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Old 06-10-2016, 02:48 PM   #1
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Making music

Well, i think i have a problem, i have a bad habit that i put all of things on master (compresor, wider, louder, eq) although I didnt finished track... well, anyone have this problem too, it is like addiction, i cant not do it :victory:

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Old 06-10-2016, 03:20 PM   #2
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Re: Making music

no because you should never make a track with anything on the master at all
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Old 06-10-2016, 03:40 PM   #3
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Re: Making music

make different bus groups or "folder tracks" to assign certain sounds to and put those effects there instead, the master track is solely for mastering, there's no problem putting effects on the master if you know what you're doing is right
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Old 06-10-2016, 08:32 PM   #4
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by foilmusiq View Post
Well, i think i have a problem, i have a bad habit that i put all of things on master (compresor, wider, louder, eq) although I didnt finished track... well, anyone have this problem too, it is like addiction, i cant not do it :victory:
So do this. When the tune is done, route away from the master. Kicks on one track, snares/claps on another, cymbals on another, etc. Render everything separately, reroute, then decide how you want each part to sound. Some people say nothing on the master, I say the only real thing damning to a track is a limiter on the master. Otherwise, enjoy
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Old 07-10-2016, 02:47 AM   #5
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Re: Making music

Hey man/woman/gender neutral.... I had that problem for long time. I would make many cool sounding loops in Ableton's session view and then when things sounded ok I would want to make them sound even better, or try and get an idea of how they might sound mastered. But what I was doing was really stupid (no offense to you ha).

Now 10+ years later... I still do this, mostly when I'm drunk or something....

However, the biggest help to this is listed below. Hope it helps you too. Took me a long time to realize the benefits of doing this.


1. Create 3-4 solid sounds that will be the "main theme of your track" or "core sounds" you'll base other things around. but do very little with compression/eq/effect (unless part of the sound design process or if you know you might want a long reverb or delay on something that you'll need to work other elements around. Example might be the reverb or delay on a snare drum where you might want some other sound to appear at a certain point after)

2. Once you have these elements stop making more and take these elements directly into Ableton's arrangement view and start sketching out the beginning of your track.

3. Once you have a general idea of how the track will be, EQ/light compressing those "core sounds" so they fit together well and each one sounds like they have their own place in this initial mix.

4. Then start creating/adding in the other bits, hi-hats, ambient sounds, whatever else isn't the main focus of the track.

5. Then do the same with EQ/compression (if needed, many times these other parts do not need compression) to these new parts.

6. Once everything seems to work well and you have a good foundation, with transitions and almost a full track, go ahead and bring in those "mastering/bus channel" effects to help you identify with loudness where things might just not fit well. Maybe too harsh sounding? Maybe too dull?

The faster you get a track arranged the more you'll finish

Hope that helps

Last edited by agent; 07-10-2016 at 02:55 AM..
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Old 07-10-2016, 03:49 AM   #6
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by joem View Post
no because you should never make a track with anything on the master at all
So not true.

Many people mix and compose into a mastering chain. You just have to be careful and reference the track with the masterbus plugins deactivated from time to time.

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Old 07-10-2016, 04:11 AM   #7
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Re: Making music

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So not true.

Many people mix and compose into a mastering chain. You just have to be careful and reference the track with the masterbus plugins deactivated from time to time.
This is true.

But...

U need to know why your doing it and what it's doing. Which I'm sure you know RFJ

But that goes with every pinpoint of music, don't just do shit bc it makes it louder, or wider or whatever.

Do it because you need too, because you must to make something fit, or stand out, or sink it, or glued together, or etc...
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Old 07-10-2016, 05:00 AM   #8
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Re: Making music

Oh and one more thing b4 my phone dies or I pass out from alcoholism...

In the beginning stages, during the initial arrangement, do not pay attention to levels.

Just focus on quality of the sounds and as you build the track out then start to focus on levels during the actual "mixing stage"

Basically do things in stages as much as possible

This helps you focus and move the track forward, as you have a clear approach to what your doing, when your doing it and most important "why your doing it"

keep the weird experimental shit confined to the sound design and arrangement stage, not the mixing stage and even more so the mastering stage if your gonna do it yourself.

No this is not a set in stone rule, nore is my previous response, just something that helped me greatly move past getting stuck in the "OOOH these few loops sound amazing but now what?" Stage

Last edited by agent; 07-10-2016 at 05:06 AM..
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Old 07-10-2016, 07:18 AM   #9
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Re: Making music

Well, in one part i know what i am doing (did digital and vinyl releases whith this way) but wanted to hear people opinion on that, i know i should do some changes in music production process, well, i rarely export all tracks to wav and mix than, one more stupit thing, but i love to hear how track would sound in "mastered" Will try without anything on master and see what will happen.
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Old 07-10-2016, 09:45 AM   #10
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by foilmusiq View Post
"mastered"
Are we allowed to use the "Master" word around here?

Just wondering...
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:21 AM   #11
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Re: Making music

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Are we allowed to use the "Master" word around here?

Just wondering...
We end up discussing everything.

My perspective: people say that a piece of art is not finished until the artist walks away.

Mixing CAN be done simply using the volumes on each instrument channel. It may not be a full, developed mix with each individual sound tuned to perfection, however it does create a mix.

So once the mix is considered satisfactory to the artist, implementing effects to master to their idea of what the track should sound like would create a master. Of what quality? Well, that's a matter for the listener to determine.

I'm putting things this way because people seem to think because there's a theory to music/musicianship/production that there's the way and anything that doesn't abide becomes shit.

If you make a track and then route everything and effect everything properly, there's a chance the music will sound more powerful.
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:34 AM   #12
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by jimmusician View Post
We end up discussing everything.

My perspective: people say that a piece of art is not finished until the artist walks away.

Mixing CAN be done simply using the volumes on each instrument channel. It may not be a full, developed mix with each individual sound tuned to perfection, however it does create a mix.

So once the mix is considered satisfactory to the artist, implementing effects to master to their idea of what the track should sound like would create a master. Of what quality? Well, that's a matter for the listener to determine.

I'm putting things this way because people seem to think because there's a theory to music/musicianship/production that there's the way and anything that doesn't abide becomes shit.

If you make a track and then route everything and effect everything properly, there's a chance the music will sound more powerful.
well said
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Old 10-10-2016, 01:40 PM   #13
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Re: Making music

If you're making music front to end yourself I don't think mastering means anything.

You can complete a track in one session without mastering consideration.

Put whatever you want on the master to get the track sounding best.

Mastering is only relevant if you're expecting a second party to process your tracks in any way.

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Old 10-10-2016, 01:47 PM   #14
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by Focalized View Post
If you're making music front to end yourself I don't think mastering means anything.

You can complete a track in one session without mastering consideration.

Put whatever you want on the master to get the track sounding best.

Mastering is only relevant if you're expecting a second party to process your tracks in any way.
Probably you are right
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Old 11-10-2016, 12:17 AM   #15
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Re: Making music

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmusician View Post
We end up discussing everything.

My perspective: people say that a piece of art is not finished until the artist walks away.

Mixing CAN be done simply using the volumes on each instrument channel. It may not be a full, developed mix with each individual sound tuned to perfection, however it does create a mix.

So once the mix is considered satisfactory to the artist, implementing effects to master to their idea of what the track should sound like would create a master. Of what quality? Well, that's a matter for the listener to determine.

I'm putting things this way because people seem to think because there's a theory to music/musicianship/production that there's the way and anything that doesn't abide becomes shit.

If you make a track and then route everything and effect everything properly, there's a chance the music will sound more powerful.
I was kinda joking... There are some that will argue that only a small number of humans on the planet are capable of truly "mastering" music, and they may well be right. I mean... Who here can afford to spend 20,000 or more on getting the right equipment and room treatment. And even then have the necessary skills.

As for me... I "master" my own stuff. Can't afford to get the "experts" in. I'm certainly a lot better at it than I was 18 months ago when I didn't even know what a "spectral slope" was.

cheers

andy
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:21 AM   #16
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by synkrotron View Post
I was kinda joking... There are some that will argue that only a small number of humans on the planet are capable of truly "mastering" music, and they may well be right. I mean... Who here can afford to spend 20,000 or more on getting the right equipment and room treatment. And even then have the necessary skills.

As for me... I "master" my own stuff. Can't afford to get the "experts" in. I'm certainly a lot better at it than I was 18 months ago when I didn't even know what a "spectral slope" was.

cheers

andy
No one can argue with that, but all of us want to make best sounding tracks as we can, and my opinion is thta is stupid to playing to master your tracks if your goal is to release music on some label, and it is their job to do that... Only if you release your own stuff digitaly or phisicly you need to master them, or if you want to play them out
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:40 AM   #17
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Re: Making music

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Originally Posted by foilmusiq View Post
and my opinion is thta is stupid to playing to master your tracks if your goal is to release music on some label, and it is their job to do that...
Totally agree with that.

I've recently issued a couple of tracks for an upcoming compilation and the instructions are that we are to leave the track un-mastered, with plenty of headroom. The guys that create the compilation will master the tracks to suit, which may only mean normalising to me... Not sure.

Once the compilation is released I will use the "mastered" version to upload to SoundCloud and the rest.

For stuff that I stick straight onto SoundCloud, I cannot really say that I master anything. I used to think I did, but I have now accepted that that is no longer the case. Most I do is try to ensure that the final level is acceptable for the track in question.

cheers

andy
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Old 11-10-2016, 11:56 AM   #18
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Re: Making music

And have to say that onetime my track was mastered by proffesional in one good studio and to be honest there was no too much differenc to my "mastered version" so, who am i, where am i, and what they did in that studio will be mistery

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