Originally Posted by Vault O)))
That's a good point. I guess a standard peak limiter should resolve the issue (which I think is what you did, but I'll update this if need be).
No problem! I will defintitely do another version that not only tries to fix the bass levels but also alters the bass instrument as although I do love phasing to death it sounds a lot better soloed when it is that phased than it actually sits with the rest of the mix.
That's the thing I've noticed about a lot of the electronic music I like! Some sounds are very fun in a weird and quirky way but the really weird songs have to be used sparingly in the track because they don't sit on top of the mix well even if they sound cool soloed or with one or two other instruments! You have to be choosier with what you sit the weird loops with!
So, as I want the basslines running through a lot of the track in my next version... I will definitely make them less over the top and perhaps different bass synths altogether. I'll try and math out their textures so they sit with the overall track better.
On top of the fact I really have to learn the mixing and equalizing better.
Also, if my critique sounds harsh it's only because I'm critiquing it as any other song in an extremely general context. If you're going for that videogame OST vibe, you're definitely on the mark and I can totally see it / enjoy it as such,
but without said context (or any context at all) it's pretty hard to offer any feedback.
Oh you've been doing great man! Very general feedback is what I've after! What people like/don't like is fine and while sometimes stuff people don't like is intentional on my part and I like it the way it is it's still worth pointing out because my tastes change as I improve and I often look back on previous advice and take a lot from it even when it's the parts I initially wasn't fussed with because the part critiqued was something I did on purpose because I liked it!
And, not to mention the fact there's plenty of advice you've given that I absolutely do recognize needs to improve. Most specifically the mixing! I am really struggling with it but I'm still better than I used to be because I used to be so terrible at balancing the volume levels that I'd use presets for everything!
So the volume balancing comes with experience but I need to learn to use an EQ better and learn more about what causes a mix to get squashed. I never really use an EQ much because I normally just enjoy low pass on everything but maybe that's the problem! I definitely don't want the whole track high passy instead though because I think tracks sound weird with an overall lack of bass. It's all about the bass for me, but it is annoying when the bass squashes everything else.
And when I have straight up high pass mixed together with low pass I find they conflict too much and don't sit well together. I guess I have to learn to be more subtle with my EQing and have a balance of different EQed stuff in the mix!
That said when I'm struggling with a loop I do fiddle about with its EQ and try to do it purely by ear. I have altered the EQ levels on some of my loops. Not using any particular filter but just trying to mess about with them by ear. But most of the loops are just all low pass.
I definitely need to get better with EQs.
This is especially true if everything sounds the way you want it to sound, which is obviously above the LB altogether.
Haha, if everything sounded exactly how I wanted I'd stop making music altogether! What would be the point in continuing if you've written the perfect song eh?
I'm often disappointed but also excited by my latest song. It's either "This one isn't very good" or "this is my best one yet!" all with the qualifer "by my standards" of course. I try to compare myself to myself and just try to do better than last time.
But do you ever feel proud of something you made and then after you make something new you look back on your previous creation and feel it's shit? And that pattern just repeats over and over lol.
For the record, this is a WIP as everything I share here is
The two tracks I removed will also be replaced when I have better versions of them. I still the projects (I keep everything)... and I am still inspired by the advice I was given on them as well. I just wanna keep this best track of mine on my soundcoud alone until I have something else as good to sit with it. And that will include, hopefully, further versions of the previous two track I uploaded in my other two threads from a while back
Just, do you ever feel that when your latest creation is significantly better than your previous ones then it feels silly to have the far worse stuff sitting together with your better stuff?
Anyways, thanks again for all the feedback! It's so much appreciated! I can learn from even the parts I disagree with and even that's down to taste and taste changes!
I only post for the feedback and although the positive feedback is encouraging and it's lovely to hear the good points I am mainly after the negative stuff! After all criticism is certainly one way to improve!
And it's with the more technical stuff that I especailly need to improve.
That said what is most important of all is me being just as honest as you guys! So if it really is something like a matter of taste (such as a lot of phaser on a synth making you feel dizzy, which is actually something I like to feel lol, as long as it's not the nauseous kind of dizy lol) . . . I have to be honest and say "Well I did that on purpose because I liked it!"
Another thing though is... do you ever find that you get obsessed with a particular sound or musical idea and you repeat it often in your music production but then eventually you get sick of it and are then able to see it more clearly? Like, I love phaser to death but not quite as much as I used to. I used to have loads of it on everything because it was just really fun to do so even though it sounded so alien and bizarre that it didn't even sound like music much!
Once I get really sick of it I may even end up using my phasing sparingly lol even though I love it lol!
One thing I've noticed though is that when you get obsessed with a particular sound or musical idea and keep reproducing it. although you eventually learn that what you have been doing is shit you seem to learn a lot more from allowing your particular fad for that particular sound/idea to end naturally than you do from trying to force yourself to stop obessing with it!
I am not sure if you get what I mean here but basically.... I think that particular over the top ideas in music production need to die naturally rather than trying to force yourself to stop immediately... and trust that they will die naturally as you improve... and this is all because I feel like nothing gives yourself writers block as much as forcing yourself.
So, anyways, I greatly appreciate 100% Of the feedback and don't worry about being too general!
Oh and the reason why I didn't tag it as video game OST style is because although the structure to the music I make is indeed similar to video game OSTs because it doesn't have a standard sort of structure and it meanders a lot like video game OSTs does... that's where the similarities end. The music I make, one day when it is hopefully a lot better than it is now, could indeed be used as a video game OST. But a video game OST is NOT what I'm aiming for. I'm not really aiming for ANY genre or style I just love the music of the band Orbital, particularly their 2nd album, also known as the Brown album, and I just really like making electronic music. That's why I tagged it simply as electronic
Here's an example of one of my favorite tracks of all time:
^^This is the kind of song structure and song length and layering I like to aim for^^
But literally the only reason I aim for it is because that's what I enjoy!
And I'm a huge fan of how the whole album that this track, Impact, is from... tends to have this style where although they, the band Orbital, do indeed often lose many loops at once, they usually only add a single loop at a time. Layering gradually. And sometimes they lose and add. The very slow progression... I am a huge fan of that kind of thing.
And I say "usually" because there are a couple of occasions, like only a few on the entire album though, where they add 2-4 loops instead of 1. That's practically never though and that's fine by me! I love how I get the sort of feeling of going on a journey when I listen to that album of theirs.
Personal note: The LB (and the generous people who offered their ears) has been phenomenal to me for helping me achieve whatever my goal was, so the more information you provide, the better the end result will undoubtedly be.
And I still wish to take on board some of the improvements suggested to me for my previous two tracks once I'm ready for new versions of them! They're still WIPs as well just like this one is!
Edit for the new mix:
Loudness was definitely achieved here, but I think this confirms my suspicions about the low-end EQ work as well as the bass panning.
I think the phaser effect is actually connected to the panning. I definitely intend to switch that bass out for a different bass (playing the same pattern).
Now everything sounds like it's just being limited to the max, even on the quieter parts, and I can't help but wonder if it's a lack of control going on with most of the low-end.
Perhaps everything being very low passy is what is making me feel like I'm inside a closet with a boombox right up against my head and I'm having to alter the volume so it doesn't blow my ears off but I can also still hear it comfortably without getting bored while standing in the closet with otherwise nothing else to do, lol.
Bass and drums are probably the hardest things to mix IMO, and yours definitely sound like they're fighting for room in the mix.
I agree on both counts. The former being something I am learning. It's hard to fit bass in with the mix! It tends to block the kick! I don't think drums are that difficult when there's no bassline around. But as soon as there bassline gets in there it tends to block the drums more than anything! The bassline part is really difficult because I like my basses loud and rumbly but I don't want it to squash everything!
Having the rest of the instruments be tweaked so they sit well with
the big rumbly bass might be another answer?
Big rumbly basses can definitely sound good in music! A lot of my favorite music has it! But it does indeed mean that it has to sit well with the rest of the track.
I definitely think there's a big difference between having a loop you like the sound of and having a loop that you like the sound of AND that fits well with the rest of your track. I mean, if I like a loop enough but it doesn't fit well with the rest of the track I guess there's no harm in saving it for a later track that it sits better with? And replacing it with something that works better for this track.
The limiter definitely isn't even giving your bridges a chance to breathe at all, though, despite the obvious dynamic range that the track itself has.
Hmmm what do you mean by my bridges?
Yeah my track has this big dynamic range but it feels like my instruments are like a small orchestra fighting over room in a f**king closet! lol.
Haha, I'm the same way most of the time. I want to break that habit, but sometimes whatever vision I had in my head just sounds better to me. I think you could actually expand on the mentality of building into a gigantic climax, though, especially with more layers that usher in certain transitions and things like that.
It's something I've been trying to do for years. I used to try over and over and enjoy the idea behind it but suck at actually making it sound good. I got better at reaching the climaxes in an interesting way and was just focusing on song structure and completely ignoring the fact that when I put so many instruments together they all sounded like crap together! And super crowded!
Now my instruments still end up getting really crowded when they all layer up but nowhere near as much as they used to
. So I am getting excited about the fact that the more I practice layering to the climax the better I get at balancing it so (hopefully) one day I will be able to reach those climaxes without any
of the crowdedness.
Layering sounds is definitely a skill in itself.
So yeah, I definitelly wanna expand on it! It's more fun than messing around with a smaller amount of layers even if I'm still struggling with it at the minute! I'd definitely rather fail hard but learn something than succeed at something that's easy but never really progress.
And, to be honest, I enjoy the layering too much to give up on it no matter how crappy I am at it!
I tend to enjoy the building to a small mini climax, then a couple of moderate sized climaxes and then end with a big one... (I'm talking about music still of course LOL nothing NSFW lol) . . . and I introduce at least one new loop with each climax.
Once again, thanks for everything! Next step is definitely to fix that bass and try to make the mix less squashed!
I am especially confused about how the master volume would effect anything when I'm still balancing the output of the individual insttruments. But if it does make a difference then I definitely wanna know about it because I don't like my mix squashed!
I need more headroom! I've always known that my mix gets squashed after multiple loops but I'm only just really learning that it might be ONLY the more bassy loops that do the quashing. But the fact I use low pass filtering on almost everything may be part of that! I wonder if it's much easier to mix in high pass. I don't wanna do that though because although I like some high pass I can't stand a whole track that's very high passy as I love mid range and bass too much. (Although I do prefer treble to midrange I like bass most of all probably).
What I really like is a mix of trebley and bassy sounds without much of a midrange but I don't want too little of a midrange, of course, because otherwise the mix sounds much too harsh like it's got some kind of big hole in it or something lol.
I mean, I like all pitches, of courses. But may favorites are definitely like high pitched melodies and low pitched basses.