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Old 28-02-2012, 09:04 AM   #21
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by YoMyEX View Post
Analogue waveform vs digital waveform
There would have to be 44100 'steps' on the digital waveform for this to be an accurate comparison

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Old 28-02-2012, 10:39 AM   #22
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by CowboySaluki View Post
Ok, so go with a higher sampling rate and bit depth and get a more accurate representation of your analog wave you want o so badly.

Most people can't tell the difference between digi and analog recordings these days. Digital has come a long way.

I vote digital because it can sound just as good and is WAY cheaper to work with.
I wouldn't say "easier," per se. I think "convenient" is a better description of digital.

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Old 28-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #23
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by unpuercofeo View Post
There would have to be 44100 'steps' on the digital waveform for this to be an accurate comparison
Plus when your analog waveform is released for other people to hear it's turned into 44100 steps anyway...

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Old 28-02-2012, 01:00 PM   #24
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by unpuercofeo View Post
There would have to be 44100 'steps' on the digital waveform for this to be an accurate comparison
In one second, yes.

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Anyway, it's not a "vs" thing, they are just different.

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Old 28-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #25
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

Analog 'translates' signals (like audio or video) into electronic pulses. Outdated technology.. Supposedly you can get a richer 'sound' with analogue, because it doesn't have the error checking & correction that digital devices usually have.

Digital converts these initial A/V signals into binary code, instead of electronic pulses. A big advantage is that with digital a lot more data can be transmitted through whatever means.. and with a greater level of control. It can sound too clean, robotic, mechanical, etc though.

The vsti synth I use is modelled after an old analog synth, though. Actually, there aren't a lot of vsti synths that aren't emulating old analog synths.. Fortunately, they are inherently digital and don't have so many of the problems that plague analogue technology.. (it really is crappy, cheap, and outdated..)

Actually unless you're using a 15+ year old vintage synth or other archaic and primitive device, just what sort of analog technology are you talking about?

Last edited by hellscion; 28-02-2012 at 01:41 PM..

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Old 28-02-2012, 01:42 PM   #26
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Plus when your analog waveform is released for other people to hear it's turned into 44100 steps anyway...
People will pray to their analog gods anyway.

There's no fucking way to hear that difference. And you don't need to be worried of aliasing in digital signal, cause there is always fucking low-pass filter at 22kHz in your soundcard to cutoff frequencies that are above half of sampling freq. Oups that even means that sampling above 44.1kHz means almost nothing? Yes, that's right, unless you are fucking batman or something.
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Old 28-02-2012, 01:51 PM   #27
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

Oversampling rocks!

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Old 28-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #28
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

Changing samplerates to create sounds w/ unhearable timbres.
As far as listening goes: I cannot tell the difference above 44100.
As far as sampling goes: the more accurate your sample, the more treasures you can find.
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Old 28-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #29
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by hellscion View Post

The vsti synth I use is modelled after an old analog synth, though. Actually, there aren't a lot of vsti synths that aren't emulating old analog synths.. Fortunately, they are inherently digital and don't have so many of the problems that plague analogue technology.. (it really is crappy, cheap, and outdated..)

Actually unless you're using a 15+ year old vintage synth or other archaic and primitive device, just what sort of analog technology are you talking about?
It's good to see you know what you're talking about when you're telling us we're all idiots.
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Old 28-02-2012, 01:57 PM   #30
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

heh, On the contrary!

I'm honestly confused by the whole thread!

I can't tell whether the discussion is about actual analog technology or just the sound of retro analog synthesis.. With the former, there is no comparison..

In short, having an I/O Madness moment..

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Old 28-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #31
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by hellscion View Post

Actually unless you're using a 15+ year old vintage synth or other archaic and primitive device, just what sort of analog technology are you talking about?
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Old 28-02-2012, 02:45 PM   #32
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

I think reposting this old forum (I think it was originally posted on planet mu) post might be relevant to the conversation:

Quote:
Author: analord
Date: 02-07-05 03:14

some people bought the analogue equipment when it was unfashionable and very cheap though.
some of us are over 30 you know!
anyone remember when 303`s were £50? and coke was 16p a tin? crisps 5p

also you have overlooked A LOT of other points because its not all about the overall frequency response of the recording system its how the sound gets there in the first place.
here are some things which you can`t get from a plugin,they are often emulated but due to their hugely complex nature are always pretty crass aproximations..

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt fucking write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

Every piece of outboard gear has its own sound ,reverbs,modulation effects etc
real room reverb, this in itself companies have spent decades trying to emulate and not even got close in my opinion, even the best attempts like Quantec and EMT only scratch the surface.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths shit involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.

your soundcard will always make things sound like its come from THAT soundcard..they ALL impose their different sound characteristics onto whatever comes out of them they are far from being totally neutral devices.

all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue shit.
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.

VST plugins are restricted by a finite number of calculations per second these factors are WAY beyond their CURRENT capability.

Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.

then there is analogue tape...ah this really could go on forever....

im quite drunk cant be bothered to type anymore...
so yeah,whatever, you obviously dont have to have analogue equipment to make `good` music in case thats the impression im giving,EVERYTHING has its uses .And not all anlaogue equipment is expensive you can still get bargains like old high end military audio devices,tape machines fx etc just go for the unfashionable stuff.

Richard.

Last edited by Delinquent Dialect; 28-02-2012 at 02:54 PM..

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Old 28-02-2012, 03:58 PM   #33
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by Voyac View Post
People will pray to their analog gods anyway.

There's no fucking way to hear that difference. And you don't need to be worried of aliasing in digital signal, cause there is always fucking low-pass filter at 22kHz in your soundcard to cutoff frequencies that are above half of sampling freq. Oups that even means that sampling above 44.1kHz means almost nothing? Yes, that's right, unless you are fucking batman or something.
True but do you know the reasons for oversampling?
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Old 28-02-2012, 04:01 PM   #34
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by YoMyEX View Post
I wouldn't say "easier," per se. I think "convenient" is a better description of digital.
never said easier, said cheaper, and cheaper is more convenient.
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Old 28-02-2012, 04:02 PM   #35
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyac View Post
People will pray to their analog gods anyway.

There's no fucking way to hear that difference. And you don't need to be worried of aliasing in digital signal, cause there is always fucking low-pass filter at 22kHz in your soundcard to cutoff frequencies that are above half of sampling freq. Oups that even means that sampling above 44.1kHz means almost nothing? Yes, that's right, unless you are fucking batman or something.
i dont know anything, but im going to go out on a limb here and say that that's bollocks

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Old 28-02-2012, 05:05 PM   #36
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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True but do you know the reasons for oversampling?
Sure. It's CHEAPER.
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Old 28-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #37
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by FunkMasterBrown View Post
i dont know anything, but im going to go out on a limb here and say that that's bollocks
Indeed. 44.1 was Nyquists "probably about this much" guess from the 20s.
Can't see there being much point over 96k unless you actually ARE a bat though.

It's like 32bit dynamic range.. Pointless for the human ear.

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Old 28-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #38
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

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Originally Posted by Voyac View Post
Sure. It's CHEAPER.
wut? Sense that makes none.
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Old 28-02-2012, 05:09 PM   #39
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

You can oversample signal or build a good filter to prevent aliasing. Accurate filters with precise characteristics set up in 22kHz had to be more expensive that increasing sampling rate in DPS processor, right. Ofc you r using then cheaper filter.
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Old 28-02-2012, 05:19 PM   #40
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Re: Analog vs. Digital

Google nyquists theorem and you'll see the real world physics reasons for why it's 44.1 and why 44.1 isn't quite enough.

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