[Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)
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Old 26-11-2016, 05:59 PM   #1
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Icon5 [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Well the title can be a little bit confusing, so I explain: me and my brother are currently setting up a live set, and we are at the mixing phase. The live set is meant to be played loud on big sound systems (I mean whatever bigger than my 5' monitors...) and since I'm not really confident with the way I mix, I would like some thought on the way it sounds from people who are better than me at mixing (and I now there is a lot of these people) and who know how it may sound in a live situation (weddings, bar mitzvah, wherever we will be asked to play).

So I rendered a "live tool" of the first track which is basically the stems all at once (nothing on the master channel) without the processing that we will be doing in live (mainly filtering, kaoss pad random effects, volume automation, punching the Big Muff Pi switch...). It doesn't really sound like a real song but the point is not here, it's all about the stems fits together.

So if someone have some tips to make it sound good on bad sounding sound systems, that would be great!

EDIT: I had some trouble with the SC private link, this should be fixed now...

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Last edited by Sons of Achab; 28-11-2016 at 08:16 PM..

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Rate this track - [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!).
Old 28-11-2016, 09:35 AM   #2
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Check the link. I get this message - You have not provided a valid SoundCloud URL

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Old 28-11-2016, 08:18 PM   #3
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

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Check the link. I get this message - You have not provided a valid SoundCloud URL
How well... Sorry. Is this working now?

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Old 28-11-2016, 08:37 PM   #4
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Nice one!

The break sounds a bit plain, add some distortion! This will boost the highs and add some grit & drive.

The lead synths sound good to me

The pads in the background are swallowed a bit in the mix, perhaps add some dB, or EQ out the mids & gain the higher frequencies

That sub I can hear (is it part of the kick drum?) makes the upper-low end a bit muddy, perhaps lower the volume of it or EQ out its upper-low frequencies.

Just what I'd do. Hope this helps!
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Old 30-11-2016, 04:39 PM   #5
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

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Originally Posted by juventae View Post
Nice one!

The break sounds a bit plain, add some distortion! This will boost the highs and add some grit & drive.

The lead synths sound good to me

The pads in the background are swallowed a bit in the mix, perhaps add some dB, or EQ out the mids & gain the higher frequencies

That sub I can hear (is it part of the kick drum?) makes the upper-low end a bit muddy, perhaps lower the volume of it or EQ out its upper-low frequencies.

Just what I'd do. Hope this helps!
Thanks for feedback, I'll try what you said. And yes, the sub is part of the kick. In fact I layered two kicks, and one one them is really muddy because it was processed on my pedal board... ( mainly Turbo rat distortion and Strymon's Flint reverb).

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Old 30-11-2016, 09:47 PM   #6
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

I think your amen break could come up in the mix, maybe hit it with some high mid to high end distortion, but just a touch to get it to pop out a bit more in the mix.

for shitty PA's i would recommend having some sort of EQ last in your chain so you can make changes based on the PA or the room you happen to be playing in.


:edit: i do the eq thing, but i tend to send 2-4 stereo stems to a mix engineer live. i'll have eq's on the outputs off all of those pairs to compensate for rooms n PA's n stuff.

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Old 01-12-2016, 12:08 PM   #7
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Thanks for the inputs!

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Originally Posted by chasedobson View Post
I think your amen break could come up in the mix, maybe hit it with some high mid to high end distortion, but just a touch to get it to pop out a bit more in the mix.
Yes I agree, but I intentionally left the amen beat completely dry because it's not really a stem, it's sort of a midi drum machine that I will play live and add many effects on it. Hmmm now that I'm thinking about it maybe it's not a good idea to mix without these effects...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasedobson View Post
for shitty PA's i would recommend having some sort of EQ last in your chain so you can make changes based on the PA or the room you happen to be playing in.
I'm considering putting a very light mastering chain on my master channel, consisting in a glue compressor + EQ + limiter. So I can adapt the EQing to the room as you said.

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Old 01-12-2016, 07:13 PM   #8
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

i really want to see a video of you guys playing this at a wedding. i think it would fit nicely between YMCA and Lady in Red.

you guys better deliver.
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:05 PM   #9
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

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i really want to see a video of you guys playing this at a wedding. i think it would fit nicely between YMCA and Lady in Red.

you guys better deliver.
If people at the wedding are drunk enough, nobody will notice. That's our secret.

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Old 04-01-2017, 07:45 PM   #10
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

You need more variation of the break beat. It was kind of an odd fit anyway if you ask me. The soundscape is ok
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Old 04-01-2017, 09:07 PM   #11
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

i do really like what your doing here and it makes total sense... will you be showing us here the final result? i will definatley look out for this

can i ask. where are you playing? what sort of audience is it?
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Old 05-01-2017, 10:33 AM   #12
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matech View Post
You need more variation of the break beat. It was kind of an odd fit anyway if you ask me. The soundscape is ok
The break beat will be played live on a sort of midi drum machine, in addition of many effects like loopers and stuff, so yes, there will be more variation!

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i do really like what your doing here and it makes total sense... will you be showing us here the final result? i will definatley look out for this

can i ask. where are you playing? what sort of audience is it?
Wow thanks! Of course I will post the final result. I have two songs left to mix before the live set is complete, and then we will be ready to play it, and post it here.

The first shows will be in the deep french countryside, and the audience will mainly be friends (early boards of canada style ). Then when we have more experience with this live set, we will play in the city I live in (Toulouse). There's a great underground scene here, and I have friends that are part of it, so it won't be a difficulty to find places where to play that kind of music I think...

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Old 05-01-2017, 06:07 PM   #13
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

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Originally Posted by Sons of Achab View Post



Wow thanks! Of course I will post the final result. I have two songs left to mix before the live set is complete, and then we will be ready to play it, and post it here.

The first shows will be in the deep french countryside, and the audience will mainly be friends (early boards of canada style ). Then when we have more experience with this live set, we will play in the city I live in (Toulouse). There's a great underground scene here, and I have friends that are part of it, so it won't be a difficulty to find places where to play that kind of music I think...

BOARDS OF CANADA ! YES!!!

im looking forward to it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 10:56 PM   #14
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

First and foremost.
You need a main phrase. All you have is a sub-phrase.
Take your 0'53'' to ~1'15'' section, cut it, move it off to the side, build a melody over the top with a harsh lead that does something "grungy" without getting too terribly loud, but has a SIMPLE and nice hook to it.
I made a quick example on a browser based synth app:
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But whatever you prefer; that's just to get the ball rolling on the idea of what I mean.
Whatever you come up with, make sure to push it to the forefront clearly above the rest of the music (not just in volume; I mean in it's sound).

0'00'' - 0'43''
Good introduction; don't change anything in that!

0'43'
Don't drop the bass and make this thin. You already had an introduction, there's no gain in redoing another introduction.
Don't even do this part - cut it and save it as an "after the main phrase" fill; or main phrase outro.
Drop your main phrase here for a short amount of time - like one loop, or even a half of its full loop as a teaser and then retreat to your current sounds that you have (what I would call your sub-phrase).

You would loop back to 0'53'' from the teaser main phrase.

0'53'' to ~1'15''
This is what I would call your sub-phrase, fyi. This is the backbone of your song. Everything else you have is textures added on top of that, variously.
Even use this, but only this, as the backing for the main phrase (which is your backbone with a melody slapped on it and some more active drums).

1'35''
Too harsh of a transition; you need to take the drums and roll us into a break like that and toss some sort of cymbal or resonating note that fades when the break on the transition happens otherwise it's just like I was walking along and fell into a manhole.

Take this whole section from 1'35'' to 1'57'', cut it out and move it off to the side of the project.
Not enough time or material has gone by to merit a breakdown yet.
Save it for at least 2 rotations of your main and sub-phrases, then go to this before reprising your main phrase again.

2'00''
Everything in this onward is fine and all, but it needs to be broken up into two blocks of sub-phrase rotations.
As it is, it's just a very long run without any dynamic movement going on - cool sounds, but no direction.


[intro] > [teaser main] > [sub phrase - your minimal version] > [main phrase, but be soft here] > [main phrase outro] > [sub phrase - your added texture version toward the end of your current song so that you build a tension and rise] > [main phrase, let this be full blown now] > [break hard to...] > [breakdown] > [build up] > [main phrase reprise]


That's my 2 nuyen,
Cheers!
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:20 AM   #15
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Re: [Indus/Break Beat] Sons of Achab - Polaris (live tool, this is not a track!)

Wow that's an in depth feedback, thanks theStumps!

The thing is that these stems are meant to be played live, so the parts are going to move slightly. And I totally agree with the missing lead at the beginning of the song, actually this will be a lead guitar (played live).

Thanks again for your feedback, it's very interesting!

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