Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.
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Old 30-10-2012, 05:59 PM   #1
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Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

I’m confused about how to optimize my current Set-up. I have 2 external hardware synths (Nord Rack 2 & Korg MS2000R), with M-Audio Fast Track Pro running in Cubase 5 on a PC laptop.

In order to have the synths connected as external VST instruments in Cubase they need to be connected to the audio inputs on the m-audio interface. The issue is I don’t have enough inserts on the FastTrackPro to have both synths connected (in stereo) at the same time.

So… I want to be able to get both in stereo (4 inputs needed) and continue to have them appear as VST’s in Cubase. I’m not sure if getting a small mixer with its outputs fed into the FastTrack is the fix… or if I should get another interface with more inputs and feed both synths into that?

If I get an analogue mixer and the synths bypass the interface (for audio), can they still be connected as VST’s in Cubase? Or do I need a USB mixer (rather avoid another USB port – I already have 8 in use at the moment).

Would something like the Alesis Multimix simplify things as it’s a combined mixer & USB audio interface. Plus I could throw away the M-Audio interface which would be nice.

Thanks for any advice.

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Old 31-10-2012, 05:45 AM   #2
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

With the mixer you'll still only be able to record one synth at a time unless you record both synths to the same audio track because ultimately everything will still be being fed through the fasttrack. Not to sure of the specs on the muti mix but one thing you will want to look for is sometimes you might be able to plug in multiple instruments but only be able to record one at a time anyway. I'd suggest getting an interface with more ins.

What's your aversion to just multitracking bit by bit with the maudio? That's what I do.

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Old 31-10-2012, 06:31 AM   #3
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

1) Record them seperately, at different times
or
2) Get an audio interface with more I/O

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Old 31-10-2012, 06:48 AM   #4
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Check out a used motu828mkII.

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Old 31-10-2012, 03:39 PM   #5
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

You sound really confused.
Your hardware synths will never appear as [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
's in Cubase. VST's are virtual instruments, ie: software.
You can however route them in to audio tracks, in which case take Evelon's advice.
You could buy a mixer but you'd still have to run it through the interface unless it's USB or firewire.
Also, don't confuse "inputs" and "[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
", this will only cause hassles later on.
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Old 31-10-2012, 05:05 PM   #6
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
1) Record them seperately, at different times
or
2) Get an audio interface with more I/O
this^

if you use a mixer, they will be mixed in your DAW and you will only be able to work on them both as a whole. if you dont have sound coming from them at the same time that is ok though because you can chop them up and split them later. not ideal though.

also, as lolirl said, they are not VSTs, but in cubase you do find them under the VST instruments list, and you do insert them in the same way you would do with a VST.

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Old 31-10-2012, 05:11 PM   #7
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parricide View Post

also, as lolirl said, they are not VSTs, but in cubase you do find them under the VST instruments list, and you do insert them in the same way you would do with a VST.
You do?
Is this a new feature of the latest Cubase?
I've never done it this way, just routed them to audio tracks.

In that case 1000 pardons modescmoesc for the misleading info.
It seems I'm slightly out of date with my knowledge.
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Old 31-10-2012, 05:24 PM   #8
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
You sound really confused.
Your hardware synths will never appear as [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
's in Cubase. VST's are virtual instruments, ie: software.
You can however route them in to audio tracks, in which case take Evelon's advice.
You could buy a mixer but you'd still have to run it through the interface unless it's USB or firewire.
Also, don't confuse "inputs" and "[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
", this will only cause hassles later on.
This.

[Computer] <<< [Audio Interface] <<<stereo in<<<<[Mixer (w/ multiple channels for multiple instruments]<<<<<various instruments

With only stereo inputs on your AI, you will only be able to record 2 channels at the same time - left and right - so two mono signals, or one stereo. So even if you have 10 instruments running into your mixer, you won't be able to record 10 separate channels unless your AI has multiple inputs.

I do most of my recording like that.

If you want to be able to automate the various MIDI parameters of your hardware via your DAW, you'll want to run MIDI I/O from your AI and instruments.
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Old 31-10-2012, 06:07 PM   #9
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Thanks for the replies... all of which makes sense. It's probably me referring to my external instruments' as VST's that led to confusion.... but yea, in this way you can add VST effects just like you would with any VST instrument... and (in theory) bounce down the audio which is very cool, especially with the Nord as it has no internal effects... that's why I want to keep that functionality.

I know I can track multitrack the synths separately with my current set-up, but I really don't like messing about with the cables. Seems every time I unplug something.. it fails somewhere else. I'd like a permanent set-up with no cable switching.

I'm wondering if one of the new mixer/audio interfaces wouldn't offer an elegant solution... I see the Alesis MultiMix 8 USB 2.0 offers 24–bit/44.1–96kHz recording... also the Allen & Heath ZED -10fx offers 24–bit/48kHz. These look sexy and does the job of 2 boxes in one. I'm not fussed about the quality of the pre-amps - they won't get used much, if at all.

From what I've researched so far, the A & H, cannot record each of its mixer tracks to its own tracks in cubase. it only outputs to stereo. But the Alesis MultiMix can... that looks kinda interesting... of course going that route I'd also need a midi interface to replace the midi on my FastTrackPro... which is a piece of crap anyway. Any thoughts on taking that route... I know it's not exactly high end gear... but looks like the recording quality would be reasonable.... or not?

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Old 31-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #10
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
You do?
Is this a new feature of the latest Cubase?
I've never done it this way, just routed them to audio tracks.

In that case 1000 pardons modescmoesc for the misleading info.
It seems I'm slightly out of date with my knowledge.
im using cubase 5, and in that version you load it the same way you would a VST. it even comes under the VST instruments list. its easier, but very misleading

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Old 31-10-2012, 06:18 PM   #11
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

another thing you could consider...
hook one of your instruments to the audio inputs and the other to the MIDI in and out.
when you are playing both at the same time you can record the audio from one and the MIDI from the other.
once you have recorded them, plug the instrument that was sending MIDI in to the audio input and simply play the MIDI back while recording the audio.
that way you know you will get the same recording as you would have if you was recording the audio.
does that make sense?

the only problem with that is that you will have to adjust all your knobs again if you are doing that live. unless your instruments support MIDI send/receive for the knobs too?

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Old 31-10-2012, 11:00 PM   #12
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parricide View Post
another thing you could consider...
hook one of your instruments to the audio inputs and the other to the MIDI in and out.
when you are playing both at the same time you can record the audio from one and the MIDI from the other.
once you have recorded them, plug the instrument that was sending MIDI in to the audio input and simply play the MIDI back while recording the audio.

the only problem with that is that you will have to adjust all your knobs again if you are doing that live. unless your instruments support MIDI send/receive for the knobs too?
Both the Nord and Korg MS2K transmit and receive midi via their knobs.... but the above suggestion isn't ideal for me.... hence my last post:

Quote:
I know I can track multitrack the synths separately with my current set-up, but I really don't like messing about with the cables. Seems every time I unplug something.. it fails somewhere else. I'd like a permanent set-up with no cable switching.

I'm wondering if one of the new mixer/audio interfaces wouldn't offer an elegant solution... I see the Alesis MultiMix 8 USB 2.0 offers 24–bit/44.1–96kHz recording... also the Allen & Heath ZED -10fx offers 24–bit/48kHz. These look sexy and does the job of 2 boxes in one. I'm not fussed about the quality of the pre-amps - they won't get used much, if at all.

From what I've researched so far, the A & H, cannot record each of its mixer tracks to its own tracks in cubase. it only outputs to stereo. But the Alesis MultiMix can... that looks kinda interesting... of course going that route I'd also need a midi interface to replace the midi on my FastTrackPro... which is a piece of crap anyway. Any thoughts on taking that route... I know it's not exactly high end gear... but looks like the recording quality would be reasonable.... or not?

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Old 01-11-2012, 02:45 PM   #13
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modescmoesc View Post
Both the Nord and Korg MS2K transmit and receive midi via their knobs.... but the above suggestion isn't ideal for me.... hence my last post:
ah yes, sorry, i must have missed that. in which case, your best option would probably be to get a new interface if money allows it.
i cant offer any experience with the multimix, but it sounds like it is an interface as well as a mixer. if im right youll have to weigh up how much you want the mixer.

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Old 01-11-2012, 11:00 PM   #14
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parricide View Post
i cant offer any experience with the multimix, but it sounds like it is an interface as well as a mixer. if im right youll have to weigh up how much you want the mixer.
Yea, the[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
looks really interesting to me because it is a mixer and audio interface combined. ...I can route the 4 outputs on my Nord Rack 2, and the stereo out from my Korg MS2K... and record all tracks separately to cubase in 24bit/44.1khz.

I'm just wondering how the converters would be compared to a fairly low-budget audio interface such as the NI Komplete Audio 6 or the Alesis i04 (both of which have 4 channels...just enough for me and just about in my budget)

From what I read, I think Alesis have sorted out the driver issue for windows 7, 64bit.

Anyone using the Alesis multimix 8 usb 2.0 ?

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Old 01-11-2012, 11:05 PM   #15
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modescmoesc View Post
Yea, the[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
looks really interesting to me because it is a mixer and audio interface combined. ...I can route the 4 outputs on my Nord Rack 2, and the stereo out from my Korg MS2K... and record all tracks separately to cubase in 24bit/44.1khz.

I'm just wondering how the converters would be compared to a fairly low-budget audio interface such as the NI Komplete Audio 6 or the Alesis i04 (both of which have 4 channels...just enough for me and just about in my budget)

From what I read, I think Alesis have sorted out the driver issue for windows 7, 64bit.

Anyone using the Alesis multimix 8 usb 2.0 ?
just bear in mind that you can do any mixing in your DAW and you might be better off getting a "better" interface without the mixer. its all down to you of course, but to me it seems kindof pointless to have a hardware mixer which is going to record everything individually anyway for the sake of two instruments.
what is your budget?

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Old 02-11-2012, 02:00 AM   #16
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parricide View Post
just bear in mind that you can do any mixing in your DAW and you might be better off getting a "better" interface without the mixer. its all down to you of course, but to me it seems kindof pointless to have a hardware mixer which is going to record everything individually anyway for the sake of two instruments.
what is your budget?
Yea, I can see your point. Just that if I buy a 4 channel interface ( budget is low-end, £150-£225) I don't want to have to upgrade again later (to something with more inputs) if I add any more external gear/synths - I do seem to be in gear lust mode right now.

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Old 02-11-2012, 05:35 PM   #17
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by modescmoesc View Post
Yea, I can see your point. Just that if I buy a 4 channel interface ( budget is low-end, £150-£225) I don't want to have to upgrade again later (to something with more inputs) if I add any more external gear/synths - I do seem to be in gear lust mode right now.
i managed to get an edirol FA-101 (10 in/out) for about £100-£150 (cant remember exactly) from ebay.
with that budget you can get a pretty good interface. personally i would go for something like this:
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there are lots of options though, that was just a quick search. and remember, ebay is your friend

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Old 02-11-2012, 06:09 PM   #18
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

Or this...

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Old 02-11-2012, 06:40 PM   #19
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

you could also get a patch bay along with a new interface, i think behringer makes a quality one for about 50 bucks(can't remember if that was 50 dollars or pound or euro but i think it was dollar) and then however many into you have, 8 or 10 or whatever, and that makes changing what's plugged in way easier - you're now using short patch cables instead of long instrument leads.

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Old 02-11-2012, 08:15 PM   #20
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Re: Getting 2 hardware synths into Cubase 5 – confused plea for help.

agreed! but get it here:
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