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Music Theory & Composition Questions & comments about composition, arrangement, and music theory. Music rules and how to follow or break them.

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Old 13-05-2012, 08:42 AM   #21
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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lies. we're on the house and "complextro" forums.
the name is just an illusion to lure you in.
wait! where is the fucking door? there has to be a way out! wait!

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Old 13-05-2012, 01:22 PM   #22
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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I forgot to specify by electronic music i meant the now a days popular trend House/Trance n my quote generally targeted all the aspects of electronic , my bad on that

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Personally, I would love to hear something trancy/housy/4tofloor-what-have-you that actually changed chord progression instead of spamming the same (often one note) chord progression for 8+ minutes of 32-bar long phrases where nothing interesting happens.
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Old 13-05-2012, 09:46 PM   #23
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Personally, I would love to hear something trancy/housy/4tofloor-what-have-you that actually changed chord progression instead of spamming the same (often one note) chord progression for 8+ minutes of 32-bar long phrases where nothing interesting happens.
well, their structure is bound to be like that (made out of 4/3 chords), they just build up on top of that, if it changes in chorus/or they add a PRE-chorus and etc...it will merge toward pop colture dance music like katy perry and GAGA (I'm not saying nobody's doing it n we will not hear more of such music in future) just saying it's how this music is, about one note on a loop ), i get you, there are lotta junks out there too that loop a note in a hope of creating a progressive house but it ends up being a garbage piece(Progressive is focused on one melody or progression) but again, u gotta be into progressive to like one

try Moonbeam as well if u like trancy feelings with more changes (they're on same chords all the way, but drop more unexpected sometimes, get their 2 latest albums (2010) Around the world and (2011) Secret.

this is what i did for a change (needs a new MIX though)
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Old 13-05-2012, 10:48 PM   #24
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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but again, u gotta be into progressive to like one [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


try Moonbeam as well if u like trancy feelings with more changes (they're on same chords all the way, but drop more unexpected sometimes, get their 2 latest albums (2010) Around the world and (2011) Secret.

this is what i did for a change (needs a new MIX though)

Yeah that Eric Prydz track was still way too repetitive for me honestly, but I do really like that pad in the beginning and the overall feel of the track, it just takes too long to get to the different motifs of the song. However, I really like that your soundcloud track feels more like it tells a story rather than dragging on the same thing over and over though it's still pretty repetitive. I've just become really impatient it seems.

This is the most repetitive thing I can sit through nowadays, It introduces new stuff fairly frequently that consists of more than a single drum line or something barely audible like that.

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Old 14-05-2012, 07:58 AM   #25
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by yan_g View Post
Oh and if the only chord progression you can think of is C, Am, F, G you shouldn't be making music
Does Em D Bm C with the 3rd raised count?

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Old 15-05-2012, 05:54 AM   #26
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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There's more to music than intelligence though, but that's another story indeed.
I don't disagree I mean there's obviously the creative aspect, the technical, the sheer raw emotional put into it, etc, etc. What I'm speaking to is more of knowledge can be used as a weapon in the arsenal of skills needed to create a song.
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Old 15-05-2012, 06:48 AM   #27
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by Mindsweeper View Post
Yeah that Eric Prydz track was still way too repetitive for me honestly, but I do really like that pad in the beginning and the overall feel of the track, it just takes too long to get to the different motifs of the song. However, I really like that your soundcloud track feels more like it tells a story rather than dragging on the same thing over and over though it's still pretty repetitive. I've just become really impatient it seems.

This is the most repetitive thing I can sit through nowadays, It introduces new stuff fairly frequently that consists of more than a single drum line or something barely audible like that.

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Yeah, geting used to Progressive is rough, I used to only listen to metal, Imagine coming from ''Dream Theater'' and adjusting into Progressive modes lol, It just got me someday @ some point !!! :-/:-/
I totally get you

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Old 15-05-2012, 07:37 AM   #28
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by PouyaDH View Post
Yeah, geting used to Progressive is rough, I used to only listen to metal, Imagine coming from ''Dream Theater'' and adjusting into Progressive modes lol, It just got me someday @ some point !!! :-/:-/
I totally get you
The strange thing is that I used to be all up progressive trance's ass when I was 15-18 or so. Songs that took 2+ minutes to get to any good parts, and were 10+ minutes long. I'm not sure why I lost that patience.
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Old 15-05-2012, 07:59 AM   #29
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

Trance tracks used to have at least three different chord progressions back when I was all up in that...


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Old 15-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #30
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

^That's actually kinda awesome but needs more bpmzzz
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Old 15-05-2012, 08:45 AM   #31
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by Mindsweeper View Post
The strange thing is that I used to be all up progressive trance's ass when I was 15-18 or so. Songs that took 2+ minutes to get to any good parts, and were 10+ minutes long. I'm not sure why I lost that patience.
happens sometimes, mayb lack of enough innovation in those genres @ that time was sth that pushed u away toward sth totally different ???!!! or your brain have grown to work faster n u can't keep up with the slow paste songs ??? lol ??? mayb u'll fall back into it one day, u never know !
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Old 17-05-2012, 11:07 PM   #32
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by yan_g View Post
After browsing this forum for a coupla hours, I found one thing that so many posts refer to though it doesn't exist:
The Holy Rules of Composition


1st. The rules these posts refer to are cultural. They differ from a place to an other, from a person to an other. Western europe music (USA included), Eastern europe music, Arabian music, Indian music, Indonesian music have all different sets of rules. I'm saying this just in case somebody has forgotten it.
I'm not sure if I can agree. You probably mean that different cultures have different kind of scales. This is what my many music theory books say.


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As my guitar teacher says, there is no music police that will come to your house, take your guitar away from you because you've played a forbidden key or chord.
Just a fun fact: I'm not sure about nowdays, but there has been time when interval B to F was banned from church music because it was thought to have some sort of connection to devil himself.
Fun fact #2: Rock and Roll was banned by church in it's early years because of the polyphonic sound which battled against the unity of God.

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Old 17-05-2012, 11:52 PM   #33
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by Johnson Academy View Post
Just a fun fact: I'm not sure about nowdays, but there has been time when interval B to F was banned from church music because it was thought to have some sort of connection to devil himself.
Not just B to F, any tritone. diminished scales were a no-no. and itr wasn't just banned from church music, it was illegal because all music was church music at that point(gregorian period if I'm remembering right?) You could be sentenced to death for playing tritones.

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Old 18-05-2012, 07:04 AM   #34
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by Johnson Academy View Post
I'm not sure if I can agree. You probably mean that different cultures have different kind of scales. This is what my many music theory books say.
Not only that. Different kinds of rhythms and above all different ways of thinking music. Your theory books are a western point of view on music, even when they analyze and teach foreign scales.

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Just a fun fact: I'm not sure about nowdays, but there has been time when interval B to F was banned from church music because it was thought to have some sort of connection to devil himself.
Fun fact #2: Rock and Roll was banned by church in it's early years because of the polyphonic sound which battled against the unity of God.
That is over though. Churches are an unnecessary evil. Rock beeing banned because of its "polyphonic sound" sounds like the most hypocrit thing! My guess is that rock was forbidden because it was a wild black music, smelling of alcohol and sex, but you can't ask a church to be trustworthy can you? Hopefully Christianity has lost most of its power, let's hope that Islam loses its power as well. Now if somebody wants to discuss this please start another thread

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Old 20-05-2012, 05:18 PM   #35
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by Mindsweeper View Post
The rules are there to guide you, not dominate you.
Totally agree with that. Don't think hardly anyone could make music that's high quality across the spectrum without some guidance by the rules, but nobody can make high quality music across the spectrum by keeping too tight too the rules. It's push and shove
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Old 20-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #36
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

I've always been more of a "by ear" musician, and have had some interesting results from not learning theory. However, most interesting results happen when I learn something technical, like new chords or scales, and then experiment on them. I will say that not having much background in music theory can be extremely frustrating, as it can be difficult to have even a heuristic idea of what to do next. Seems to me that the best use of music formalisms is as heuristics that are then subjected to (often heuristic but sometimes blind) variation and selection processes until something new and interesting emerges.
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Old 21-05-2012, 01:25 AM   #37
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

There is only one holy rule of composition:

IF THY SOUND, SOUNDS GOOD. THY SOUND IS GOOD.

AKA "if it sounds good it is good"

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Old 26-05-2012, 04:09 AM   #38
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

[QUOTE=DoBotomy;883370]I've always been more of a "by ear" musician, and have had some interesting results from not learning theory. However, most interesting results happen when I learn something technical, like new chords or scales, and then experiment on them. I will say that not having much background in music theory can be extremely frustrating, as it can be difficult to have even a heuristic idea of what to do next. Seems to me that the best use of music formalisms is as heuristics that are then subjected to (often heuristic but sometimes blind) variation and selection processes until something new and interesting emerges.[/QUOTE

Thank you I'm the same spot as you ma boy what kind of music do you produce? How lOng you been producing? check me out on sound cloud if we're the same style let's get a collab going or exchange tips or sum thing haha
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Old 28-05-2012, 02:21 AM   #39
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

Basic theory helps make things listenable...amazing understanding of theory and composition definitely helps create something magical...depending on the genre of music of course, complex chord arrangements, harmonies and changing keys/tempo isn't going to be of much use in electro. Although that would be interesting to hear something like that!!
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Old 28-05-2012, 11:41 AM   #40
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Re: The Holy Rules of Composition

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Originally Posted by whitebear View Post
Basic theory helps make things listenable...amazing understanding of theory and composition definitely helps create something magical...depending on the genre of music of course, complex chord arrangements, harmonies and changing keys/tempo isn't going to be of much use in electro. Although that would be interesting to hear something like that!!
There's plenty of that already, in a niche genre called IDM. Plaid for instance, or Ilkae. "Electro" doesn't mean dubstep and house only.

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