Question regarding Intervals
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:10 AM   #1
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Question regarding Intervals

Ok guys, I have a quick question thats been bothering me lately regarding intervals.

Lets say your on a F major scale and you want to go up a perfect fifth (5 semitones), lets say from A# to D#. the problem is that D# is not part of the F major scale. so my question is: is it wrong to go up a perfect fifth in that situation, from a theory perspective. I know that music has no rules but if i were to follow the rules, how could you go up a perfect fifth in that situation without going outside the bounds of the scale?

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:15 AM   #2
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

Perfect 5th is 7 semitones.

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Old 06-08-2012, 06:55 AM   #3
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

Let's clear up a couple of things:

1) The scale of F major is: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E. I am aware that A# and Bb are enharmonically equivalent, but just so we are on the same page.

2) The 5th interval (aka 'V') of 'F Major' is C.

3) A# to D# is a fourth, not a fifth (from now on, I will refer to A# as Bb).

4) Bb to D# (Eb) in the context of F Major would be IV (4th) to a note outside of the F Major scale. Not that it's wrong, but it doesn't follow the scale.

5) A fifth is 7 semitones (as gyht stated). 5 semitones is a fourth.

With this in mind, could you reword your original post? I don't quite know what you mean. Do you want to change keys from the tonic (F) to the fifth (C)? Or just go from F to D# within a scale? Or..... idk.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:19 AM   #4
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

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Originally Posted by YoMyEX View Post
Let's clear up a couple of things:

1) The scale of F major is: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E. I am aware that A# and Bb are enharmonically equivalent, but just so we are on the same page.

2) The 5th interval (aka 'V') of 'F Major' is C.

3) A# to D# is a fourth, not a fifth (from now on, I will refer to A# as Bb).

4) Bb to D# (Eb) in the context of F Major would be IV (4th) to a note outside of the F Major scale. Not that it's wrong, but it doesn't follow the scale.

5) A fifth is 7 semitones (as gyht stated). 5 semitones is a fourth.

With this in mind, could you reword your original post? I don't quite know what you mean. Do you want to change keys from the tonic (F) to the fifth (C)? Or just go from F to D# within a scale? Or..... idk.
ok, you mentioned that going a perfect fourth to a note outside of the scale doesn't follow the scale. so what i wanted to know was, does that mean that i can only use whatever intervals are available to me so that i stay within the scale?

because for example, on beatport, all the songs say the key that they are in. does that mean that none of those songs contain a perfect fourth or fifth if its not in the scale that they are in? or that they don't go off key at any point? because if they did go off key, they wouldn't necessarily be in the scale that is shown right?

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #5
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

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There ya go! Also, that sites amazing...

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:57 AM   #6
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

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Originally Posted by Lito View Post
ok, you mentioned that going a perfect fourth to a note outside of the scale doesn't follow the scale. so what i wanted to know was, does that mean that i can only use whatever intervals are available to me so that i stay within the scale?
You can if you choose to. There really are no rules in music.

If you want to stay within the scale, then you are limited to those intervals in that key (unless you choose to change key signatures). In your instance, any note that falls within F Major is "correct," meaning you are playing "in key."

Most commercial EDM does not stray from their respective key signatures, although there are exceptions.


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because for example, on beatport, all the songs say the key that they are in. does that mean that none of those songs contain a perfect fourth or fifth if its not in the scale that they are in? or that they don't go off key at any point? because if they did go off key, they wouldn't necessarily be in the scale that is shown right?
Correct. Theoretically, they would not be EXACTLY in that key. In most cases when the key will stray, the artist is really just trying to "round off" his song to the key that is most prevalent throughout his/her track. The keys and BPMs on Beatport are there to help DJs mix the tracks into their sets, so dont follow each every single key label to a T. I'd recommend listening to the track and trying to find a more specific key signature then just "A minor." If the track is more melodically and theoretically complex, you may need to find a more specific signature that will suite the track (for example, A minor/C Major/ D Major on Bridge).

In the end, its about the ears, man. The theory just helps it along.

Edit: Is there a specific example you are referring to, here?

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:36 AM   #7
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoMyEX View Post
You can if you choose to. There really are no rules in music.

If you want to stay within the scale, then you are limited to those intervals in that key (unless you choose to change key signatures). In your instance, any note that falls within F Major is "correct," meaning you are playing "in key."

Most commercial EDM does not stray from their respective key signatures, although there are exceptions.


Correct. Theoretically, they would not be EXACTLY in that key. In most cases when the key will stray, the artist is really just trying to "round off" his song to the key that is most prevalent throughout his/her track. The keys and BPMs on Beatport are there to help DJs mix the tracks into their sets, so dont follow each every single key label to a T. I'd recommend listening to the track and trying to find a more specific key signature then just "A minor." If the track is more melodically and theoretically complex, you may need to find a more specific signature that will suite the track (for example, A minor/C Major/ D Major on Bridge).

In the end, its about the ears, man. The theory just helps it along.

Edit: Is there a specific example you are referring to, here?
nah, no specific examples, just stuff i've noticed in general. i just thought that the perfect 4th and 5th would be available in any scale while being able to stay in key since they are as the name says: "perfect" due to their concordant nature haha. thanks alot though man, really helped me understand this mess hehe.

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Old 06-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #8
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

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Great find... That sure will come in handy!

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Old 07-08-2012, 09:12 PM   #9
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

yes and no, you are limited to the intervals to "stay in key". even in lots of classical (period) music there are instances of 'out of key' notes. its more about how it leads to the next note that makes it sound "ok" in the key. sure you might use the D# but maybe if you went down to D the next note it would sound a little "better" (or just matter of taste/etc). like in jazz. they're technically not changing keys, though they play notes that are out of key, usually leading to notes in key.

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Old 08-08-2012, 03:04 AM   #10
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Re: Question regarding Intervals

Considering that we are using equal temperament, basically there are no perfect intervals anyway. Go crazy.

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