BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?
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Old 22-11-2017, 03:48 AM   #1
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BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

You had ample chance to choose between three options, you didn't bother. You let this happen. You alone gave me the power to set -
THE RULES

1. You may use as many synths/instruments as you like in addition to the provided samples, but you can only use sine waves. Even as modulators and carriers, lfo shapes, etc. It's sines all the way down. If your synth cannot produce sine waves, you cannot use that synth.

2. You may add any vocal you like, be it your own, your friend's mum's neighbour's cousin, a sample from whatever, an animal, a synth, a stolen acapella, etc. Don't feel obliged, you can do a pure instrumental if you like.

3. You must somehow reference gameshows and showtunes. Throw in a couple of samples, or write some melodic 'quotes', or perhaps write a showtune about gameshows, or a theme to a gameshow about showtunes.

Beyond those arbitrary rules, this is open genre, have at it!


THE SAMPLES

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THE DEADLINES

Each battle takes place over two weeks, starting on a ...Wednesday.
Submissions close and votes open at 23:59 on the 11th day Sunday.

Voting closes at 23:59 on the 13th day Tuesday.


The winner then becomes the Host, and has until 23:59 on the 14th day Wednesday, to post a new thread with a new sample set and new rules.

THE TIMES ARE CHAOTIC AND CHAOS IS GOOD!


All times are UTC


THE CHALLENGE


The Battle Host must provide a sample set to be used for the battle. These samples are the only sound sources allowed, unless the Additional Rules for the battle state otherwise. The samples can be anything that the Battle Host has the right to distribute for non-commercial use.

The Battle Host must create three Additional Rules. These can allow or require additional sound sources, or impose any kind of new requirements.

THE CONTEST

Anyone can enter the Battle by posting a link to their entry in the Battle thread. Unless the Additional Rules state otherwise, any processing is allowed and the source samples need not be recognizable. The Host may disqualify any entry that does not meet either the general rules or the additional ones.
Once the submission deadline is reached, the winner is elected by posting votes in the same thread. Anyone is welcome to vote whether they participated or not. In case of a draw, the Host designates the winner between the submissions tied for first place.




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Old 22-11-2017, 04:03 AM   #2
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Just to clarify, you can use a vocal synth without breaking rule 1.

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Old 22-11-2017, 10:18 AM   #3
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

BEAT BATTLE!!

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Old 22-11-2017, 04:50 PM   #4
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Sehr interessant, Herr Brb..das ist wunderbar! :victory:

(German brought on by thoughts of Kraftwerk. Not saying I'm doing something like their stuff..just thinking of their stuff.)

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Old 22-11-2017, 04:54 PM   #5
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

It would have to be early Krautrock Kraftwerk with these samples, und Ich liebe Krautrock Kraftwerk!

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Old 22-11-2017, 05:02 PM   #6
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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It would have to be early Krautrock Kraftwerk with these samples, und Ich liebe Krautrock Kraftwerk!

Have yet to actually listen to the samples, but I'll take your word for it.

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Old 22-11-2017, 07:30 PM   #7
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Congrats to brb on the well-deserved victory in the last one!

After spending the afternoon listening to old Rodgers and Hammerstein tunes, I think I'll try doing a version of the song "Edelweiss".
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Old 22-11-2017, 08:37 PM   #8
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Comics have corrupted me.

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Old 23-11-2017, 01:02 PM   #9
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Quote:
If your synth cannot produce sine waves, you cannot use that synth.
I think it's worth pointing out, that if your synthesizer has a filter that will self-oscillate at high feedback/resonance settings, the resulting "feedback tone" is a sine-wave. This means, that if you turn off all oscillators and "play the filter" only, your synthesizer becomes a sine-wave-instrument.
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Old 23-11-2017, 02:46 PM   #10
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Does the robot race commentary from Fallout 4 count? I've never really watched gameshows in my life, so I don't really know where else to go... Or can I make up some fictional gameshow commentary using my own voice? Does it have to play a significant role or can it just be like a few second intro/outtro to the track?

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Old 23-11-2017, 04:32 PM   #11
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iyashi Sound View Post
I think it's worth pointing out, that if your synthesizer has a filter that will self-oscillate at high feedback/resonance settings, the resulting "feedback tone" is a sine-wave. This means, that if you turn off all oscillators and "play the filter" only, your synthesizer becomes a sine-wave-instrument.
I'd want proof that a self oscillating filter is a sine, otherwise you'll be disqualified for doing that.

Not even joking. Well maybe a bit.

Last edited by brb; 23-11-2017 at 05:20 PM..

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Old 23-11-2017, 04:36 PM   #12
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuchi View Post
Does the robot race commentary from Fallout 4 count? I've never really watched gameshows in my life, so I don't really know where else to go... Or can I make up some fictional gameshow commentary using my own voice? Does it have to play a significant role or can it just be like a few second intro/outtro to the track?
You can do whatever you want as long as you reference a gameshow or gameshows in some way.

IDK Fallout at all, but if the robot race is an in-universe gameshow, it's fine.

How can you go your whole life without watching a gameshow?

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Old 23-11-2017, 04:43 PM   #13
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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Originally Posted by brb View Post
You can do whatever you want as long as you reference a gameshow or gameshows in some way.

IDK Fallout at all, but if the robot race is an in-universe gameshow, it's fine.

How can you go your whole life without watching a gameshow?
I'm one of those people who was raised by parents that didn't believe in television... well not like they don't exist, but that kids shouldn't watch it. And idk, I've got nothing against it, but now I just don't feel the need to watch TV. I read books, watch movies, do art, make music, do sport and that fills my days up enough. I don't think that'll change tbh haha.

And sweet. It's giving me a few ideas

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Old 23-11-2017, 05:33 PM   #14
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

I once knew a family like that, hardcore Christians from some obscure sect. Very odd people.

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Old 23-11-2017, 08:27 PM   #15
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizuchi View Post
I'm one of those people who was raised by parents that didn't believe in television... well not like they don't exist, but that kids shouldn't watch it. And idk, I've got nothing against it, but now I just don't feel the need to watch TV. I read books, watch movies, do art, make music, do sport and that fills my days up enough. I don't think that'll change tbh haha.

And sweet. It's giving me a few ideas
Did you have a TV at all? When I was a kid, we had a TV, and had cable for a bit until I was going into middle school when my parents god rid of it. I didn't have cable through high school but I got used to it and started turning more to music (although I did play video games and watch lots of movies )

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Old 23-11-2017, 10:01 PM   #16
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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I'd want proof that a self oscillating filter is a sine, otherwise you'll be disqualified for doing that.

Not even joking. Well maybe a bit.
I can't really tell if you're making fun of me for saying something you consider super obvious, or if you're actually asking for proof.
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Old 23-11-2017, 10:12 PM   #17
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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Originally Posted by brb View Post
I'd want proof that a self oscillating filter is a sine, otherwise you'll be disqualified for doing that.

Not even joking. Well maybe a bit.
It's a natural oscillation at one resonant frequency which is feeding back with all the other frequencies dying off. A filter isn't going to do a triangle wave or a square wave or a saw wave. Those functions do not exist in nature, except as the sum of sines, but when it's self-oscillating all the other frequencies are losing energy while the resonant frequency (the self-oscillating frequency) remains.

It's a sine wave.

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Old 23-11-2017, 10:29 PM   #18
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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Originally Posted by I/O_Madness View Post
Did you have a TV at all? When I was a kid, we had a TV, and had cable for a bit until I was going into middle school when my parents god rid of it. I didn't have cable through high school but I got used to it and started turning more to music (although I did play video games and watch lots of movies )
My parent's weren't religious nuts or anything. They were french people who had just moved to the US and didn't want their son to be subjected to what they believed was a highly superficial media culture (talking about cable here). So we had a tv, movies and consoles. But no cable. Yeah, no, otherwise I played a fuck ton of video games and shit. By dad was an IT nerd, built his own calculator as a kid and shit, so when the first good PCs came out where you could play games on them, we would do LANs and shit.

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Old 23-11-2017, 10:55 PM   #19
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

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Originally Posted by I/O_Madness View Post
It's a natural oscillation at one resonant frequency which is feeding back with all the other frequencies dying off. A filter isn't going to do a triangle wave or a square wave or a saw wave. Those functions do not exist in nature, except as the sum of sines, but when it's self-oscillating all the other frequencies are losing energy while the resonant frequency (the self-oscillating frequency) remains.

It's a sine wave.
All my work with self oscillating filters, osc-less synths and whatnot has produced stuff with more harmonics and more odd behaviour than a sine wave. Otherwise I'd just use a sine, as it's a lot less tricky (and a lot less CPU intensive) if that's the exact sound you want, which in this case it is. Granted, I might just not be very good at filters.

I think you can over-think this. Generated/synthesised sounds must be sines. Beyond that, indeed at any point after that in the fx chain, anything and everything is fair game.

Better to ask forgiveness than permission, sometimes too.

Iyashi, I wasn't making fun of you. If your self oscillating filter produces a pure sine, use that. If it's not a pure sine, that is, if it has any harmonics, sub-harmonics, noise, or character at all, it's cheating. I'll not demand proof, your word is good.

It'd be better to use a sine going into a self oscillating filter, then you could enjoy the best of both worlds and definitely not be cheating.

The rules are arbitrary and ridiculous, but they are the rules!

Plus, you know, I wouldn't actually disqualify anyone, but I'd definitely pretend to for a laugh.

Anyway, I feel we should give Mizuchi a cultural education in gameshows themes, just to level the playing field, you understand.

















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Old 24-11-2017, 01:32 PM   #20
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Re: BB68 - Sines, Gameshows and Showtunes?

I'm not an electronics expert, but it's my understanding that analogue sine oscillators and filters often use very similar circuitry, - where the filter just offers more controllability. So in a design like the classic Minimoog Model D, - instead of adding a separate sine wave oscillator, the manual simply instructs you how to use the filter for that purpose:

Quote:
EMPHASIS KNOB
Often referred to as resonance, the EMPHASIS knob takes a portion of the output of the Filter and sends it back to the input of the Filter, creating a resonance peak that occurs at the filter’s Cutoff Frequency. By turning the EMPHASIS control up and lowering the Filter CUTOFF FREQUENCY, the Filter can be coaxed into a self-oscillating state, acting as a sine-wave oscillator whose pitch can be controlled or played via the keyboard by using the KEYBOARD CONTROL switches defined below.
I agree of course that analogue synthesizers can be terribly noisy, and that some designs produce less than ideal wave-shapes, - but that's just what you had to work with before the emergence of digital oscillator technology.

Digital oscillators tend to create problems as well though.

Like aliasing for example. I have an old Korg "rompler" (that uses sampled wave-forms as oscillators), and even though it has complex onboard anti-aliasing, playing sine chords in the high register still sounds noticeably weird and "digital". The signal output has a small degree of noise as well - probably from the converters.

The point I'm trying to make is of course, that even if you make the rule about using digital oscillators only, you'll still get results that vary depending on the design (including VST and DAW software designs), - and that the perfect sine-wave only exists in theory, as an abstract idea.

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