80 tribillion hits on youtube and the like = $$$$

has online promo for music become dominated by bots and click factories that are designed/get paid by companies to jack up the hits on social media sites, or are a percentage of those numbers actually real what do you think

i think its 50/50…

It went from - artists paying for their music video to get people to listen to their music to - artist paying for their music video and fake listeners to get people listen to their music. Thats business $$

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I’ve been preaching going out and meeting real people in real life for as long as I’ve dared to call myself a musician. Going to gigs. Being a part of the scene. Helping carry shit when no one asks etc etc etc. Get involved. Real people will listen to your shit if you ask them. Real people will remember you and invite you to play out at events.

I’ve had more people I met in real life hear my music than online I’m sure and that’s simply because I bothered to learn how to setup a PA and was willing to carry shit when no one else wanted to.

I apologize if there is an edge to my response but I get irked by these discussions of how do I sit at home and get people to listen to my music online, the system is fucked. Yes, the system is fucked, so go around it.

Unless your nearest neighbor is miles away from you there is SOME kind of music scene near by you. Figure out a way to be a part of it. If you can bring an extra 20 people buying drinks and tipping to an average bar on Wednesday night most bars are happy to have you.


No worries on my end. Kinda funny how the capability of streaming and social media changed things in some aspect. But also certain things still remain the same.

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Oh absolutely. And I still think digital matters, a lot. What I’m talking about wouldn’t work nearly as well if I couldn’t immediately direct someone to my artist social media in the moment. It would be totally different if I couldn’t hand them a CD or thumb drive with my music on it that I just completed in my very capable home studio of a laptop and headphones. It’d not at all be the same if I couldn’t just carry my current pool of tracks, as a DJ, around with me on a thumb drive in my pocket and walk up to a set of pioneer CDJs and a mixer and fill in for someone that called in sick.

All that stuff matters, I’m just of the philosophy we should use the advantages of the new to enhance what was already working well instead of trying to live this online life of isolation (hyperbole, yes, but I think we know what I mean).

Like literally who cares about being “Sound Cloud Famous” to use an old term. I would absolutely trade thousands of real listens online for the few nights a year I get to play for small crowds. We throw likes and reposts around like candy. And we get a shot of dopamine along with each one we receive. It is easy to get caught up in online. But it turned out that one guy in a crowd of 50 who is on shrooms and really loosing it my disco set is worth way more emotionally to me than I ever thought possible until it happened for the first time.


The one thing that never happens on the internet


hahahaha. killer party : )

This faking stuff… it was always like that. Cash up front for higher spot, etc. It’s a big money machine - just a bit of different modern tactics. They had to adapt. Big labels buy bot plays even for famous/semi-famous artists, even without them knowing this because that’s a modern way to try to make someone relevant. Just so they could move one place higher in some what is hot right now playlist on some platform. Streaming farms exist. That’s an investement to create fake hype that can turn into real one (“guys check this new upcoming song from this artist, everyone is listening to it!”).

If you’re small folk, just ignore there corporate plays. Actually, these times are even better. We all can stay independent with zero third-party interaction and still morally succeed. It was kind of possible before with underground scenes, smaller community based projects who fund each other… But now being a bedroom producer is even easier because of digital. Owning your own success can be a huge factor to help you move further. Nobody really owns you and you’re not contracted to produce 5 albums in 5 years like you read in those horror label stories. We can’t battle those big guys so be it. It’s like complaining that hollywood continues to produce poor movies. But that’s its purpose - to create some popcorn content with not much of return value.

Streaming farming/bot services for regular folk are interesting. They prey on amateur and fame-driven wannabe rockstars. These people look for way to get themselves heard in every possible way forgetting to, you know, actually make some good music and this is a basis of this sketchy market. Monthly bundle options of 10k plays, 5k following… It is a market which tries to attract people who aren’t too self-aware and always looking for shortcuts instead of just working hard and getting good. It’s immoral, it’s cheap and often just a very temporal ego boost because once they stop paying for these services, everything gets back to normal. At least you can point fingers at because it’s easily detectable.

So, enjoy your own progress, continue with your passion rather than complain about corporate wars and marketing fuckery, that’s my motto right now. Fuck this, fuck that. Keep making music cuz it’s fun.