Greetings from THE NEW GUY

[SLAVE_XIV]

I am 35 years old and I make Industrial Music. I use FL Studio 20, and a bunch of Vst Pluginz. I was fascinated for many years about trying to challenge myself by making different songs to match different sub-genre’s of Industrial Music. And the more I did it, the more my sounds became more unique as I began mixing different elements together. I didn’t originally start with A DAW, about 12 years ago I bought my first music making program by cakewalk called Kinetic 2. There were no Vst Instrument or effects, what presets they decided were the only ones one could work with. It had one effect synthesizer, that everything you made would go through it to be altered, and they certainly had no automation. It did have some decent sounds, and I might be wrong but I think it was off of Kinetic 2 that Cakewalk went forth to create the Sonar series. Eventually I made the decision to go into making music with serious dedication, and that’s when I got FL studio 20 and Vst’s, etc.

Though my Industrial music does attempt many different sub-genre’s (Dark Industrial Metal, Symphony EDM Dubstep, Ethereal, even a psytrance track which of course is not Industrial my music typically has a darker theme to it. It took me years of learning, but I finally made an album. Then after making sure everything was the way I wanted it; I struggle to find a way to promote the album, for I’m sure there are great songs out there, that few have heard of. I thought that joining this forum would be my first step. I think getting to know people and interaction would be a great idea. I have never belonged to an Industrial forum, and I certainly am no expert like many here.

I have a controversy with the music I make. I am a follower of Christ, and my music is 90 percent instrumental. Yet to do what I could to encourage others the way I have been Inspired, I gave Christian/Christian themed names to the track. I don’t want to shove Christ down people’s throats, I think that’s been done overkill. Nor do I judge anyone or angrily snap when other people act the way they do. The controversy is among other “Christians” who usually hold the stigma that anything “Dark sounding” is from the devil, so therefore don’t really want to listen to it, and even condone it as devil worship, etc. On the other side, most people looking for Dark Industrial aren’t typically going to reach to listen to a track with a Christian title. Yet I knew this before I did it.

So I chose to just join this forum and talk music, and not “preach” on anyone. I have an Industrial Musician friend who has helped teach me to make music and is Trans. I don’t shudder or look twice at people’s language; I will still carry on the conversation normally.

I appreciate this chance to join with others on conversations and gain wisdom from people’s trials and success. Keep it real!

SLAVE_XIV

[White_Noise]

I’m christian too, but man the music is pure butt. Christian metal is apparently a thing though, so we’re not the only ones who feel that way.

If you want to get into promo, getting to know people around here isn’t a bad start. You could also consider Distrokid, they will help you get your album up on all the major services and they have other promotional tools as well.

[SLAVE_XIV]

I appreciate you reading and responding. That is something every one likes for the most part, and thanks for welcoming me.

As for Distrokid, I’m looking into it right after I paste this. When I have a chunk of time available I will be able to check more of this forum out in detail and give others the honor you have given me, to read and reply. I know how important friendly critic is to people.

[relic]

Welcome to the forum

[7asid]

Welcome to the forum! I’d like to note, I find your name somewhat insensitive, I don’t mean to start a political discussion, but have you considered that?

[makeuswhole]

You feel like using the word slave is insensitive?

Is there something contextual I’m missing or is it just the word itself?

[7asid]

Well there’s people still alive today who’s parents were slaves, it’s not very ancient history. The context being that stuff like BLM denotes shifting tides about our collective attitude towards our actions and the language we use and how we grow to think certain things are “ok” from a benevolent human being perspective and how willing we are to consider when challenged on the inherent benevolence or neutrality of those certain actions or words.

[7asid]

This is a sidey side note but I’m visiting my country of origin in eastern europe right now and the n-word is straight up official vernacular for black folk, not deemed to carry any connotations of bigotry, and it’s blowing my canadian friend’s minds. The culture lag is very interesting, but im sure upsetting to any visiting people of african descent.

[makeuswhole]

This is a sidey side note but I’m visiting my country of origin in eastern europe right now and the n-word is straight up official vernacular for black folk

First off, thats pretty crazy.

Now…

I know what you mean about the need to make sure our words are chosen carefully and methodically so as to not perpetuate ideas or concepts that are degrading to other humans, materialize them or downplay seriously heinous injustices and crimes that were done to a number of people over the course of human history. I’m with you on that.

That being said, I don’t think that this is one of those words that (necessarily) warrants concern. One reason is that the word slave has multiple meanings, it does not exclusively refer to humans unjustly subjugated to slavery and abuse in the united states or even humans over the course of history that have been the subject of the same demeaning atrocities. For instance you can be a “slave to the system” or could say that “we are just slaves to the wealthy elite and the banks”.

In some instance’s it is obviously wrong to use certain words depending on who you are, your intent and the context. I can’t think of a single instance where it would seem appropriate for (for instance) a white guy to say n*****. The word itself is a derogatory term used to specifically refer to a person of a particular color and because of history has very negative connotations. Unlike slave, I can’t think of a single instance where that could be used to refer to something else, conceptual or otherwise, whereas slave can be used to mean different things.

Now, I think that you can use the word slave in a negative or demeaning way, but I think the same goes for so many words that if we followed this idea to its logical conclusion, we would find ourself with an unnecessary small vocabulary as well as with a host of people ready to fly off their hinges when they hear a word that they don’t like, wether it is justified or not regardless of context.

As an example, the word bitch has often been a word used to target women. If not women, then it is used to describe a man or other person, who is weak, moody or has no stomach, and really, with the intent of making the target out to be feminine, like it is a bad thing. (that was a poor explanation, but hopefully you understand what I’m getting at with all of that). However this is not the only way the word is used and not it’s only meaning, and I think we need to make sure we’re considering meaning and intent with (some, not all) words. I think something has gone horribly off track in the fight for equality and justice if we being to focus on how a word offends us or seems inappropriate before we consider who, how and why.

Art (including music, track and album names, artist names and any other medium of artistic expression) is a place where people should be more free to express themselves (within reason, of course). These are ways that many of us tackle uncomfortable concepts, experiences and reflect on a multitude of things, perhaps including injustices and wrongs committed at the expense and towards others (but obviously not necessarily).

We don’t really know anything about @SLAVE_XIV, who they are, what their intentions are, and why they chose the name they did, and I think in this instance it doesn’t really matter (aside from a few edge cases, such as “I chose the name because I think 'merica needs some slaves again and I’m a 14 yo maga kid”. Obviously that would be fucked up, wrong, and worth condemning, but I doubt that is the reason and we also have no reason to think that the intention is anything of the sort).

Perhaps they feel’s like they’re a slave to the whim of the universe, or perhaps the name is a reflection on the injustices done to slaves, and that is something they are passionate about expressing. Maybe they were a slave for real in sex trafficking, or a forced laborer in another country, or maybe they feel like they’re passionate about making music expressing those things whether it happened to them or not.

I could go on and on listing examples like this. I just don’t see how it is helpful to make such an observation or assertion without knowing who you’re talking to. On its own, I think the word is pretty mild and meaningless and that there is not really any cause for concern or offense.

Sorry for the long post. Just to close, I will say that I am all for making positive changes in our language and that there is certainly a time and place for concern when individuals use certain words. We have a job to correct the mistakes of past generations that got it in our heads that some of these things that are “normal” are ok just because that’s how it’s always been. Lots of those “normal” things have caused many to exhibit implicit (and straight up blatant) bias when it comes to minorities or others that are just “different” in some way. We need to tear down and oppose the systems that allow these kinds of things to continue, a tall order for sure, and making changes to the language we use is a good way to start removing these ideas from the masses. We just need to make sure that our time is spent fighting the right things and not getting caught up in things that don’t matter or hold little significant weight in regards to that cause.

I didn’t mean to make a mess of THE NEW GUY’s post. If anyone for some reason wants top continue to have this conversation or has anything to say in response to my post, please feel free to message me directly (or reply here if we want to tatter this thread some more). I’m always open to having a conversation and feel things like this are important to discuss.

Much love

[7asid]

Thanks for a very thorough and civil take. I feel since we’ve opened the jar already, and I take responsibility for starting that, I’d like to continue in this thread. If mods would chose to move or delete this discussion, I completely understand.

I don’t see myself as the IDMF political correctness police and where I’m coming from with raising this point is just my personal sense of responsibility to try and be an ally where I can. I guess in this sense I appear to make a mountain out of a molehill but that isn’t my intention. It’s just the nature of human communication that differing points, with the aim to be understood, will blow up into big paragraphs and it seems like we’re making a big deal but really my point was to talk about this and spark some consideration. So i’m glad to have this convo, my apologies for it happening, not in the most appropriate place, but this is where I met @SLAVE_XIV, so this is where I said it.

I agree that context and intention matter when placing judgement on language. In fact, my assumption is no ill will on SLAVE_XIV’s part. Slave by itself can refer to many things. And this is kind of my point. There is no context to what SLAVE refers to. So in that sense as an artist alias it means none and all of the possible meanings at once. The root of all phrases including the word SLAVE in them still circles back to the concept of slavery. Without any context, and none was given, and maybe it still will be lacking in future uses of the alias, a word that may cause hurtful associations to not just a minority of people but a large community, exists with its full potential to cause that hurt.
Where do we draw the line? Anything could be a trigger to someone, it’s a slippery slope and if we police language like this it will only diminish. Sure, maybe. But that’s why it’s good to talk about it, to communicate instead of bottle up and simmer resentment. Language constantly morphs and adapts and words don’t disappear down the slippery slope but are constantly pushed up and down through discussion. So in response to your point that addressing possibly negligent issues is wasting energy on the wrong battle, I’ll say i don’t know what’s too small or big enough thing to address. I was compelled to address it and if I’m perhaps being pedantic, I’ll hear some opinions and go/grow from there. I didn’t set aside time in my planner to do social justice warrior stuff during this time, so in a practical sense I’m not wasting energy or time I would’ve otherwise spent on better targets. Surely I’d be doing more good actually engaging in solid activism but we do what we can and this is me doing that. Is it so bad to talk about the little things? I think discussing the small things we “good intentioned people” do to make things a little better is a maybe neglected and worthwhile endeavour. If my initial point spiralled into turning SLAVE into a pariah, getting him chased off the forum or anything like that, that would be unfortunate and not my intention. So I thank you for communicating your thoughts and challenging my post in a calm and detailed manner. You spoke up when something didn’t seem right to you.
I’d like to point out that i didn’t call on SLAVE to change their name, but invited them to share their thoughts or to consider the point if they haven’t yet. I’m curious about SLAVE’s thoughts or any POC members but really i just acted on the impulse to try my best to challenge injustices when I can and my only intention was to “say something”. @SLAVE_XIV I’m do not mean to attack you, I do mean welcome to the forum, and I am just curious about your thoughts on this.

[relic]

damn you guys lol, hell of an intro thread here…don’t let it scare you away new member…I promise 99% of the time we only bite when asked to first

[makeuswhole]

Thanks for a very thorough and civil take. I feel since we’ve opened the jar already, and I take responsibility for starting that, I’d like to continue in this thread. If mods would chose to move or delete this discussion, I completely understand.

I’m thankful for this reply. Not gonna lie, I was a bit worried about starting something that was going to get out of control. I don’t really have much to add, so i’ll address your specific posts where I have thoughts. Sorry in advance @SLAVE_XIV for hijacking your post again. haha!

So i’m glad to have this convo, my apologies for it happening, not in the most appropriate place, but this is where I met @SLAVE_XIV, so this is where I said it.

I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. i suppose this is how discussion happens.

I agree that context and intention matter when placing judgement on language. In fact, my assumption is no ill will on SLAVE_XIV’s part. Slave by itself can refer to many things. And this is kind of my point. There is no context to what SLAVE refers to. So in that sense as an artist alias it means none and all of the possible meanings at once. The root of all phrases including the word SLAVE in them still circles back to the concept of slavery. Without any context, and none was given, and maybe it still will be lacking in future uses of the alias, a word that may cause hurtful associations to not just a minority of people but a large community, exists with its full potential to cause that hurt.

I think this is the one and only paragraph in your post that I disagree with. Firstly, how can it mean “none” and “all” at the same time. If you don’t know the meaning that does not mean that it suddenly assumes all meanings or no meaning. You could assume that it means one thing or another, but that doesn’t mean that your inference is correct.

I understand that there are people who have experienced slavery directly and within just a few generations. It’s terrible, should have never happened, and we should make sure to take care of those people in the best way possible. However, I think that if you are an individual who experiences severe hurt, offense, or trauma simply by hearing or reading a word with little or no context, I think that there may be other underlying issues. I don’t think censoring the use of the word (I don’t think that’s what you’re suggesting be done, but I do think that is one of the outcomes of the train of thought you have and is the one I’m most concerned about at this time in this situation) regardless of context will really be helping that person, rather I think it will further reduce the ability to express and have discussions and prevent a person from developing coping mechanisms that are vital to navigating society. We should be digging further when that happens and saying or communicating things like “enslaving other people is wrong, and the history of the US and other countries is grotesque and immoral but saying or typing the word is not and isn’t necessarily an endorsement of actual slavery”.

Where do we draw the line?

It’s a valid question, and i guess is why I’m interested in having this conversation. I will say that i think the line is somewhere between intention and convention. Intention matters in regards to the words “slave” and “bitch”, there isn’t a default conventional use for those words without context, which comes from intention. The word n***** I would argue DOES have a default conventional meaning and it can be very harmful or aggressive. Even then, It’s not always the case and it can even be used as a way of communicating kinship of brotherhood (at least as far as I understand it), so I still think context matters greatly.

So in response to your point that addressing possibly negligent issues is wasting energy on the wrong battle, I’ll say i don’t know what’s too small or big enough thing to address.

This is a good and fair point. None of us of course have all the answers and knowledge from the get go about what things to focus on, we have to figure it out. I appreciate this and accept it

Is it so bad to talk about the little things?

No, it’s not bad to talk about the little things, It did however seem preachy and a bit presumptuous, especially since we’ve already discussed how you don’t have context about the who and why the word was used (and for that matter, neither do I), but context does matters and I feel it was overlooked in this case. I don’t think you had bad intentions or were trying to be preachy, but it did rub me the wrong way.

I think discussing the small things we “good intentioned people” do to make things a little better is a maybe neglected and worthwhile endeavour.

I wholeheartedly agree.

If my initial point spiralled into turning SLAVE into a pariah, getting him chased off the forum or anything like that, that would be unfortunate and not my intention.

It’s not how I (and hopefully no-one else) took it, but I think it’s a worthwhile clarification to make regardless.

I’m curious about SLAVE’s thoughts or any POC members…

As am I.

i just acted on the impulse to try my best to challenge injustices when I can and my only intention was to “say something”.

It’s a good thing to do, as there are many who do not have the courage to speak up.

@SLAVE_XIV I’m do not mean to attack you, I do mean welcome to the forum, and I am just curious about your thoughts on this.

And that’s exactly why I’m going to shut up now, so that I’m not hogging the dance-floor all night. haha!

Once again, thanks for the chat @7asid , I hope we all have food for thought for a while, I know I do. Gonna get off now before I get too overloaded.

[makeuswhole]

@SLAVE_XIV

Dude seriously, I promise it wont be like this every time you post something. Don’t be scared. haha!

[bfk]

Welcome to the forum…

In addition to that stuff above…you will find ways to tap into your muse and find music that is your muse…

With a slight touche of silly posts…

But sillyness and the other stuff aside…music on…and welcome.

[SLAVE_XIV]

Alright, First off I will just state that when looking at a word, I have to keep it in context. For example; One could get all crazy on the term “black metal” for example and it should be taken as it is, that it is not referring to skin color. If I say I am wearing everything white, I am not boasting “White Supremacy”. If the term slave was used in a context of “I believe people should be slaves and demanded to serve others” I can understand the outrage that would and should occur. However the Name “SLAVE_XIV” has no context of which I approve or disapprove the act of human slavery; to me that is horrendous. I am all about equality and love for all men, and women (I do not want to deemed sexist when I am not) I also love diversity, that which brings forth the most beautiful gifts and shows the power of overcomers in all the beautiful various ways.

If then, you have a “hunch” that a word is meant harm, just simply shoot a question and ask “What does your name mean” and I will be glad to say that the term SLAVE is relating to a scripture in the new testament In which Apostle Paul declares himself a “Bond Slave” to Christ. That is he chooses to follow Christ as a willing slave and do as Christ commands. The number XIV deals with a group of saints known as the “Fourteen Holy Helpers” whose collective stories have inspired me to Trust Christ in every area of my life. As such with the “Bond Slave” of Christ as dedication, and the fourteen Saints, which help me as role models of how to deal with the problems in Life I face, and inspire me to push boundaries to be self-less and help others. And I will use the term SLAVE_XIV freely because I know what it means, and if asked will easily clarify.

God Bless;

[Vlantis]

I did sex slave roleplay a few times…

…and I would do it again.

Hi, I’m Vlantis.

[Auto-meh-geddon]

@makeuswhole and @7asid thanks for keeping it civilised but take it to private messages now.

[makeuswhole]

For sure. I think we’re finished anyway, but it’s still a good call out.