Frankly, while I stand by everything else I’ve said. This is the thrust of the issue for me. I like Auto’s Curated By series idea and will probably participate in that because I would like to see one proper dance release on the Netlabel.
But it is really that I just don’t want to do it anymore. I’m happy to continue to keeping the forum sorted and supporting community projects by helping them with forum logistics (merging threads, changing titles, making stickies, happy to look into the “groups” thing), but I don’t and never wanted to do A&R for the netlabel and I’m really not interested in listening to and voting on everything that comes across the netlabel’s plate. It just came down to the fact that there was no one else to do it, so I did it. Having done it for a while, I found out I have no interest in it.
So, I guess the label doesn’t have to evolve if no one in the community wants that. If that means choosing someone new who wants to do A&R and listen and vote, seems reasonable at this juncture.
I also think the name sucks. If we have money to buy a new domain and get the DNS sorted that doesn’t sound like a terrible idea. We could theoretically have idmforums.com and a new URL both direct people’s browsers to the forum. Keep idmforums.com for 12 months then ditch it.
I have no idea how nostalgic or attached Stu might be to the name, but I think we can collectively make an argument for changing it. I mean, I agree with everyone who has said IDM isn’t really a thing any more.
This word is pompous, and egotistic. Good music in itself is intelligent. Pop music, even though people love to slam it, is intelligent in it’s own right. A composition book I am reading talks about this phenomenon, Great composers add a “popular touch” to hide their greatness in writing. To write a song that is logical, easy to remember/ follow along to, and addicting does not happen just by chance or accident. That word is the one that should be replaced with something more unifying honestly.
I, along with @White_Noise also stand by my offer to volunteer.
I do think there needs to be some sort of structured communication from a team alongside the community in terms of the label map. I’ve heard a lot of “we have something else in the works” or “we have another release slated” etc. But nothing really… clear. The past two events kind of just came out of nowhere (maybe they did? :P).
Here’s an example of why I bring this up:
The Versus series I made. I announced it, it started getting some interest, it had official mod team support, I made a cool graphic and a post with rules. I got a handful of people interested in making a track for it, and then Date Night got announced like two weeks later. We all have limited resources, so naturally all the talent and time for collaborations seemed to naturally flock towards that event since it was official. I have kind of shelved the versus idea for the time being because there just isn’t as much bandwidth to have two major collaborative open genre events going on at the same time - until more people come in or if we can get some new interested artists/members.
The point I’m trying to make - is it might be cool to have a “roadmap” that we can all discuss and be part of maintaining. Give different volunteers different events to host and follow up on - whether we want a genre-specific release, a remix album, a collab… open genre singles… just whatever, so we all know what’s coming down the pipeline.
I think having a scheduled workflow of events with deadlines and potential future opportunities would be not only good for all of us to schedule time for music prod and any effort related to releasing some tunes, but also for promotion to new artists. Someone could check out a visual chart and say “hey, in 3 months there’s an open genre event on this community, I want to try and be part of that”.
We can’t necessarily say “if the community wants an event or release to happen have it happen” - because we aren’t a big enough user base to spread everyone that thin. I think that’s why having maybe one or two events going on at the same time -max- is beneficial to everyone.
With a road map, a lot of us who have odd work schedules, college, or different shit can say “yeah in 6 months when I’m in a different spot I can produce a track for that compilation” and give a vast amount of time to whip up something good that’s ready to go when it opens up for subs.
Or maybe a Gantt (I don’t remember if that’s two Ns or two Ts) chart. They let you have an overall timeline that also lets you have individual projects on that timeline. So not only can you see everything slated for release, you can see what state it’s all in. So we could for example see (at a glance) that as soon as IDMf 098 is out on 12-12-12, 099 is heading into post/copy/hype building, 100 is in review, and 101 (or possibly 100) is open for subs.
They’re a very good way to keep track of complex projects running in parallel with multiple parts/departments, and I expect there’s a way to make a passable one online for free and paste a link of the up-to-date version somewhere sticky. They can also give us management insight. What’s taking the longest? Maybe we should put more resources there to keep things moving along. Or maybe the pipeline is going to slow down and we don’t want to be 6 months without a release so we slow down the current release schedule some.
And this could be as detailed about the contents of the release or as opaque as you want. It could be just catalog numbers with the members that need to know knowing what those refer to, or it could be detailed descriptions of who’s doing what and what that album has on it.
Oh, and looked into it before posting, you can apparently hack one together in Excel. I’ll download a template this weekend and see how painful or painless that may be.
@nostromer Really? And then you wonder why we’re getting tired of the netlabel? The whole point of date night was to run smaller project into something with enough traction for a release, rather than having 2/3 community project not going anywhere.
Anyway, congratulations, you just inherited Date Night. Make it a success, if it doesn’t meet our quality standards, please tone it down and stop trying so hard.
No offense, but unless you are already apart of a company you rarely get to know the ins&outs of the backend.
That would be like Apple computers saying ok, you bought the iPhone, now you get to know all of our coding, and design, hell let’s let you know how the funds are being allocated. Etc. .
Somethings are only known to the “general” public on a need to know basis. I get that we all want to be in the know, but some information is just meant to be preserved or withheld and only shared between certain individuals until the “brand” has determined what is the next best course of action to make the brands image move forward.
I am not part of IDMFNetLabel, but as i see this matter it seems as if they are trying to find a “new employee”. Whenever you apply for a job, and you don’t get a response right away do you harass the hiring manager? If so has it ever worked for you to get the dream job you want? It often doesn’t work in the Arts & Entertainment field. There’s a lot of moving parts, and people who take up proper roles to support others. Everyone has a duty, and if you are a artist it is rare that you get a insight as to how the selection process to determine what songs, albums, projects get picked up by a label/distro/etc.
Usually if they like it, you hear back, otherwise, you rarely get feedback/critques/or this is what we are trying to decide on type of communication. Or if someone here has gotten such, then please let me know what I am doing wrong! …
Not to brag… but I get offered contracts to work for big corporations where I live in the bay area, and they rarely if ever tell me when/who/or why I did not get the contract. They either ask me in for multiple rounds of interviews to see how I will fit into the current teams culture, or go silent. When we get picked up as the post production house, it’s through ad agencies who know our work. But when we loose clients, we don’t get a reason why they went to LA to do the post production! …
Ok sorry had to edit to say some of this stuff haha, and to fix some spelling errors. =)
You missed my point. Communication. - Had I known the mods thought that the current slew of community events “weren’t going anywhere” and a NEW event was planned to be put in place effectively sweeping any traction and talent away from the others, than I wouldn’t have spent all the fucking time and effort into putting this proposed Versus project into effect - an event of which HAD official moderator support AND a different thread predating it by a month looking for interested people.
When you come out and presume that community projects aren’t going anywhere and then create an “OFFICIAL” event that pulls away the talent from those releases ever completing their traction, it just means communication isn’t happening effectively. There was a lot going on behind the scenes in PMs that I was maintaining.
Regardless, it doesn’t matter - as I myself decided to put all my effort into the Date Night collabs because it’s an awesome idea and having an official release will always get traction versus any efforts from the community-driven opportunities- which also ties into the odd timing of the “We are IDMf” thread coming out basically stating you guys are throwing out keys and unknowns to everyone.
Everyone will always flock to an official released event. What even is “Official” now? We still haven’t even decided if and how and when official releases will work, meeting some nebulous quality standard from some unknown party of users to be released by who the fuck knows in cahoots with whoever the gatekeeper of passwords is at any given time. so… who the fuck cares what my opinions are?
I apparently have a knack for completely pissing you guys off all the time, all by just being real and trying to help as much as possible by giving straight transparent analyses of what’s going on around here - and that has done nothing but ruffle feathers.
I don’t fuckin’ get it man. I put one foot of effort into this place and get kicked in the ass when I throw up a criticism of any sense.
Edit- for the record I announced that Versus series on Jan 21, the Date Night came out of left field on the 4th of Feb. You didn’t even give it time to gain traction before apparently assuming it wasn’t going to go anywhere. Nice.
It takes a lot for me to get pissed off in any sense - ironically enough getting pissed off at the fact that I somehow keep pissing everyone else off accidentally like I’m the triggerlord of IDMf somehow.
and pretty much coming across as the guy who will keep making noise until he gets things his way.
And with 2/3 of the Netlabel team planning on leaving, you might just get your wish, but frankly, I look at the two more likely candidates and I see White Noise, who has constantly helped out the netlabel, never making much of a fuss about it, or you, making a big fuss about everything, but doing not much yet really.
So go ahead, leave your mark, show us how things can be done in a different way.
Do you need any support/login/anything from any of us, PM us and we’ll share what you need.
But please, drop the “passionate saviour of the forum” attitude, it’s tiring and as you can see it brings out the worse from other people who may misread your posts and feel attacked.
Noise how so? I’ve only ever offered opinions in an open dialog during discussion posts the same as anyone else. I’ve always prefaced my shit with the intent it was purely just another opinion out here. I’ve never once pushed any directions, just pure open dialog. Opinions aren’t welcome here? This thread is full of loaded posts from tons of other users - but I suppose they get the pass because at the end of the day they say they don’t have the time to offer.
While yeah, despite my ten year tenure with the site and being featured on releases in vintage IDMf, there hasn’t been enough time to really “officially” display a lot of my merits. Although being active on discord with the community daily, pulling the podcast together (of which the first episode is recorded, and I’m not even participating in) and getting everyone to rank on voice mics… I guess that accounts for nothing? That’s a new direction a lot of people were on board with and I helped make happen on a lot of my own free time.
I have also collabed with a ton of artists, using discord and PMs as direction - so it’s likely a lot of other people don’t see it and just look at me as a constant lurking shitposter. That’s fine.
Free time - that I could have easily spent working on my own personal stuff, but the past 90 days I’ve had literally all of my production time be focused on IDMf tracks and collabs - including the event I got support from the mods to host. I’ve even done a good number of hours working on artwork for members - the times for release just haven’t been met yet.
You can’t on one hand offer up an anything goes policy to the community, and then bitch if I’m the one member that happens to put in the most time towards something with opinions on the side.
Please, tell me once where I had any sense of attitude that I was the savior of this forum. Do you really think I care to be some savior of a dying internet forum that nobody knows about? I do think this place has a reputation and can grow into something awesome again, I’ve just been here on the sidelines trying to help guide it - and you guys are on the sideline saying “fuck it we are out”.
If you guys are hanging up the flag, don’t go out stating other members are shit-entitled for stepping up and offering their own time to try and dedicate to continuing things. Just because I come off as enthusiastic and ready to jump on the opportunity to help the place grow - why does that come off that I’m attacking you guys? That’s not even the intent at all.
Trust me, I’m not sitting over here like I’m going to get some ego-trip over being the reigning KING OF 30 ACTIVE MEMBERS IN A MUSIC FORUM YEEEE
Nobody gives a fuck. I dont. I’m here because I love the artists music and It’s fun to hang with you guys. I think with a bit of HELP from members, we can self-promote the place and make it bangin’ again. Isn’t that the idea?
…or are we just going to let this fizzle out? I’ve never once discredited the hard work the mod team has done. I praise it. I wanted to be part of it - because it was always the discussion that there was never enough time and resources. THAT WAS MY WHOLE IDEA - I had it, it’s obvious. It’s not entitled, It’s not holier-than-thou.
I wanted to help this place because I respect the team that holds it together and I respect the artists. Not EVER because I have some sense of “my direction” complex. Get over that shit man.
I’m going to say lastly that… to create a Date Night event in the sense that you assume community projects won’t succeed is lame (I didn’t know the mods created that out of the presumption they’d fail until you said it), and also - then to immediately ante up someone to take it over because you can’t see it through? the fuck dude. Finish what you started.
This has the appearance that @Automageddon is just shooting himself in the foot. This site is obviously on a down ward trend as far as quantity of users active daily.
What I don’t understand why @Automageddon is slapping @nostromer ever chance he shows he wants to help the forum that again is clearly fizzling out. That to me looks like a decision made because of personal reasons vs the welfare of the forum, and he has become blinded by some grudge.
My point- the site is not on an upward trend, and the guy who wants to devote time and energy to turn it around is being smacked around unjustly.
I’m pretty sure most people don’t even know what IDM is anymore, so I say keep the name, change the meaning, possibly incorporate the “f” into it. Or just keep it IDMf with the original meaning being a piece of trivia.
I don’t think that’s the case. You guys get a lot of respect (you have my utmost respect, and that’s not bullshit), and there are volunteers. It’s just a time of change and nobody wants to fuck it up. I’ve talked about it with others in PM’s and voice chat, but it’s all about building momentum. I’ve started some projects, but the momentum isn’t there yet to hand it off and have it be it’s own thing instead of “Vlantis’s project”, and the fault may rest on my shoulders, but I think that’s what’s going on in the forum as a whole, but it’s getting there.
defensive mode: activate If you guys asked me a few years ago to help run the label, I would have jumped at it (and probably would have fucked it up ) unfortunately I can’t offer my services now because of personal shit (there’s a reason why I’m not online all that much at the moment), but I try to contribute to the community when I can.
Hyperbolic statement, but a good example of the attitude one can have when things get a little heated. Benwaa’s “Contribute or get the fuck out” way of thinking turned a lot of people off back in the day, myself included. In hindsight, I understand his frustration, just as I understand the current team’s. You’re getting bombarded by a bunch of differing personalities with strong opinions all the damn time.
Appreciate the honesty. I think you’re doing great with the tech stuff. Sounds superficial, but it’s genuine.
I personally don’t agree. I think a name change would be the death of the forum. Hell, the switch to the new forum killed off a bunch of old timers. People like familiarity. It’s okay that Drukqs is no longer culturally relevant, this place can still be IDMf.
That is very true. I don’t listen to a lot of pop music, but I also find the term “intelligent” off putting. Dang, I’m quoting this shit.
I’m editing this to add a preface to the next stuff: I may have missed something that rubbed people the wrong way. I mean, I just found out that some regular forum members were unaware of the epicness that happened in the 050 thread, which I think is one of the reasons this place is still around… The following stuff is just my opinion:
I think you misunderstood the post. @nostromer doesn’t have to be the “leader” but he IS getting some stuff together (podcast, etc). I think @White_Noise would be an awesome guy to help run things, as well. Both have qualities that would benefit the community.
The antagonistic response is frustrating to read. No offense, I like and respect you a hell of a lot, @Automageddon.
Yeah, I don’t get it. With some of the characters that have come and gone, I don’t find your attitude offensive or combative. You might be trying to juggle too many projects, thus limiting your output, but the upcoming podcast thing wouldn’t have happened without your enthusiasm.
Ah well, I used to get shit for “being in the Ben Steed and Claymore clique” and both those guys are fondly remembered (and still good chaps! )
Could be stress and fatigue or something he said earlier that raised your alarm bells, but I don’t get this response. I dunno, we’re all getting old and tired. I just want you to know that your less-is-more approach to things and knowing when to be the bigger person has always been admired by this fellow random forum member.
Deep breaths guys deep breaths.there is opportunity here,i would hate to see it lost.
all of you have certain talents.certainly they can be put to use.in what way is unclear to me at the moment.however,despite personalities clashing a bit.there is still a core of users who will step up,
if asked.not everyone sees there own talents,or abilities.there are so many things flying around,ideas and what not.the fact is users are declining.how do we change that?i could start some creative threads,similar to what am did.maybe i can contribute some artwork.i did after all get the album back for groovechilds climber release.i also participated in the hommage project.basically i have free time.alot of it.i am working on an ep,but still,i would rather help here however i can.
i just need a little direction.i have a great ear,and talent you don’t really know about.
anyhow lets be diplomatic about this,there is much to be had here.lets make it happen!
i am game.are you?
This whole thing boils down into the classic battle of NEW SCHOOL vs OLD SCHOOL
This forum back in it’s prime was a beautiful and majestic lovable entity. Whatever magic that was performed to bring it to it’s peak worked well, and the site clearly would not have reached that level without the amount of work put into it by the people at the top and a little bit of luck.
That time has past
Look at the world around you. Look at the governments that govern you and the political climate you live in. Now compare that to ten years ago. For better or for worse (whatever you believe) we all can agree that things have changed drastically. What worked well 10 years ago is not going to work in today’s world, and that is a fact. This site will never be identical to what it once was, but still has a great foundation to grow into something new. What doesn’t help growth however is squashing ideas due to suspect motive. Right now it seems we are dead in the water looking at the past and trying to recreate it with completely new tools, but while using the same old techniques, and in a widely different environment. Meanwhile we have @nostromer coming up with new and different ideas trying to adapt to today’s climate and being publicly shunned by bitter clingers of the past.
Clearly there is a gaping void/ vacuum that needs to be filled with new creative ideas that could open the forum up to a wider market of users. If there is one thing I have learned, the ones that are making policy who are closed minded and stuck in the past are the ones who slowly let something die, while the ones who have their sights to the future and trying new things (no matter what the motive is) eventually end up succeeding.