Neurodivergent/neuroatypical people on board?


#1

Hi

I am discovering again my life, since I know I have Asperger syndrome.

And for once, it has been a very, very comfy winter (besides some shit virus and bad politics). No life crisis. No random shitstorm happened because I did some thing that was absolutely not compatible with autism. I feel great, thanks to this, since september (since I’m aware of this), and this is the longest “yay” period of my life. I’m still broke and still very precarious but it is, for the first time of my life, manageable, I don’t have to fight again myself every fucking day because I’m not aware of my condition.

Since very few of my friends are neurotypical, I was wandering about this place, since computer-oriented activities are great for me and other neurodivergent people I know.

Are you/Do you know neuroatypical/Asperger people ?

Some things you wanna share ?

Come on mate, cookies here :shushing_face:


#2

I dont know you but I feel like some cases are an overdiagnosis of people…like that kid who’s a pain in the ass to the teacher so the teacher tells the parent the kid has add and the parent believes the teacher so the normal pain in the ass kid is forced to take medication…when the problem could be resolved with running around outside nonstop for 30 min and consuming less sugar…

I’d say go get some therapy before labeling yourself with aspergers…I get that it’s a spectrum but honestly I’d say it may be more related to your own personal perception in regards to how you respond and react to life situations…

I disagree w/ this thread because next thing you know being an asshole can become a medical condition or conversely normal people might require medication like prozac just because of ptsd they had just because their boss yelled at them or because they experienced some bs and overreacted…

I knew a few people that got slammed with some bs diagnosis because they either made an enemy with connections…or because of a string of experiencing shitty circumstances…and their diagnosis are used to label them and treat them as subhuman

My advice dont let morons bully you into believing that you are subhuman…half the time they are just making you eat shit because they dont want to eat the shit that they themselves created


#3

Ok, I understand you have a lot of anger to spread about this

But, like you say, you speak about “some cases”, “that kid”, “they”, “a few people”.

I don’t know you but my primary intent was to share about something that had been a long quest and a big and painful struggle with my own existence since I’m born (and more these past few years after a complete burnout), very documented and correlated, to eventually discuss peacefully with like-minded people about a common topic of interest.

I’m ok with your experience, I mean, this is a lot of anger… but ok. Still I don’t understand why you’d advise me on not letting morons say something or treat me in that weird “subhuman” way you describe…

Man, I’m so lost in what you said and why you said it

And I just don’t need this advice, I’m ok with everything that had been done, cause it’s a relief and I have a better life now :wink:


#4

Ok, cool I’ll just keep my perspective on this too myself, because i dont want to spread anger…and like you said your good.


#5

I have a cousin with Asperger’s but that’s about it.


#6

@Negazul - I was diagnosed with Asperger’s when I was young.

@bfk - I agree with you regarding over-diagnosis. It reminds me of the present tendency to label any who use manipulation, or interject subtle put-downs occasionally, a narcissist.

However, as I’m sure you’re aware, there are statistically discernible groups of traits, the culmination and observation of which constitute the diagnosis.

The key here is that these labels are not be thrown around willy nilly, nor are they to be haphazardly used as an excuse to sweep social infractions under the carpet.

There’s a limit, of course, which is entirely subjective, but on which there tends to be an approximate consensus - we are after all, human, and live in (mostly) democratic, and (mostly… rough edges) civilised societies. If somebody is clearly, from even the way they speak, that they are severely disabled, and innocently says something, conventionally highly inappropriate, we tend to be quite forgiving, and rightly so.

However, there’s also the grey area of what do to when minor infractions are committed by individuals quite functional, yet possessive of a genuine diagnosis. How is it to be discerned that which emerges out of a lack of understanding, a misunderstanding, or an alternate mode of perception, from that which is fully intentional.

How is it to be known if, in that precise moment, they were, or were not, capable of conducting themselves in a manner which would be deemed appropriate?

That’s the tricky part. That’s where we do, indeed, need skilled and knowledgeable teachers to know and understand troubled children, to know their patterns, their behaviours, to be able to intuit what is and what is not intentionally counter to etiquette.

I was lucky to have had such a teacher, for the most part. Looking back on my past, I had great difficulty interpreting the social dynamic, picking up on social cues, understanding sarcasm, and understanding banter.

However, for those who are capable of the discipline necessary to overcome some of their neurological obstacles, it is important not to allow them the idea that it is OK to behave like that. Disciplinary measures must be enforced, though they must also be tailored to the psychology of the individual, where needs must. You have to be careful about how you go about punishment, as conventional tactics will likely break down completely, and result in more extreme behaviour, or the prolonged suffering of the child.

It’s about helping the individual find balance at the appropriate intersection between the needs and challenges of the individual, and the needs of society.

Related side-story: after taking far too many psychedelics far too frequently, I experienced a mild psychosis. I would trip constantly. That intensity of the trip was felt throughout the day, every day, until even now, though in a diminished form. It fundamentally altered my way of thinking, my perception of myself, and my understanding of body language - it all became hard to miss. It shifted something in my brain which allowed me to connect more deeply to my intuition, on a more conscious level. It, for the most part, allowed me to transcend the limits of my brain’s wiring. I became conscious of various behaviours of mine of which I had not, hitherto, so clearly identified.

It’s all wibbly wobbly mindey wimey stuff, and as such, difficult (technically, impossible) to communicate the experience - only by analogy or reference to common experience, can I do so.

The evidence on that is sketchy. It’s a superstition (*more on that).

Edit: The evidence is perhaps not so sketchy. Take a look at @metaside’s comment below.

(*) Superstition… hmm. Humans, for the most part, aren’t very good at identifying real correlations between events. It reminds me of that idea that different drinks yield different effects. That’s mostly bunk in the objective sense, but in the subjective sense it certainly is real. It’s about alcohol concentration, and rate of consumption. However, what exactly gives us this idea? It FEELS like the drink makes the difference.

Our mode of perception is often determined by our expectations. The minutiae of perceived experience tend to relate more to our expectations, which tend to relate to whatever image, archetype, or iconic representation, is salient in our psyche, or is evoked by the experience itself. Our expectations of experience guide experience, which guides our expectations. It’s a feedback look. That’s why people can become so convinced of some superstition or another, because its a self-reinforcing system, unless disciplined application of critical thinking is used to filter the inferences we take from experience. It is also possible to override the associative relationships formed with retrospective, disciplined application of method. That’s why science works, and why it progresses.

@Negazul - one final note, I don’t interpret any real “anger” so to speak. From what I’ve read of his posts, it seems to be mostly a style of writing. It’s just concerned, assertive, sugar-free articulation of opinion.


#7

Alright, I’ll come out of the closet. I have high functioning autism / asperger’s. I’ve gone through the denial, self-loathing, and pain of existence with it all. I’ve had many more professionals tell me I don’t have it than those who do, I’ve had people close to me tell me that they think I’m using it as an excuse and everything else. It’s also been hard getting diagnosed at the age of 25, so I was basically treated like shit as a kid because everyone thought I could control it.

I’m quiet about it because of the reaction I get from everybody I know. “You seem normal” isn’t a comforting phrase when you have issues with every single social aspect of your life. It’s like being an alien.

I’m glad to see somebody else here has this though. That’s awesome :slight_smile:


#8

I would say the science is not completely in yet, but there is some indication that sugar plays a role in some form. The media articles you linked to both refer to a meta-study from 25 years ago, but there is a lot of new evidence published every year, for instance:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12031-020-01496-w (2020)
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/13/7/678/pdf (2016)
https://synapse.koreamed.org/DOIx.php?id=10.4162/nrp.2011.5.3.236&vmode=FULL (2011)

We sadly don’t know as much as we would like to know.


#9

Boom. Thanks for the links.


#10

I forgot the extreme playing of video games leading to a hindering of social development…

That and maybe geography…cause mercury poisoning and eating plastic cheese…


#11

Well most of us will be neurotypical but I don’t think I would call myself that though. I am 100% sure I hav a schizoid personality disorder. I haven’t been officially tested for it but I would bet my life on it. There’s also a thing called Alexithymia which I believe affects me and it is to do with expression. I actually have an ASD diagnosis but I never agreed with it. I took that diagnosis as a personal attack, an attack on me and my existence. It was another way for the world to punish me for existing. They gave a name for my personality and called it a disability. My mom got me a special disability bus pass and one time, I cut it up then threw it away, that is how much I was against it. I was too normal to relate to aspies but too different to relate to normal people. Being in this weird in between was hell becauz I didn’t know how to explain it at the time when I needed to the most. That ASD label has stained my name in my medical records. It is a blemish that makes me want to retch.


#12

I think you nailed how most of the neurotypical world sees the condition, but I think you’d be surprised to find more shy / quieter people who like to keep to themselves with the condition rather than the opposite. A lot of people confuse it with ADHD, but it’s basically the exact opposite with equally neurotic shit going on.

Both types can appear out of line at times for different reasons, but it’s usually not blatant asshole-ism. I’ve gotten the shit kicked out of me by people with BPD in my life, so in comparison I’ll take the awkward guy who blurts out weird shit over somebody literally kicking my face in any day.

It has some really unique upsides though, so I’m not going to pretend like I’m some victim. It’s just a little hard to gel in a world with normal people when you’re clearly not. We’re all human at the end of the day.


#13

I have ADHD, does that count?

It sucks.


#14

I didn’t know what to expect, I’m happy to read your posts.

@bfk - I overreacted. Overdiagnosis is a thing, like wrong diagnosis are a thing. I think I didn’t integrate the rest of the world in my answer to you, sorry.
The closer in my own experience is reversed tho : no diagnosis at all, because my parents thought I was just in my thoughts. And, my crisis are internal, I always felt a deep need to break everything and everybody because my perceptions were saturating but I was afraid it was a bad thing and it was wrong. Then I discovered drums, and I sticked to that instrument as it permits me to calm down. I mean, drums and noise music, it’s a living dream !

It still leaves me with numerous internal traits. I never met autistic people before this year, now I begin to hear about autism/diagnosis stories and it is sad to see that, like you said, they are sometimes/often not treated like humans. Some think it is a disease, or a madness. I hope the world will evolve in the way we consider difference between each other. But I am not confident.

@moodorf I’m curious about how you see him, and how he lives his life.

And a beloved friend of mine has ADHD. I don’t know if it “counts”, I don’t know the borders of neuroatypical wirings.

@psyber - Hey, what you said rang a big bell. I didn’t know how to call it but… Back in 2018, after a complete burnout, I was destroyed, because of a lot of things. I lived in a sort of alternate reality that year. My girlfriend (ex, fortunately) was a mythomaniac. She told me things about my life, me and my friends I thought were true. Big things, things you build around. And I was completely stressed out because of exhausting jobs and a house where people threw parties all the week. And I was taking ketamine to bear with pressure. Then, my burnout, then we broke, then… I took LOADS of ketamine. 1 or 2 gram a day. I drank directly to the bottle a few times. Spoiler : it wasn’t healthy. But I needed it.

Today, I think I did some depersonalization and derealization, ketamine aside. But this is also something that ket does. So I think it made things way worse. I became highly paranoiac for more than a year, and loads of things changed, I couldn’t be the guy I always was. I changed, I was in shock, and it went that way for a year and a half. And today, parts of my personality didn’t came back. Some were bad, so I’m happy, some were good, so, I feel stolen.

And like you said, exactly :

I couldn’t say it better as it was exactly what happened to me. I mean, word for word (french expression, I dunno if it’s ok in english).

I don’t know if I went thru a psychosis but my reality was shifted. When I remember things I did and how I lived at this time, even after I stopped ketamine (I eventually ran out, so I took speed instead for two months before I ran out of money - great idea, I know), I just don’t recognize myself, how I think, how I live, how I interact with people, and I was completely irrational all the time. Thank you for sharing, I will dig into that.

@xSANTAxDURSTx

I was treated like shit as a kid, even I and people didn’t know I had Asperger. I was not working and still having results at school, I did not understand social rules, people didn’t understand how I was functioning, that was a very bad moment. I was an alien.

I relate, now when I say I have autism, people treat me like I’m weak. So I say I can beat them at their favorite game even if I have no training. Which is often true (with casual gamers). But, that, is something that fades when people learn to know me. Because they consider my brain and how it’s wired, and they notice I can do a lot of things they can not do. NTs and Aspergers are complementary, like introverts and extroverts are complementary. The day people start to figure we have to help each other and not compete all the time is very far away from today, but I hope such a day will exist in our future.

But I still get the “you don’t look like an autist”, thanks to some movies, TV, bad articles and other bullshit.

@bfk about hindering of social development : what about multiplayer games ? I mean, these things helped me to overcome social stress, to get past it. I don’t know if there are studies that say it, but being part of a team, having responsabilities in a game, that helped me to build social-related skills in real life. Like trying hard in a very hard game helped me to try hard in real life in a very hard situation, and to cope with it. If I never could play these video games, I think I would still not dare to try outside things in my life. I always needed a sandbox. Non-negociable with myself.

@OuterSpace That’s sad. And I suppose going thru another diagnosis period to have a “right” diagnosis would be a no-go, because it’s a pain in the ass…

@metaside Thanks for the links. Sugar plays a role in behavior of children (even adults), that’s a fact. I don’t eat a lot of sugar because it shifts my behavior, I become more agressive, I’m stimulated but not in a way I like. I wonder about behavioral development, I’ll read your links.


#15

I don’t really know much about him since he lives about 50 miles from me, I see him very rarely. I’m not even 100% sure how old he is. He just seems kind of…detached whenever I see him. Nice enough guy though.


#16

Unfortunately we’re probably a long way from there, since loads of people seem to think autistic kids just outgrow their brains once they become adults, or that there’s not even a complex spectrum to it all.

Has your perspective changed since befriending other ND’s? I’ve heard that can be a really positive experience since the usual communication barriers cease to exist, but I’m always surrounded by NT’s.


#17

Yes, that’s a label and an unexplainable disease. Oh, did you read about Asperger being caused by MMR vaccine ? The level of bullshi of these people is astonishing. There is an old study from 1998, and twenty years laters it is still a thing.

My perspective changed, for the better. I don’t feel like an alien, I feel that we are aliens, and that is way better.


#18

Oh yeah, the MMR thing was debunked but the crazy part about all of it is that people on the spectrum tend to have gut / brain axis disruptions and irregularities in their gut bacteria for some reason. Bacteria from another planet perhaps?

Being raised by antivaxxers though, I never got the MMR or any other vaccines, so it’s bullshit.


#19

I’ve been away for a while… still lurking a bit. I got a “summary since your last post” email and this thread caught my attention… I read the whole thread … interesting :thinking:

When I grew up … there was no such thing (or most people were not aware of such things) you were either “normal” or clearly “disabled.” When I was old enough to have children the “ADD” fad took hold and a close friend had a son that was “diagnosed.” I was outraged because the diagnosis was based on adults claiming that “he can’t focus.” Bullshit! The boy was a genius and would focus like a laser on anything he was interested in… and conversely would relentlessly reject any attempts to distract him from his focus. That relentless focused rejection of adults attempts to get him to focus on what they wanted got him a diagnosis and a drug regimen. He turned out alright… but some of that spark was lost.

Don’t get me wrong… I have, over the years, come to understand that there is some value in this parsing of the variety of human experience and social interaction into various labels. The concept of “Spectrum” is, I believe, very useful; but is often misunderstood. An individual is not at a given “label” on the spectrum so much as their own individual range may incorporate certain aspects of some labels. The Spectrum is definitely not linear, like a rainbow :rainbow:

My point is we are more alike than different, so when we get hung up on our differences it is not healthy or useful… it causes pain and confusion… best to go run around outside for 30 minutes or so… and don’t blame it on the sugar! That energy just means you are ALIVE! and reveling in that miracle without self conscious doubt imposed by others.

So say I! :ghost:


#20

My brother is Asperger. I was 22 years old when My mother and my step dad started over. Me and my brother are close. I am grateful he is my family.