"these" substances among creative people
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Old 28-02-2018, 02:33 PM   #1
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Icon14 "these" substances among creative people

First off, i'm not entirely sure about the policy about such topics, so no hard feelings if this one will be deleted.

I had this crazy period which lasted for 3-4 months that pulled me into the shamanistic world and some substances with it. No Ayahuasca or shrooms, this time. I felt very strong rise in creativeness on many other forms than music as well, but it soon faded a bit, as this period ended. After that I had the craziest love drama mankind has ever faced (ok exaggerated a bit, but it truly was amazing), that absolutely killed me. And guess what - love IS holding the power for greatest impact for EVERYTHING in our development as a human, creativeness included. SO I'd say that love is one of "these" substances among others, like weed and ... stuff.

So I was thinking about few things:

1) Does this consuming contribute to better creativeness as a whole in long-term perspective ?

2) Do you feel like you wish you could ingest some love as a substance and then feel the come-down as extreme sorrow and sadness (like when your love gets turned down) which most defenitely WILL make you create some really fucking beautiful tracks.

3) If we could create an absolute and objective data graph showing the success of musicians, do you think there will be a correlation between drugs and success... ?

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Old 28-02-2018, 04:00 PM   #2
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

As long as there is no direct discussion of how to buy/sell you are cool. I am into this discussion. Ill be back...

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Old 28-02-2018, 04:05 PM   #3
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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As long as there is no direct discussion of how to buy/sell you are cool. I am into this discussion. Ill be back...
Please note that I do not ask nor do I need to know whether you use any drugs. Any comments on that regard is on your own responsibility
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Old 28-02-2018, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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1) Does this consuming contribute to better creativeness as a whole in long-term perspective ?

2) Do you feel like you wish you could ingest some love as a substance and then feel the come-down as extreme sorrow and sadness (like when your love gets turned down) which most defenitely WILL make you create some really fucking beautiful tracks.

3) If we could create an absolute and objective data graph showing the success of musicians, do you think there will be a correlation between drugs and success... ?
1. The same medicine that may help you today, can hurt you tomorrow. Addiction is a real problem for some people.

2. No.

3. It depends on what kind of success you're talking about. Some professions are heavily into cocaine, and it can be next to impossible to become a part of that scene if you're not using it yourself. Personally I try to avoid working with coke-heads, but it also means that some areas are simply off-limits (and I can't get success there). In other areas, like the classical music scene, using drugs is generally frowned upon. Showing up stoned or high to an orchestra-rehearsal will soon get you fired. I've read that in Japan, having a drug sentence basically means your career is over.
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Old 28-02-2018, 05:36 PM   #5
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

I think folks totally misunderstand this topic..meaning it's a common thought that the drug / substance in question is what makes you creative or somehow enhances your creativity, when it's really your own emotions that are responsible. Drugs effect you and that effect is usually emotional..either for better or for worse..depending on the individual and their own personal life history.

You don't need to do drugs to be creative. You hit on this yourself, when talking about love..and regarding the same, it's worth keeping in mind that you don't need to be in or out of love every time you want to be creative, you just need to have had the experience..just once. That experience "colors" your creative output..making it easier, hopefully, to communicate the feelings involved through your art.

In the end, it's always only ever you, yourself, that is being creative and from whom that creativity comes. Thinking some external substance is the missing piece to some kind of creativity puzzle is kinda delusional, as all the drugs in the world won't make you be creative, if you're not a creative person to begin with. And if you're that kind of person, then taking them will only make you high, while you think about being creative.

Trust me, as somebody who has "dabbled"..drugs and creativity do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. We're all individuals and the effect of drugs or other substances / influences vary from person to person.

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Old 28-02-2018, 06:55 PM   #6
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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1. The same medicine that may help you today, can hurt you tomorrow. Addiction is a real problem for some people.

2. No.

3. It depends on what kind of success you're talking about. Some professions are heavily into cocaine, and it can be next to impossible to become a part of that scene if you're not using it yourself. Personally I try to avoid working with coke-heads, but it also means that some areas are simply off-limits (and I can't get success there). In other areas, like the classical music scene, using drugs is generally frowned upon. Showing up stoned or high to an orchestra-rehearsal will soon get you fired. I've read that in Japan, having a drug sentence basically means your career is over.
lol this is true. i know some jazz musicians into uppers/coke. God it makes them such assholes. It's a lot of jazz musicians are assholes already.. give em a coke habit and... fuhgetaboutit
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Old 28-02-2018, 06:56 PM   #7
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

personally i like to do a little lsd every once in a while. it seems to help maintain brain plasticity
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Old 28-02-2018, 08:14 PM   #8
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

Everybody always wants to talk about drugs and creativity. You know what's great for creativity? Being absolutely disfunctionally can't-tie-your-shoes cut-off-your-ear crazy. The batshit insane often have monumental creative output, I'm guessing because they interpret the world so differently than the rest of us. I think you should skip all the up-the-nose, take-the-little-pill shit and go straight for the straightjacket if you want to be awesome. I'd personally start small with trepanning.

On a slightly more serious note, I've never seen an actual connection between drugs and creativity. It mostly seems to be people who think they're more creative when they're on something, sort of like the guy that swears he's a better pool player when drunk but really isn't. Honestly, the people whos creativity I respect the most are the ones that can do it dead sober and aren't filtering the mundane through a haze of chemicals.

But the hardest thing I take is an aspirin in the morning, so I might not be the one to listen to.

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Old 28-02-2018, 08:25 PM   #9
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Originally Posted by mnkvolcno View Post
personally i like to do a little lsd every once in a while. it seems to help maintain brain plasticity
A lot of interesting research in psychedelics is happening at the moment. The footwork from the people at MAPS (and others) led to the US Army co-funding research into MDMA (as a medicine for veterans with PTSD) - opening the field up much more than it's been since the US government basically shut it down for everyone in the 60s.

blablablah..

This new study (from a few months back) actually compares LSD's effects on the brain to the effects of improvisational jazz playing:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17546-0
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Old 28-02-2018, 08:29 PM   #10
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

Being creative means nothing unless you're good at refining what you create. It's 99% skill versus the 1% of raw output that people seem to think is actually running the show (personal opinion, of course).

Drugs (including the 'lighter' variety which also manipulate important neurotransmitters) do work for creativity, but they're shit when it comes to implementing skill. If you've ever sobered up and listened to your track from the night before, you'll instantly realize that it was all raw output, which is like, congratulations on completing 1% of the track, 99% to go.

Also, as a highly creative person, I can say for sure that being creative isn't always awesome, nor does it guarantee good music. Get good at refining your ideas; generating more solves nothing (it just turns you into a neurotic mess like me).

Mindfulness meditation would probably be a much better alternative to any type of psychoactive substance, too. Centering yourself by doing absolutely nothing and practicing being in that mindset could potentially 'bore' you (for lack of a better word) into using your mind in different ways. It's kind of hard to do that when you're answering emails, texts, and mindlessly surfing the web in your free time.
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Old 28-02-2018, 08:48 PM   #11
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

I don’t think drugs or experiences that induce intenese emotions really make people, finally, more creative or talented than they really are. If you are already a creative person seeing things from an “enhanced” perspective whether that’s a blunt or a short, intense love affair may offer you some experiences to work with in retrospect. It’s basically what Wordsworth said, and I’ll paraphrase here, intense emotional experiences distilled later by the quiet mind.

While there is a long history of drugs, alcohol, mental health, intense (yet often unhealthy) relationships and creativity it is a much more complex story than what usually gets told.

1. No.

2. No. FUCK NO. I can fuck up my own love life very well on my own, I don’t want to swallow a pill to experience that.

3. No, if you could collect enough accurate data from a variety of perspectives I think you’d find the opposite is true. There are lots of people with mental health issues, lots of these people tend towards poor impulse control and addiction, given this as granted, a lot of creative people are going to be these kinds of people. “No smack, no soul” (as is often said of John Coltrane) is bullshit. Famous creative people have huge networks of enablers that allow them to continue to output art while not having to go through the day-to-day problems of supporting an addiction and dealing with untreated mental health issues.

I’ve walked a very thin line between responsable use and abuse for just about 20 years. I promise you, it has only hindered my artistic ability. And I’ve tried just about everything you can imagine. Honestly it hasn’t even given me anything all that interesting to write about as a poet or prose writer (or a musician). Your drug stories are only good stories for the people who were there. It is kind of like an inside joke, expect it is an inside joke about people acting like morons on drugs.

I’ve had my fair share of “spiritual” experiences on certain substances, but that all fades pretty quickly. Most it ends with waking up sweaty, shakey and feel not all that well...

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Old 28-02-2018, 08:49 PM   #12
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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personally i like to do a little lsd every once in a while. it seems to help maintain brain plasticity
Same for me with ketamine. A lot of interesting research going on with it at the moment as well.

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Old 28-02-2018, 10:35 PM   #13
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Icon4 Re: "these" substances among creative people

Fantastic. This thread triggered people just as I wanted muhahaha.

Anyway, where did the thought come from ? I've born and raised in a culture where drug usage was very frown upon. So if there was anyone who did those things, they were brought as an example of "wrong way of living". Now that I've got into music, its getting harder and harder to find people who are actually clean. I, myself, after this shamanistic period feel better and cleaner than ever before, and I don't miss any drugs not a single bit (maybe the green one a bit). However, It sort of feels like if I don't want to do drugs, I don't belong anywhere. Its as if to open some doors, I have to get into doing these substances.

I don't mind other people doing it and I don't feel the need to be a part of a party group who goes anti-drug, but I don't want to surround myself with all the people who find its normal to snort some coke whenever the slightest bit of will comes. However, more and more it seems like there's no way around it.

So I either have to be okay with people at least doing drugs all the time when i'm around, or I should quit the music biz.

Also, that's where the love part came in. Whatever the drugs might do, love fucks us up and makes stories like no other drug ever could...
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Old 28-02-2018, 10:42 PM   #14
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Mindfulness meditation would probably be a much better alternative to any type of psychoactive substance, too.
AMEN! Having been both ways - some substances and meditation (and yoga with it), I have quit drugs and even tobacco, but still meditate... Maybe doing drugs is the easy way of reaching the same "high" as with meditation...

I have a funny feeling people might start falling off their heels when hearing this


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Originally Posted by Artificer View Post
Honestly, the people whos creativity I respect the most are the ones that can do it dead sober and aren't filtering the mundane through a haze of chemicals.
Thanks man, thats the answer I hoping to see...
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Old 28-02-2018, 10:46 PM   #15
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Fantastic. This thread triggered people just as I wanted muhahaha.

Anyway, where did the thought come from ? I've born and raised in a culture where drug usage was very frown upon. So if there was anyone who did those things, they were brought as an example of "wrong way of living". Now that I've got into music, its getting harder and harder to find people who are actually clean. I, myself, after this shamanistic period feel better and cleaner than ever before, and I don't miss any drugs not a single bit (maybe the green one a bit). However, It sort of feels like if I don't want to do drugs, I don't belong anywhere. Its as if to open some doors, I have to get into doing these substances.

I don't mind other people doing it and I don't feel the need to be a part of a party group who goes anti-drug, but I don't want to surround myself with all the people who find its normal to snort some coke whenever the slightest bit of will comes. However, more and more it seems like there's no way around it.

So I either have to be okay with people at least doing drugs all the time when i'm around, or I should quit the music biz.

Also, that's where the love part came in. Whatever the drugs might do, love fucks us up and makes stories like no other drug ever could...
Being an aging raver, I feel your pain man. I still love going out to events and dancing, but the drugs are “worse” than ever IMO. Everyone is totally off their face on stuff I’ve never even heard of before. I mean I’ll still have some beers and get in on a spliff : ) And I usually go on one or two chemical vacations every year (like the Detroit Electronic Music Festival)...but mostly I’m not looking to get out of my mind on a regular basis.

You just have to roll with it and find a group of people with some who are sober or relatively sober. I did have a moment of crisis where I didn’t think I could enjoy dance music without “hard drugs.” And it did take a year or two. But as a musician and DJ you can also appriciate the music from a technical perspective. At least in my area its pretty easy to find a few old heads at the party keeping it real in a corner talking shop, swapping old stories, dancing (which seems a novelty amongst younger folks at raves in my area), having a pint and generally yuking it up as grumpy old bastards will. For about three years I was goign to a monthly event and usually just hung out by myself in a dark space dancing and bobbing my head while having a couple beers and then bounced when I got tired. I really enjoyed that time alone emersed in the beats I love so much w/ nothing else in my head but the music.

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Old 28-02-2018, 11:26 PM   #16
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Being an aging raver, I feel your pain man. I still love going out to events and dancing, but the drugs are “worse” than ever IMO. Everyone is totally off their face on stuff I’ve never even heard of before.
Have you tried telling them to get off your lawn?

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I mean I’ll still have some beers and get in on a spliff : ) And I usually go on one or two chemical vacations every year (like the Detroit Electronic Music Festival)...but mostly I’m not looking to get out of my mind on a regular basis.
If it's too loud, you're too old! (chemically speaking, of course)



Seriously though, I've spent plenty of time going out to see live music stone cold sober. While I totally agree with everything you mentioned, I will say I've had a lot of the musicians/DJs really appreciate someone who wants to talk about the actual quality of their music from a sober standpoint instead of just a bunch of whacked out kids heaping idolatry and praise. It's lead to some interesting conversations and friendships on the sole basis of being sober and attending.

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Old 28-02-2018, 11:59 PM   #17
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Originally Posted by Iyashi Sound View Post
A lot of interesting research in psychedelics is happening at the moment. The footwork from the people at MAPS (and others) led to the US Army co-funding research into MDMA (as a medicine for veterans with PTSD) - opening the field up much more than it's been since the US government basically shut it down for everyone in the 60s.

blablablah..

This new study (from a few months back) actually compares LSD's effects on the brain to the effects of improvisational jazz playing:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17546-0
Well I’ll be god damned! Very very interesting.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:24 AM   #18
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Have you tried telling them to get off your lawn?



If it's too loud, you're too old! (chemically speaking, of course)



Seriously though, I've spent plenty of time going out to see live music stone cold sober. While I totally agree with everything you mentioned, I will say I've had a lot of the musicians/DJs really appreciate someone who wants to talk about the actual quality of their music from a sober standpoint instead of just a bunch of whacked out kids heaping idolatry and praise. It's lead to some interesting conversations and friendships on the sole basis of being sober and attending.
Amen, Brother :p. And yea in recent years Ive got to meet a lot of my favorite DJs and was happily mostly sober for those experiences. Doesnt leave me wondering if they were a huge dick about meeting me or if I was a wasted asshole lmao.

I totally used to get out of my skull...seeing demon faces in the mirror at the roach motel after the rave etc...so I aint judging...just had enough of those experiences hahah

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Old 01-03-2018, 02:54 AM   #19
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

i stay away being that nowadays for all you know the chemical makeup of these substances could be whatever including rat poison

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Old 01-03-2018, 04:07 AM   #20
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Re: "these" substances among creative people

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Originally Posted by Br/ainfu+ked View Post
i stay away being that nowadays for all you know the chemical makeup of these substances could be whatever including rat poison
I mean.. sure it could be rat poison. But I think if you’re smart about it, your chances are better than ever for getting quality ish. All the guys I know that sell shit other than weed get that type stuff that comes form some Swedish guy through the dark web. Not cousin Rayray’s back woods meth lab.

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relic (01-03-2018)
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