The philosophy thread (reminder philosophy is not politics nor conspiracy theories)


#123

im more so talking about how an individual decides to use their free will whether or not free will is allowed exist…

its all about inherent human nature…

either humans are bad and needs to be kept in check

or

humans are good and will most often do the right thing

or

humans are both good and bad so we need laws just to be on the safe side

so why give a something like a charity building homes for the homeless, or governmental program negative pr if they are trying to do something positive, if its suggestion of how do things better thats one thing, but if its just
nonsensical criticism for the sake of criticism

people using free speech to obtain power for powers sake by using the system so that they can have control over free will…

it depends on the actions of the establishment towards individuals and how they are allowed to be in society and the actions of individuals…

and everyone has their own ideas about how to be so…-shrug-

and im not talking about politics, trying to have a more holistic discussion about stuff


#124

Is that what you meant by anti-establishment ideology in the above post, something like non-sensical criticism? But how does that relate to the evaluation of ideology and the question if establishment allows for reasonable expression of free will?

Or should the following be interpreted on the level of individual decision-making? And how so?


#125

sort of…i dont think im doing a good job at explaining the idea, or making things clear… so as an example look at what happened in this thread…

i guess if you want it can be interpreted on the level of individual decision making…ideology often determines ones course of actions when presented with certain situations…so if someone decides to be a troll, or just be an asshole because of reasons…are their reasons warranted? tbh im not sure of what the circumstances are that would warrant such behavior…

Tbh this occurred to me when I was watching the series godfather of harlem


#126

Interesting example, I think now I get it!
I would say though that looking for weak points in arrangements, structures, systems or arguments just for doing it can have its benefits in the long run. If you want to make a system safer, a good way to do it is to get a hacker to find the holes and weak points. If the system, arguments or whatever is to endure, it should be able to stand internal criticism. Maybe you can say that it might get problematic if the criticism is propagated systematically for external benefits even when the actual content has been internally discussed and solved, but imho that would be more of a structural problem and less of an individual one.


#127

That’s radical… I’ve heard some versions of this but this particular one is relatively concise. It’s easy enough to dismiss as mental trickery and illusion… but something about the reality of the Möbius strip makes it ring true.


#128

You are describing Libertarianism … and describing it better than most Libertarians.

Usually Libertarianism is described as “minimal government”… a sort of kinder gentler anarchy. But minimal government is inadequate government… True Libertarianism is minimal in the sense of “right-sized” government! with adequate (not excessive!) laws and regulations that (as you point out) “… best protects the life, liberty, and property of its individual citizens and makes a reasonable social contract with them…”

They key phrase is “individual citizens”… not “society” not corporations, or “good ol’ boy” clubs or any other mob, especially politicians and government in general.

Rights belong to the individual… the “best and right-sized” government serves to protect that alone… anything else is corruption.


#129

food for thought: you can somewhat make your own reality


#130

Life one day your on top and the next you will be on the bottom…take everything in stride and always push yourself to accomplish your goals or take care of responsibilities.

Just documenting a conversation I had with a stranger


#131

Does Language determine thinking and is word choice a clue to subconcious thinking?..

The philosophy of suggestion and subliminal advertising…in conjunction with motivation…in this day and age are our thoughts really are own?..

Plz no mk ultra conspiracy garbage…

Or does the linking of our collective imagination and physical reality…result in the circumstances of what we experience?

Yeah this is some marijuana type philosophical enlightenment


#132

No, it’s big business, because you’re absolutely correct.

Maybe the biggest and most wide-reaching thing the internet has achieved in developed nations (besides free porn and pictures of cats and kids and cats as kids), is developing a data set large enough to be useful. It’s easy to take the opinion of 100 people and make some sort of determination from it, but any statistician or anyone that relies on statistics will tell you that’s just not a large enough sample to apply to a country or demographic. It’s hard to poll enough meaningful data to be useful on a large scale, so for years, people just sort of guessed. Now they have the internet.

Combined with AI algorithms, companies are analyzing everything from sales purchases to public Facebook posts and developing models, both to specifically target you (ie you Amazon suggested purchases) and larger groups that have similar traits/habits. It’s really just ramping up (started maybe 5-10 years ago), but it seems to work. It’s just as easily applied to things like political ads or other forms of marketing. Analysis of your writing or the things you respond to means that the wording of a particular ad can be tailor made to your profile based on what they know, and it’s relatively simple to have an algorithm generate text based on words or phrases you yourself have used.

But before we get all black helicopter about it, the only real difference here is efficiency. Marketing companies have been analyzing data and trends and using focus groups for almost a century. Now the focus group isn’t a group, it’s a bunch of posts people made on the internet. They’re just cutting out some of the legwork. And it does work - people are really, really susceptible to marketing tactics, and have been since people started selling things. But honestly, if a 30 second blurb can change your mind on an issue or make you want a burger…well, I think that says more about the person on the receiving end than anything else.

John Wannamaker, the guy who started Macy’s and ‘the father of modern marketing’ once said “half of my advertising dollars are wasted, I just don’t know which half”. I have to wonder if that’s becoming less true in our current era.


#133

I guess I need to develop a psychic shield for my mind like charles Xavier or someshit…

Also Honestly I wonder if the increase mental illnesses…is nature pulling a trial and error until humanity evolves and develops psychic powers…


#134

@bfk
Interestingly enough, to some degree, yes.
Studies have found that languages which have more separate names for a color’s shades are more sensative to differences in shades of that color than another culture with fewer names.

My wife, the best damn philosopher I’ve ever known…seriously, has a saying that we imagine so that we do (I’m paraphrasing - she says it better).

For example - we imagine flight firstly as pure fiction so we chase it and make it happen.
Essentially, if we put it out there as an imagining of what we will do, especially if we repeat that imagining a hell of a lot, then we will eventually do it because we’ve collectively programmed ourselves to do it over time.

The power of stories is the reality they make (Terry Pratchett).

So to a degree, our language (in full scope) in part creates or sense of reality.

I ran into this a lot studying anthropology.
The etymology of a word opened a lot about a culture’s perception of reality.

Ancient Hebrew used the same root for a viper and bronze, and both showed up in allegories of wise and foolish men. The point was that both of these things required experience to know how to get something out of them, or you could get hurt. Knowledge alone wasn’t enough.
For “eternity” or “forever”, they rooted into the shared word for horizon. It basically meant more than can be seen.
To their cultural mind, reality was defined by what they knew, and then strapped to it for a while in a reverse loop. The viper eventually became bronze and bronze a viper, they became interchangable ideas.

The Greeks’ word Logos didn’t just mean words. It meant that an idea was given form, spoken, and then entered into another mind where it would program the receiving mind (using our terms to convey their notion here).
They had laws against speech. If you said something and someone went off and did something bad as a result of what you said, then you could be charged because you bore that reality into existence with your words. They were a sort of spirit reality.

It was really cool to see how language shaped thought.

@Artificer
One of my favorite marketing tales was from business class in college. I can’t recall the names and details anymore, but basically it was sometime around Macy’s era and a department store couldn’t move dresses, even when put on sale. A fellow added.99 cents to the original price and they started selling because people assumed a .99 ending price was a sale price and meant it was a deal - yet they were buying higher than it was before.

I like that one.

In that same class, we did a study for our fake business where we hung red paper on the right and the left - alternating, and wrote down how many people noticed the paper out of everyone who passed by the hallway.

The right side won outright. We wanted to know where to put the coffee shop in a book store - to the left or right? Which would people subliminally be blind to? Left, turns out to be the answer in our culture.

I loved marketing psychology. It was like designing magic tricks.

Cheers,
Jayson


#135

Interesting thank you for some reason that paragraph helped confirm an answer to a lot of personal questions.


#136

Without social conditioning would we inherently know what’s right and what’s wrong?..

By not experiencing the effect of our actions would most proceed to behave the way they behave?


#137

There’s no such thing as right or wrong without society.
If there was one human on the planet, then they couldn’t do anything wrong.

Cheers,
Jayson


#138

Somethings aren’t important to entertain thought…

Right so the pondering of things like the existentialness of the moment or trying to siphon through ideology to point out hypocrisy or seeking purity…is futile because it doesnt lead to progressive action.

And not every movement for social acceptance is in the right…and trying to shift social norms for whatever purpose will just wind up deviating from acceptable standards that exist for a reason

Fuck it can’t win…So…might as well learn to compromise

Tl;dr some dude yelling at twitter troll bots

Also removed shitpost comments…


#139

Did y’all know that there’s currently no way to determine whether or not people experience the same sensation of colors? Yes, we all understand that the wavelengths of light create different colors, and no matter what, a certain wavelength makes what we all agree to be green (color blindness notwithstanding). But there’s no way to tell if our minds all create the same sensation of green. I.e, my green might be your blue, or any other variation of color swap. There’s simply no way to tell if our brains generate the same intangible quality of green for our minds to experience. This demonstrates a fundamental inability to be 100 percent sure of the true nature of reality, seeing as our perceptions can’t be physically proven to be universal even at such a basic level as qualia. Mr vsauce Michael explains it far better than me:


#140

Yeah I think it’s natural for biodiversity to exist I think its naturally occurring as function entropy/ anti entropy…


#141

Transference…in regards psychologically projecting woes and personal issues onto a singular person and rationalizing that they are the sole cause for or the solution to a myriad of systemic societal issues that has existed and gone on for years
(^the media tends to make people this way towards a politician regardless of what side they represent)

Geography being a factor for a persons self development and actualization…in regards to what life path they choose to take as a result of the options available to them…

And concerning truth,…
a firefighter gets into a petty fist fight with a guy…the guy he fought would say he’s an asshole…but the firefighter also rescues people…so in regards to both statements both may or not be objectively true but subjectively both statements are true from a personal standpoint…


#142

Socks are the most versatile piece of clothing that we wear and yet it is difficult to distinguish the right sock from the left sock.