey, not to derail the conversation about voting, but I wanted to get peoples opinion regarding samples and battle rules.

I have decided to make some sample packs, both for myself and so that if and when I ever find myself winning a battle, I will have a sample pack ready to go. (Since there is a chance i will not have a good opportunity to throw one together quickly due to work and other potential life things if i ever end up winning one).

My question is around what people may find more interesting, as I would want it to be fun and challenging for as many people as possible. I will of course try to make samples interesting in general, but I’m wondering specifically about number of samples provided and number and strictness of rules.

Here is a quick poll, If you want to participate, please just select the one closest to what you would ideally want out of a beat battle.

For a beat battle I would like the host to provide:

  • Strict Rules and 1-5 samples
  • Strict Rules and 5-10 Samples
  • Strict Rules and 10+ samples
  • Loose Rules and 1-5 Samples
  • Loose Rules and 5-10 samples
  • Loose Rules and 10+ samples
  • I don’t give a fuck, stop talking and let’s battle!

0 voters

If you have any comments you want to add, please share them

I realize that the host is free to do whatever they want, but maybe if we can measure peoples expectations we can get some more participants. Or maybe not, IDK, either way, I think it will be interesting to learn a little more about what people prefer.

Thanks for taking the time.
:spider:


#170

I know @7asid has spoken against having many samples in the past, and I agree with that. Having the sample packs be less extravagant provides a better focus, and you have to think about how you’re going to use the samples. I know not all of our bb’s have been like that, but I do think less is more generally. in the area of 5-10 is good, I’d say not more than 15.

As far as the rules, I put a vote in for “strict”. Ideally, the rules should offer clear expectations, while not being so over the top as to be detrimental to putting together a track, in my opinion.


#171

I definitely like 5-10 samples, and I think the packs should be kind of balanced. By that I mean, it should have a few different types of samples, and a few different quality levels.

In other words, I like to have something tonal, melodic, percussive, and field recordings in there. But, I think only a few of the samples should be really good lol. It’s nice to have at least one sample that won’t require a massive amount of tweaking in order to make something useful from. LIke maybe a single note from an instrument, or a little beat that sounds good. This way if someone is pressed for time, they can at least get something rolling quickly. also, it makes it more likely that all the submissions will share some common tones.

At the same time, I think it’s good to have a couple of shitty/funny samples, to keep things fun. I am also a big fan of using youtube videos downloaded as mp3’s for this.

But it’s not a super huge deal either way. I can deal with less or more samples.

With rules, again I like some balance. Maybe one rule that’s pretty darn specific, and then a couple more chiller ones for flavor. If the rules are too lax, I don’t feel as motivated because I have to spend more time figuring out what I’m gonna do. The limitations is part of the appeal. On the other hand, if the rules are too much of a pain, I might not even have the time to throw something together heh.

Hope that helps man. I’m sure you’ll win a bunch if you keep doing em, so I’m looking forward to your bb’s.


#172

Thanks for the feedback and additional comments guys, I appreciate it.

I know I keep coming back to the Beat Battles now because they are fun and a good creative and technical exercise, so hopefully with those insights myself and others will be able to maximize those qualities as future hosts.


#173

I was actually writing up an official updated boiler plate/rule base for the BB’s in a document recently, and specifically I was thinking about the number of samples that ought to be in a pack.

I like sample packs that cover all the bases. Bass, rhythm, leads, drums/percussion, vocals, fx, maybe some melodic elements.

I like having more loops as opposed to single notes/one-shots. My start in music production was taking existing loops and cutting them up to make them more interesting, that’s how I got started in music, so I love working like that. To me, it makes it more interesting when you get something completely different from an original melody or chorus line, and it still sounds amazing. Like DJ’s, beat juggling a line and making some cool cut of it. I personally love that part of the challenge of it.

I like having one-shots for percussive elements and stabs, and occasionally notes of an instrument. I don’t do a lot of sampling where I make a melodic instrument tho, or map some samples to a keyboard. I’m more of a DJ in that sense, where I’d rather find a melody in a sample, groove with it, and/or cut it up into some new bar, then add in sounds or things here and there on top and approach it from the mix side.

So, a mix of full loops, as in, one or two or four bars of a melody or progression or interlude or whatever you like, then some one shots as well I think is a balanced mix.


#174

IMO sample packs can be pretty much like “choose your difficulty”. Bigger packs provide more options while small ones are a bit of hardcore mode. Pack shouldn’t be focused towards having a full bundle (pads, bass, drums, etc…) too much. This really needs to be up to whoever compiles it so person should feel free to include anything he wants, really. It could be just a 2-3 minutes of glitch audio jam or screaming into mic for 5 hours that doesn’t define any instrument at all because why not, he’s the host. Variety like that is cool and if you include interesting rules things can go wild. And I feel rules matter more than sample pack. If BB makes you think outside the box that’s a success.


#175

I don’t remember what I’ve said, I might’ve said I enjoy the challenge of bending fewer samples into what you need for the track but as the BB’s have continued I started to see it as a more malleable thing with the host having the option to “shake things up” by trying something different than the most recent BB themes/samples/3rules and doing their own spin on things. I’ve personally done everything from hosting very few samples to multiple folders with an abundance of samples.


#176

Have to agree with this. Surely that’s part of the perks of the winner, getting to make the rules and choose the samples for the next battle.


#177

I personally am not as much of a fan of the packs where it’s just impossible to find your basic musical elements; bass, rhythm, percussion, stuff like that. Like, when you have to make a bass sound out of a pencil lightly tapping against a window or something, stuff like that to me is just more hard from than it is opening up to new creative avenues. lol like was it @Tsachi who just recently did the BB where we were supposed to make melodies out of drum sounds? lol I mean, there were actually melodic pieces that we got to use for melody, and percussive pieces that we got to use for percussion, which is how I approached it, but imo, that’s when it goes a bit too far.

It’s ok for BB’s to be challenging, but I like to feel it’s still possible to make something good out of something lol.

idk if anyone here ever used the site www.acidplanet.com. This was way back in the day, in the early 00’s. I posted there in 2001-2009 or something like that. The site’s gone now, or at least, it’s been completely transformed from what it’s original intent was, but it was this music community for people who used the ACID Music software to upload their music to and have other people listen, and they had music charts and stuff like that.

But, on this site, they had two things I really liked. One was where every two weeks or month or something, they offered these “8-packs”, which were collections of 8 samples that were picked from different ACID loop libraries that you could download for free and make stuff with. The second was their remix competitions, where they’d feature an artist’s song (earlier on they had big names like Madonna, Beastie Boys, and David Bowie, but towards the end it was like T.aT.u., and just random smaller artists you’d never really heard of). They’d assemble a bunch of loops and samples from the song, and you’d use those to make a remix of the song, and usually they’d offer prizes for the winners and everything.

I guess my vision of the Beat Battles is kind of like that, where you can download this small set of samples, and you use them to make a mix with. Like, usable samples from a production standpoint, while also providing interesting parameters to make a mix in. So, I guess I’m less about the BB’s where it’s something super-challenging, and I’m more for things like, “produce this in a minor key”, or “make an ambient track that goes into a hip hop section at the end”, or “built a song that starts fast and ends slow”, things like that that limit you to compositionally but not to the extent that you’re trying to force a hi hat to sound like a sub or something like that.

I don’t think packs have to include EVERY element, but I think it should provide at least the fundamentals, like bass, drums, and some kind of rhythm maybe.

As far as quality, I like having as good of quality samples as possible, meaning, from a technical standpoint, as well as from a production standpoint like, drums that are in time, melodies in tune, etc. I mean, it’s fun to have something just super odd, like the battle before last where there was the recording of someone singing just horribly, I thought that got points for being unusual. For me tho, nothing demotivates me than samples that just aren’t exciting, or are poorly played. Granted, anyone can be the host, so it’s understandable that we get different quality samples, but I get more excited about doing a track when they are of good material, which of course, can be subjective, but samples where you are instantly inspired rather than having to do a ton of processing on them just to have them resemble something musical, to me is more fun. I don’t like the BB’s being about salvaging a recording.

Maybe we could start a second BB where we just restore old recordings into samples lol

Finally, I don’t think the number of samples should be too extravagant. When it gets to the point that the battle pack is essentially an entire CD’s worth of samples, that for me gets too much. I understand that host has reign, but I think the number of samples generally lean towards fewer samples. Having like 500 samples is overkill. I don’t mind doing samples where one sample is an entire song, but I think the samples should generally be like the number of samples one person would use in a single song, and not be an entire catalog’s worth.


#178

Wasn’t it you, I think it was for BB100. It was when we were discussing what samples to include, and whether to just open the archives and let people use whatever they like, I thought I recalled you responding rather strongly that the samples pack should be very few, otherwise tracks could be too different.


#179

It’s vaguely ringing a bell. I definitely don’t think a large abundance or unlimited samples(archive) as a general rule is the right call either. I think it’s good having it as a shifting thing to the hosts discretion. I find having the host handpick and provide the samples, curating them to the theme and custom rules naturally limits them to a certain extent and if their theme is better served by having more or less samples it’s good that they have the wiggle room for that. So to put it simply, I don’t think we need to change anything regarding samples at this stage.

Here’s something else that might be cool to discuss though: In terms of having the BB’s be more welcoming or accessible versus challenging in their own particular way that demarcates it’s “unique” spin on the beat battle game , a bigger question is weather we want to keep it a strictly sampling/resampling challenge or would introducing a limited use of DAW or physical instruments might shake things up a little.
When I host, I can be loose about it sometimes, I’ve sometimes allowed an instrument to be used and I’ve allowed the use of your own voice or copyright free acappellas in the fine print of almost all of my beat battles. To my memory no one’s ever taken me up on the voice thing though lol, and also no one’s ever complained about it. Other people have sporadically allowed or required the use of specific or open instruments in their themes also and it’s usually been at least interesting. I don’t know if I mean to make a rule about any of this but I find the freedom for the host to go wild and weird if they choose to has been healthy for the BB’s and I’d like to encourage it.

Remember when it was all specific genre themes for awhile? That was equal parts inspiring and frustrating sometimes.

God, I ramble don’t I


#180

I was mistaken! I guess it was @aSSerbik who was saying that:

my b @7asid


#181

I guess I’m just thinking of like BB86, when we had like an entire volume of samples lol. Don’t get me wrong, I was stoked to acquire a large library for free, but I felt it was a little overwhelming.


#182

Sorry, going off on a tangent but it just crossed my mind, the BB archive is currently offline as I moved apartments and my current apartment’s network is behind some firewalls and routers that I don’t have access to so I can’t share a public link.

I still am downloading the files however and keeping them backed up, and if anyone wanted a certain pack or what have you I can get you them, just let me know.