It’s not direct Jung moreso an intro to jung I wasn’t aware of Jung interviews will do some googling.
Also western spirituality like the memes that have 555 or whatever are a partially nfluenced derivation of some Jungian ideas
The philosophy thread (reminder philosophy is not politics nor conspiracy theories)
psyber
#245
Yeah there’s some on YouTube, a long-form interview too – he’s fairly old there, but he’s still so bloody sharp and quick.
Able to recall old memories with speed and ease!
psyber
#246
Hmm I think actually there’s just the one long-form interview with him looking for it.
Easy to find but I’ll link it here anyway.
psyber
#248
Meant to say, I Watched A Clockwork Orange last weekend – it’s a fucking excellent film!
Relating to the earlier discussion here I don’t think their form of medicine was very effective haha.
I think if this were to be done, it’d need to be advanced neuroscience based medicine, combined with some kind of AI-driven lie-detector, and probably also emotion-detectors that correlate true emotional responses with the agreed expected outcomes, that detects this by looking at patterns of activation in the brain, however, only with the continued consent of the individual – that would seem to filter out individuals who are trying to game the system.
These technologies are one’s that could be seriously abused, however, the technology will come about one way or another – we’ll just have to hope that we can do enough collectively to put in place strong enough systemic safeguards against this kind of exploitation.
However, we all know how likely it is that this will be a perfect solution.
At least the potential good such technology could offer might partly pay back the cost of its invention.
bfk
#249
Reading about the Anima The feminine aspect of a man…and the animus The masculine aspect of a woman.
Not going to get all gender bender…or existential…
My own conclusions from reading Jung is that an imbalance of the Anima, the animus, the shadow, and other aspects of the Self can lead to serious problems in a lot of areas.
But also depends on the lens you use to look at things.
bfk
#250
Came across something interesting when reading Jung…
The idea of Synchronicity which is the acausal connection that exists between, people, places, and things.
Also the relationship between the psyche and the quantum realm
1roomstudio
#251
Lots of psychological layers in A Clockwork Orange 
The character Alex is clearly Evil… yet by the end of the film you sympathize with him after seeing the effects of a well meaning Society on his Free Will… in changing his reaction to Evil thoughts and deeds with an inescapable revulsion… they also stripped him of his one connection to humanity… his love of Music.
Heavy stuff… it had a deep effect on me at the tender age of 13 
psyber
#252
I neglected to mention but I enjoyed that aspect of it. I’m going to watch it again soon, I was quite tired when I watched it and have forgotten half of it already and struggle to reflect on it.
I do recall however that it is very clear that the stories of Kubrick getting the most out of his actors are visibly clear in this movie.
The way some of those women allowed themselves to be groped so violently – I can’t imagine the experience of having Kubrick demand retake after retake, egging on the actors to be more aggressive and the women to be more distraught.
psyber
#253
I had a thought a while back about a tragic yet absurdly comedic situation…
A young boy forced into slave labour in a factory making clothes for middle-class Westerners grows up into a homeless man and receives a charity package containing a pair of shoes that he was forced to make all those years ago.
To recognise a mark you made on them as a child, and to feel the sorrow of that moment, holding in your hands the product of your sacrifice, ragged and merely donated to the destitute as valued and missed as loose change falling out of the ripped pocket of a fat middle-manager’s suit.
bfk
#255
Nature vs nurture…
Some are good samaritans and
Some are born just wanting to create choas.
Others are changed and become bad or fall from grace for a variety of reasons.
And others change for the better.
So nature or nurture is it a mistake to generalize, or percieve the reality of the human condition in terms of nature vs nurture?
I think the nature verses nurture arguement is an oversimplification…
Cause we make our own choices according to circumstances…disregarding determinism vs free will debate…cause it is another tangent.
Whether or not we buy the potato life is finite.
Whether or not we do good or bad life is finite.
We either make our own finite life into hell or we put in the work to make the best out of life.
What if a person doesnt know any better…
They learn from the experience and move forward.
But the why does someone choose to create chaos…
As to why someone chooses to be a good samiritan…
Depends on the individual.
No one is psychic.
psyber
#256
I’m feeling oddly biblical tonight, arrogantly parabolic, religiously atheist, and determinism is my deity – isn’t that just an insane contradiction in terms, yet another embodiment of the archetype of the man who seeks wisdom but finds only lines in sand, and yet speaks cogniscient of his own delusion, unable to escape the grapple of his unwilling and wilful will to force parts of a round whole into a square category?
To your point: that assumes freedom of will to begin with.
If Bob’s circuitry is such that his brain’s incentives and motivations necessarily presuppose a will to self-destruct, and there exists no possible state of the system that would lead to a stable fundamental shift in interpretative schemata enabling him to overcome his intrinsic bias, then mechanically and mathematically such a state is an impossibility without an external force altering the wiring of the system beyond the scope of its natural adaptive capacity, effectively changing the rules.
There are always logically consistent and consequent laws at place, even if to us they seem to be random or beyond systematisation.
Those who apparently choose chaos do not necessarily do so out of a pure and internally unanimous decision to invoke their own suffering, rather it is emergent out of a web of self-deceit resultant out of the recursive integration of unconscious and intuitive self-deceiving introspection on the consequences of actions borne out of that same unconscious and intuitive self-deceit.
Happiness is emergent out of the navigation of the mean geodesic through the space of all forces that act on us over time, but that presupposes the system is capable of recognising and following those arcs and remaining undeflected by the mirage of a line of best fit in the superposition of tangents we are fool to.
bfk
#257
Yes it is an insane contradiction…trying to force a round whole into a square category…
I could have worded it better…i put too much bullshit and failed to simplify my question.
“Would a person still be a good person if they grew up in a third world country as opposed to a first world country”
But anyways…my thought poop is thought poop.
But as to your position…i agree with some of it…but its a little detached.
psyber
#258
Haha yeah–some days I just feel like speaking in funny ways and finding an obscure way of wording something.
Though I suspect you already think as much… if they do not meet the typical standards of Western ethics, then from a Western metric: no, because Western society’s typical ideas of a good person may differ, and even internally there is much disagreement between various classes.
There’s a gradient of overlap that can exist between these different subgroups (really, we should consider each and every definition in this comparison, but the gain in accuracy reduces with increase in precision, so we’ve got to be practical nihilists and choose a bloody line), but depending on the degree of the overlap, the likelihood of equilibria may be enough to sufficiently meet our metrics of wellbeing.
As an aside, therein lies the inverse of the argument against ethical/moral diversity.
On the matter of why Western society’s ideas of a good person are right: I don’t think they are, and they can’t all be together anyway! It’s just what we are, and it is in this way we are all practical nihilists without realising it.
That isn’t to say what we should or should not change. We do, it is what it is, and we each play our part in shaping it, for better or for worse… for whatever that’s worth! 
psyber
#259
Worlds in a point, timeless, stretch red from white
Hurled into the ages, endless specks shed their light
When the eternal sun sets, and all is said’n done
No fool nor material unrest, no fall save this shall come
The long winter falls upon us tonight, and for this winter is night, we will not last the night
But will first light crack wide new life in the collapse of the boundless dark?
Only God knows, and God is dead
bfk
#260
Communism/socialism = the tribal life of idigineous peoples like the native americans
Nietszchi-ism in societal structures = sparta/medieval feudalism/modern society.
Democracy = athens
Republic = rome before ceasar
America = democratic republic.
Me:
Soceity changes with the influence of other societies and is a constantly evolving thing.
Dune:
Human nature…the elites, the tradespeople, and the commoners.
Nature:
Laughs at human powers of perception and observation.
bfk
#261
I was partially wrong…always go to the source for more info…
Dont believe twitter fights and political news media bullshit.
psyber
#262
“We are the ones that have to define what justice looks like.” – Tarana Burke (in the video @bfk posted above)
No, that’s really a bad idea. There needs to be discussion between all classes of society about these matters, and there needs to be accountability and resistance to those who seek vengeance rather than justice.
Like a lot of things, what can start out with love of the oppressed can easily turn into hatred of the oppressors.
This is why impartial judgements, impartial juries – impartial parties in general – exist, to mediate the balance between emotion and reason. When people are emotionally invested in something, it is far too easy to lose sight of what the most important thing is: in this case, the solution that benefits the most.
Which includes a system of inquiry that is as fair to the accused as it is to the accuser, there can be no bias toward one or the other, as until one or the other has been shown to be guilty beyond all reasonable doubt, there can be no sentence.
The voices of everybody need to be heard, and the needs of all must be weighed against the needs of the few, including those of the oppressors themselves, for we need to understand their mindsets and how to better prevent this kind of behaviour from occurring as much as we need to hear the plight of the oppressed so that we may take the most reasonable action.
At the level of a general perspective on society, we are forced to take some sort of utilitarian approach and compare numbers, otherwise there is no way we can possibly make a decision that is as externalised from human judgement as much as practically possible, and if we don’t do that, then every decision carries the danger of being emotionally motivated, and its not like there aren’t many examples of this happening in the real world!
Tarana didn’t sound like her love for the oppressed had turned into hatred of the oppressors, but for many others it has already done so.
bfk
#263
Its not so much what is being said…
The why is more important than the what is said.
And the why i think is clearly stated in the video.