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Old 16-07-2012, 05:12 AM   #1
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Icon5 Basslines.

Alright, so this seems to be my biggest issue at this point. I always have a hard time crafting basslines that aren't generic and just follow the melody. I'm trying to make something that creates a lot of harmony, progresses well with the melody.

Along with that, what sounds do you like to use when you create your basslines? Also, what effects do you guys use on your bass instruments?

Thanks for your input.

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Old 16-07-2012, 06:33 AM   #2
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Re: Basslines.

Basslines are a tough thing, and it really depends on your style of music. When I started with electronic music a few years ago, I thought that since I had been a bass player for over 10 years, that this would come easy to me, but it's a whole different thing producing electronic music than it is playing an instrument. But I do think that all my years playing bass has helped me in the groove and note choice department. Like you said, bass is there (traditionally) to ground the harmony and play nicely with the melody. Generic basslines can be just fine also, you may need to think about changing the melodies The bass line can't stray too far from the "bass" of the chord it is supporting or things will get confusing. Using the bass to imply inversions, and chord movement is a handy technique and can be very effective.

Unless the bass line is the focus of the particular section, then it doesn't really matter as lng as it sounds good.

With This whole "bass music" thing, there is less emphasis on the bass functioning as such. it has taken on the lead role, and just eats up the whole frequency spectrum sometimes.

I struggled for a while with my bass line writing/programming, and I have found that a simple approach is working best for the particular music I am writing now.

I always have two bass instruments playing in unison. One for the sub, and one for everything else. I have become a huge fan of doing FM wavshaping stuff with Operator for the high end, with some distortion devices ran in both series and parrallel, and some other various things to give some width and depth to the high end occasionally (dleays, phasing, chorusing etc).

Sorry for the rant.

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Old 16-07-2012, 10:59 AM   #3
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Re: Basslines.

What kind of bass you wanna make?

To what kind of music?

A thing about bass thats so important is the timing, also how long the notes are played. Crucial.

I go by feel. Loop the music, find what notes I wanna play on each chord. Then I just improvise on the keyboard or e-bass until something comes up that sound good then I expand on it and adjust it. I think for bass, improvisation until you find something you like, is by far the easiest way of doing it.

I do more acoustic oriented sounding bass lines. I wouldn't know how to start with the more complex dub step, dnb, house electro stuff that is the in thing today.
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Old 16-07-2012, 05:03 PM   #4
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by Dataf1ow View Post
Using the bass to imply inversions, and chord movement is a handy technique and can be very effective.
Can you talk to me like I'm a 4th grader and elaborate on this? The "implying inversions" is like reading Chinese to me.

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Old 16-07-2012, 05:12 PM   #5
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Can you talk to me like I'm a 4th grader and elaborate on this? The "implying inversions" is like reading Chinese to me.
An inverted chord is where one of the triad notes other than the root is voiced at the bottom.

So, for example, C major is

Root - C
Maj 3rd - E
Fifth - G

So the standard voicing of C major would have a C note as the bassiest, then an E, then a G.

A C/G, for instance, is an inversion of C major. Essentially this means it is still a C major chord, but the different voicing gives it a different character.

This would be constructed as G - C - E.

I think it could also be expressed as G6sus4 (might be wrong on this), but you don't really need to worry about this. Unless you want to, of course.

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Old 16-07-2012, 05:38 PM   #6
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Re: Basslines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Can you talk to me like I'm a 4th grader and elaborate on this? The "implying inversions" is like reading Chinese to me.
chord made of notes. (three minimum).Ex: 1st, 3rd, 5th
Lowest note is root and names the chord.
Move higher notes (5th and 3rd) below the root note (1st) by one octave.

5th
3rd
1st

then becomes

3rd
1st
5th

same chord, different tone and color.

hope that helps.

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Old 16-07-2012, 05:42 PM   #7
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Re: Basslines.

Okay thanks and yeah it makes sense now. Takes me back to my guitar playing days.

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Old 16-07-2012, 08:52 PM   #8
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Re: Basslines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brn20 View Post

I think it could also be expressed as G6sus4 (might be wrong on this), but you don't really need to worry about this. Unless you want to, of course.
Well it depends how it's functioning. If it is acting like a c chord, you would label it as a C 6/4. If it is function like a an augmented 6th chord, then you would label it as such. But this is all theory- if it sounds good it doesn't matter what you call it.

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Old 18-07-2012, 03:16 AM   #9
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Re: Basslines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dataf1ow View Post
Basslines are a tough thing, and it really depends on your style of music. When I started with electronic music a few years ago, I thought that since I had been a bass player for over 10 years, that this would come easy to me, but it's a whole different thing producing electronic music than it is playing an instrument. But I do think that all my years playing bass has helped me in the groove and note choice department. Like you said, bass is there (traditionally) to ground the harmony and play nicely with the melody. Generic basslines can be just fine also, you may need to think about changing the melodies The bass line can't stray too far from the "bass" of the chord it is supporting or things will get confusing. Using the bass to imply inversions, and chord movement is a handy technique and can be very effective.

Unless the bass line is the focus of the particular section, then it doesn't really matter as lng as it sounds good.

With This whole "bass music" thing, there is less emphasis on the bass functioning as such. it has taken on the lead role, and just eats up the whole frequency spectrum sometimes.

I struggled for a while with my bass line writing/programming, and I have found that a simple approach is working best for the particular music I am writing now.

I always have two bass instruments playing in unison. One for the sub, and one for everything else. I have become a huge fan of doing FM wavshaping stuff with Operator for the high end, with some distortion devices ran in both series and parrallel, and some other various things to give some width and depth to the high end occasionally (dleays, phasing, chorusing etc).

Sorry for the rant.
Hey man, thanks for the in-depth explanation. The only thing is that I use a MIDI keyboard and when I use more than 2 notes, it sounds like the 2 bass notes are actually phasing, or clashing or something like that. Although, inversions do sound like a good idea.

I do like using legatos and adding 8th and 16th notes to transition between the melodies of a bassline.

So far, I've been using operator with small bit of FM, but haven't really added them to a chain and affected the highs. That is something I will have to try on my next track, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crude_beats View Post
What kind of bass you wanna make?

To what kind of music?

A thing about bass thats so important is the timing, also how long the notes are played. Crucial.

I go by feel. Loop the music, find what notes I wanna play on each chord. Then I just improvise on the keyboard or e-bass until something comes up that sound good then I expand on it and adjust it. I think for bass, improvisation until you find something you like, is by far the easiest way of doing it.

I do more acoustic oriented sounding bass lines. I wouldn't know how to start with the more complex dub step, dnb, house electro stuff that is the in thing today.
Ambient IDM, anything along that line. I'm just looking for something soothing and peaceful, yet fitting to the weird glitchy beats. I agree that improvisation is definitely the strategy that I've taken to composing my basslines so far. But, I was wondering if any other musicians here had different methods as to how they go about creating basslines.

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Old 18-07-2012, 11:52 AM   #10
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Re: Basslines.

As has been said, I think the basic idea is to keep your bassline harmonically related to the rest of the song.

This isn't always practical but another interesting thing you can do is to treat your bassline as the root note and have your higher notes built from notes found in the harmonic series of your bass note. I know that this is essentially what the major scale is, but I'm talking about only using the actual harmonic series notes, not lower octaves of those notes. Another thing you can do is build your bassline from undertones of a higher root note. If your bass is your root, using overtones of it should emphasise the bass, if your bass is an undertone then it should emphasise whatever it's an undertone of. Theoretically anyway, I haven't played around much with these ideas but someone has:

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Thinking about harmonic partials can lead to some interesting bassline ideas generally..

For eg, something cool you can do is to have like a sinewave bass chord (with the higher notes a bit subdued so they don't interfere with the bassiness of the bass note (sine so you don't get extra partials muddying it up)) that is like 1-8-13-16, ie a chord made up of the first 4 (or more) notes in the harmonic series, which should give the impression of a single tone rather than a chord (though when you start thinking like this all tones start sounding like chords).

Then what you can do, say you have you bassline real deep somewhere down near the limits of what a sub can reproduce, you can change it from 1-8-13-16 to 1-5-8-11. The new chord is made out of the harmonics that the first chord would have if you dropped it an octave, minus the root.

If you just had a sawwave or something instead of a sine, and you dropped from like 30hz to 15hz, you'd get a huge drop in volume because the root partial would disappear below reproducibility, and the higher partials are much quieter.. but in our case you're not changing the volume of the chord, only the arrangement of the notes, so you're not really dropping the pitch of the bassline, just changing the character of the chord in a way which will hopefully imply a drop into impossible depths.

The only problem is that if you're using western notation / equal temperament, your notes aren't going to correspond perfectly to the harmonic series, it will be a bit off.

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Old 27-07-2012, 12:47 AM   #11
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Re: Basslines.

If I want to make a dubstep or french house bassline how would I do it? With dubstep I am failing to get the exact wobbles when and where I want them, but for french house I would like to know if there are any scales or something.
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Old 27-07-2012, 12:49 AM   #12
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Re: Basslines.

Are you asking how make wobble bass?

Because there's really no need to ask if you look around.

Edit: Here...

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Last edited by RFJ; 27-07-2012 at 12:53 AM..

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Old 27-07-2012, 02:13 AM   #13
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Are you asking how make wobble bass?

Because there's really no need to ask if you look around.


well do you know anything about making a french house bassline?

Thanks for that. I will have to look deeper next time. (sorry I had to cut the rest out or it would not let me post.)
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Old 27-07-2012, 02:44 AM   #14
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Re: Basslines.

Getting a good bassline can be incredibly difficult. It's a combination of many different disciplines and schools of thought - creativity, attention to detail, and technical prowess. For starters, you need to have some knowledge of music theory and arrangement just to get some quality midi programming down to work with. The sound design has to be high quality, an entire separate beast in its own right. The mixing and technical stuff (gain staging, compression, etc) all has to be there too. There are so, so, so many layers of knowledge you need to know to fully understand what you are doing when you use a DAW. I can define 7 areas of knowledge music production relies upon based on my experiences thusfar:

1. Music theory/composition (midi sequencing) - all the musical content of your songs individual components, drum sequencing, chord progressions, etc.
2. Arrangement (macro sequencing) - the macro-structure of your song, how the different parts are all sequenced into a cohesive song
3. Sound design/synthesis techniques - knowledge of synthesizing and processing audio
4. Sampling - Creative use of sampling+resampling, searching for material etc.
5. Engineering - Knowledge of the science behind sound. You can't very well use a DAW if you really don't know what's going on in there.
6. Mixing - Acoustically balancing your music's individual components
7. Mastering - Fine-tuning the master track for distribution

As for basslines in particular, I'e always found it easiest to build the bassline around the kick/snare/chords. Remember that if you want a bassier bassline, don't boost the low end, first take away the mids. Proper use of compression and amp envelopes are key to getting things tight/punchy/smooth or whatever you're going for.

Good luck!

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Old 27-07-2012, 03:12 AM   #15
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by NewWorldOrder View Post
well do you know anything about making a french house bassline?

Thanks for that. I will have to look deeper next time. (sorry I had to cut the rest out or it would not let me post.)
Honestly no I don't know shit about French House production man...sorry.

And sorry for that snippy post there about the wub bass. After a re-read of it it's more snippy than I had intended. Sometimes I don't have the best word choices.

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Old 27-07-2012, 04:50 AM   #16
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Re: Basslines.

im using vb1 alot, with lots of plugins through.. very punchy and phat i guess, but to b honest never experience lots of other plugins for baselines
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Old 27-07-2012, 08:57 AM   #17
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by suncloudd View Post
im using vb1 alot, with lots of plugins through.. very punchy and phat i guess, but to b honest never experience lots of other plugins for baselines
How did this thread get turned into some nonsense about plugins?

I think the OP was wondering how to write and construct something MUSICAL, not what particular plugins you were using to create "wubs" or "french House".

Im frustrated

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Old 27-07-2012, 09:24 AM   #18
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by Dataf1ow View Post
How did this thread get turned into some nonsense about plugins?

I think the OP was wondering how to write and construct something MUSICAL, not what particular plugins you were using to create "wubs" or "french House".

Im frustrated
It says something along the lines of people being more and more interested in creating a particular timbre associated with a genre than the harmonic side of things.

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Old 27-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #19
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Re: Basslines.

Listen to Paul McCartney (with The Beatles and without) and some Radiohead. I like those basslines.

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Old 27-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #20
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Re: Basslines.

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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Honestly no I don't know shit about French House production man...sorry.

And sorry for that snippy post there about the wub bass. After a re-read of it it's more snippy than I had intended. Sometimes I don't have the best word choices.
It's all cool. I like trying new stuff and learning method.

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