Reason and the Others
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Old 22-02-2012, 07:00 AM   #1
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Reason and the Others

So I am a reason user and that is all that I have used so far other than free simple softwares. My friend has a large number of production programs and uses Sony Acid Pro over FL studios, Reason, Ect.

I was curious, for those of you that have used many programs, what you prefer and why. I'm thinking of exploring some more options or just expanding them because of the limitations that reason has(or inconveniences that it has).

I'm sorry if there is a similar thread out there.

-Terry

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Old 27-02-2012, 09:07 PM   #2
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Re: Reason and the Others

I have reason 5 (mostly use that for production of EDM), Pro Tools 10 (going to flashpoint academy, was required to get it, mainly use it for recording and mixing/mastering, and definitely still learning it), and finally, Live lite 8 (came with my Focusrite Scarlett 8i6).

Reason- I love reason, its really user friendly, no hassle of dealing with plugins and VSTs, if you can't make the sound you want with one of the included synths, keep trying or look up some tutorials, you can really make damn near any sound. Personally, i like the digital rack. It makes sense to me, because i can see the actual routing of the patch cables, and I'm a very visual person when it comes to learning. Ive been toying with it for a bit over a year, on and off, and I've just scratched the surface. Im tempted to get Reason 6, but holding off till i max out my abilities in 5. I also like having the rack and sequencer on separate monitors (having the larger screens is really nice) And i like how easy it is to map things to your controller too (just have an MPKmini at the moment, looking at going up to either an MPD18 or MPD26 and either an M-Audio Oxygen or Axiom (probably the 2nd gen Axiom) 49 key for a bit more control.

Fruity Loops - I have used FL10 in the past, more like tried to. I really didn't like the feel of it, it just felt wrong to me, something i can't explain, my brain just couldn't make sense of it. I really wish i could explain it more but i can't, it just didn't look or feel right to me and i abandoned it quickly for Reason.

Renoise - A few of my friends who make IDM (more Venetian Snares style stuff for the most part) and until recently i never understood the program. I now know HOW it works, but i don't use it, or have it. I am tempted to get it so i can rewire it to PT10, use it for drums mostly, and try producing with PT10. The more you look at and play with it the more it makes sense, its REALLY different from a sequencer.

Ableton - I had a cracked version of Live 8 on my last computer (its still on there but i use my MBP now [again, had to get it for school]. I haven't been able to wrap my head around live. Idk if its the way its laid out or what, but it just hasn't clicked for me yet, but i plan on investing some more time and effort into it. (I have a buddy who runs Live 8 with a pair of APC40s, has a nice little studio in his apartment [go to school with him currently and have known him since middle school] who I'm going to have show me around Ableton to see if i can get it to make sense to me.)

Had a cracked version of Cubase as well...Again, didn't make much sense off the bat to me (kinda same issue as Ableton), so i gave up on it rather quickly. I plan on giving it another shot someday though.

Have a cracked version of Sonar X1, never even installed it.

Logic- I REALLY want to get the new Logic. I have a few kids in my class who have it and love it, it looks like an excellent DAW and id really like to try it out, and as far as DAWs, its not THAT expensive iirc. (Ive tried DLing cracked versions multiple times with no success, so I'm not sure if i wanna take the plunge yet)

Pro Tools 10 - Had to get this for school (Recording Arts student). I REALLY like this program for recording and mixing/mastering, and I'm still JUST starting to learn it. Program is very well laid out, pretty intuitive (though not as intuitive as say...Reason...) AND you get the separate sequencer and mix windows, which is great if you have a 2nd monitor (I always run a 2nd monitor when I'm at home, don't have that luxury at school unfortunately). Only thing i don't like is i haven't figured out how to program in drums yet, so i don't use it for production at the moment, might once i figure out rewiring a bit better...

Bottom Line -
Reason is my go to program for production, PT is my go to for mixing/mastering/recording. It is incredibly user friendly and virtually limitless as far as what you can do. (hell, i made a whole DnB song just with chopped up loops and 4-5 instances of Rex with minimal effects thrown on there.) As far as getting the sound you want, learn how to program synths and use the effects, theres almost NOTHING that you can't do (as far as I've found at least) in Reason.

In what ways are you feeling limited? That may help us (as a board) answer your question. I hope my reply helped a bit. My best advice would be try out different demos and see which one works for you. You are going to get a million different answers as far as which DAW is best in comparison the rest and different reasons why people say they like the DAW they do.

Like i said, I like reason because to me, it makes sense, and i don't see any limitations in it except for the fact that you don't have the time warp/stretch feature you get in a FEW other programs (Logic and PT are the 2 I can think of off the top of my head)
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Old 28-02-2012, 08:43 PM   #3
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Re: Reason and the Others

Thanks a lot for that first off. And your feedback is actually consistant with other things i've heard.

Basically as far as the synth and instrument patches go, I feel like I'm missing out with reason.
For example the bass guitar (standard in the subtractor) has to be modded like crazy for it to sound finished enough to layer with a real disco sample. I have also notices that there are some plug-in s that are specifically around, say a guitar, and are almost spot on.

It seems that the every synth that you make in reason always has this fake sound that's really difficult to get rid of and that you can tell it comes from reason. I feel limited because I can't get the perfect sound.

I might just need higher quality refills.

-Terry

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Old 28-02-2012, 11:08 PM   #4
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Re: Reason and the Others

Yeah, well, that's the trouble with presets. No sound sounds great in every context.

Reason is awesome for songwriting/composing/arranging (fast workflow, great sequencer, easy automation), sound design (easy routing and modular design) and live performances (stable, easy on computer, easy controller mapping). Not awesome for mixing, mastering, precision work.

You pretty much can do every sound in Reason, but a lot of things are just not very practical.

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Old 29-02-2012, 01:22 AM   #5
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Re: Reason and the Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryCrown View Post
Thanks a lot for that first off. And your feedback is actually consistant with other things i've heard.

Basically as far as the synth and instrument patches go, I feel like I'm missing out with reason.
For example the bass guitar (standard in the subtractor) has to be modded like crazy for it to sound finished enough to layer with a real disco sample. I have also notices that there are some plug-in s that are specifically around, say a guitar, and are almost spot on.

It seems that the every synth that you make in reason always has this fake sound that's really difficult to get rid of and that you can tell it comes from reason. I feel limited because I can't get the perfect sound.

I might just need higher quality refills.

-Terry
Id go with some better refills. For bass (assuming you mean an electric bass guitar) i think i usually just use (whats on my HD as) Reason Electric Bass or Reason Electric Bass Samples refills.

Nothing out of the box will sound perfect. And like said before, reason isn really great for mixing/mastering. But you can tweak the sounds to your liking. You could just go with the route of recording in an actual bass....(not in reason so much). The only synth patch i have for programs aside from reason (i have roughly 100Gigs of refills) is NI Massive.

If you want a change of pace, i recommend you have an idea of what you're going to try and create, then DL the trial, see how you like it, go on to the next one. Buy the one you like, save reason to rewire it to it though, never know when you may need it (still haven't done it cuz since i started school I've stopped production for the most part, no time, but at least my homework is typically playing with PT10 mixing projects.)
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Old 29-02-2012, 04:07 AM   #6
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Re: Reason and the Others

you should give Ableton a test run:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

it's pretty good for rewiring with Reason!

or, maybe Logic if you're on a Mac, though I don't think they offer a demo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboySaluki View Post
i don't see any limitations in it except for the fact that you don't have the time warp/stretch feature you get in a FEW other programs (Logic and PT are the 2 I can think of off the top of my head)
and Ableton, and Cubase, and pretty much all major daws nowadays having some form of timestretch/warp/elastic audio function. Not the least of these being...

Reason 6!
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Originally Posted by Propellerheads Website

What's new in Reason?

If you've already got Reason version 1 to 5, get ready for Reason 6! With audio tracks in the sequencer, breathtaking time stretch, and audio transpose

Last edited by penguinoid; 29-02-2012 at 04:35 AM..

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Old 01-03-2012, 04:53 AM   #7
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by mimicry View Post
Yeah, well, that's the trouble with presets. No sound sounds great in every context.

Reason is awesome for songwriting/composing/arranging (fast workflow, great sequencer, easy automation), sound design (easy routing and modular design) and live performances (stable, easy on computer, easy controller mapping). Not awesome for mixing, mastering, precision work.

You pretty much can do every sound in Reason, but a lot of things are just not very practical.
I recently started just rewiring reason directly into Pro-Tools. Been working with Tools for years but never really rewired. Just tracked in reason and outputted once the track was together. Since rewiring, I started really tweaking in Pro-Tools and leaving Reason to simply create my sounds. The two work great hand in hand and really don't put too much stress on your cpu.

FWIW... i HATE the electric bass samples reason gives you and i'm still on the prowl for some good refills with decent EBass samples. Any help would be fantastic!!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 06:27 AM   #8
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Re: Reason and the Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonhaag View Post
I recently started just rewiring reason directly into Pro-Tools. Been working with Tools for years but never really rewired. Just tracked in reason and outputted once the track was together. Since rewiring, I started really tweaking in Pro-Tools and leaving Reason to simply create my sounds. The two work great hand in hand and really don't put too much stress on your cpu.

FWIW... i HATE the electric bass samples reason gives you and i'm still on the prowl for some good refills with decent EBass samples. Any help would be fantastic!!!
I just got into PT, i understand HOW to rewire, but can you rewire each track in reason to a separate track in PT? Thats something I've been meaning to look into and just haven't had time yet, too busy with school, mainly mixing a song for a band we recorded in class. Since i don't have monitors, i bounce between my headphones, stereo in my room, and once i think it sounds good, ill play it in my car (which has a great system in it, nothing stock left, lol)
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Old 03-03-2012, 03:13 AM   #9
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Re: Reason and the Others

reason is great, but I only use 5 so I have to rewire to live so I can record audio. Heres my top peevs about this:

Rewire is NOT seamless... cant copy reason patters to ableton track, cant do live automation of reason devices! Those two things get my goat to no end. Other than that its still good.

- Id switch just to reason 6 but then you miss out on the features of live: session view and all those cool effects, which I dont care what anyone says, reason has cool effects but ableton wins the ticket on some of the filter delays and autopan stuff as well as frequency splitting.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:05 AM   #10
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Re: Reason and the Others

Ive used reason for atleast 3 years now and Ableton for about a year now. All I have to say is if you learn to use both programs simultaneously with ReWire your possibilities will be absolutely endless.

I do mostly sequencies of patches effects etc on reason and use specific vts in ableton. For example you make a nice dutty reese in ableton with FM8 you bounce to to audio throw it in a NN-Xt in reason or the digital sample do a shitload of effects chains freq splitting etc than you pile up some nice eq's and distoritons compressors and limiters in abelton. Sample it to audio and the quality will blow ur mind.

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Old 05-03-2012, 12:21 AM   #11
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Re: Reason and the Others

Alright, the more you guys talk about rewiring, the more i see myself not getting shit for sleep for the next few months, cuz its time for me to experiment and see what i can pull from reason and PT rewired to one another.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:25 AM   #12
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Re: Reason and the Others

There are similar threads, though it's a subject that people like to talk about, so I think you're ok.

Reason is a very unique thing so comparing it apples-to-apples with anything else is always difficult. For instance, it's biggest weakness (the fact that you can't use plugins) is also in a way it's biggest strength in the stability and flexibility it offers within it's devices. That said, most people I know who start on Reason (myself included) eventually feel the need to move to something more full-featured at some point.

If you're moving on to look for better preset sounds, I think you'll be disappointed. In all cases, each DAW is going to be more complex and diverse--you're going to have to learn some sound design at some level.

For what to move on to--you're going to have to do a lot of research and playing with demos to figure that out. No one will be able to what will work best with the way you think and work. Just know that almost everything else will be more complicated than what you're used to with Reason (a result of being more full-featured), and that anything will take a bit of a learning curve. It will all seem frustrating at first, no matter what you do.

In general, the three "studio standards" are ProTools, Logic, and Cubase. What I mean by that, is that they've been around the longest, and you'll see a large percentage of producers across all types of music--not just electronic--use one of those three. Feature for feature, they are similar, though there are strengths and weaknesses across them. For instance, Logic has always been stronger with Midi than ProTools, but it's just now catching up when it comes to audio editing. Of the three, I'd say Logic probably has better synth, effects, and mastering plugins out of the box compared to the other two. The legacy of those three are also both a benefit and a curse: they tend to be a bit more stable and mature features-wise but in all three cases, the newer features can feel a bit tacked on since integrating them more deeply would mean ripping out the old code base.

Ableton and FL are still quite common in electronic and hip-hop, though less so in other genres. Part of the reason for that is that their workflows are more tuned for those styles of music. Both have pretty unique workflows compared to the three "standards" above, and many people love them for that. You will run into religious (i.e. hard to actually prove in either direction) debates about sound quality out of them compared to the others, but even if the complaints are true you'll get better final sound out of them than you would from Reason.

Unfortunately, I don't know as much about Renoise or Reaper--both seem interesting and solid for what they do. Both have a pretty loyal user base, so they have to be doing *something* right. Both are also cheaper than anything else on the list, so probably worth looking into as well.

The real task, like I said earlier, will be the research you need to do. Go to YouTube and watch tutorials on similar subjects across the platforms you are considering, that way you'll get an idea of the similarities and differences in tools and workflow. Download and play with the demos or lite versions (GarageBand will *sort of* show you what the Logic workflow will be like), then just commit to one, dive in, and take the time you need to really learn it.

The biggest point of advice I can give on the subject is once you pick one, stick to it for a while until you really know it. Most complex software like this won't really be rewarding until you start to know it under the hood a bit. The somewhat dilettante approach that a lot of people take of pirating everything to say that they can use it, but only really knowing the surface level of each is really a waste of time that gets in the way of the actual time you spend making music. They're really all just tools to an end, not the end in and of themselves.
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:24 PM   #13
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Re: Reason and the Others

I just want to post one other thing about the idea about the "big 3" pro tools logic and cubase. Its kind of like the whole hardware vs software debate thing, both are good but I think we often see the really amazing musicians (aphex, square pusher, boards of canada, trent reznor etc etc) using those programs as well as hardware and assume it has mean that those tools are just better for sound and workflow, but we have to remember one important thing: Those people are ALL from the hardware generation where the big 3 programs also came out and became the ultimate addition to their hardware setups (the same goes for all those people that do movie soundtracks). When all the people I mentioned were in their 20's and really developing their capabilities there was no such thing as ableton or reason or a completely software based approach.

I think as time goes on we will see more and more of those who become "big names" in the industry using a more software reason, ableton, etc based approach. I guess we already are with flying lotus and all those beat guys using basically just reason and ableton and burial using an audio editor....
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:55 AM   #14
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Re: Reason and the Others

I'm pretty sure dada life uses only ableton and plugins....

But yeah, i can see your point. But programs aside from reason allow you to use plugins rather than hardware. I just can't seem to find the right drum plug in, so i may end up buying a maschine mikro just for programming my drums since I'm trying to switch over to protools. I already have a few good soft synths, i just have nothing to program drums with in PT. Only reason i like Reason 5 still, I'm actually looking into rewiring so i can just program my drums in reason and rewire that to PT for my drums.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:24 AM   #15
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Re: Reason and the Others

Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboySaluki View Post
I just got into PT, i understand HOW to rewire, but can you rewire each track in reason to a separate track in PT? Thats something I've been meaning to look into and just haven't had time yet, too busy with school, mainly mixing a song for a band we recorded in class. Since i don't have monitors, i bounce between my headphones, stereo in my room, and once i think it sounds good, ill play it in my car (which has a great system in it, nothing stock left, lol)
There is a way to do it... but it's a NIGHTMARE! Out of the back of your reason rack you have multiple outputs. As long as you have rewire (in protools) set to each individual channel coming out of reason you can track each instrument to it's own track. That being said, I find it's easier most of the time to just track as you work and use playback to create new parts. With the functionality of rewire, you can't use a master mixer.... you have to take the outs of your devices straight to the audio outs and thus eliminating all automation set up in reason. Maybe reason 6 will fix this (i am only using 5) but none the less... still a crazy process!
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:09 AM   #16
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by jasonhaag View Post
There is a way to do it... but it's a NIGHTMARE! Out of the back of your reason rack you have multiple outputs. As long as you have rewire (in protools) set to each individual channel coming out of reason you can track each instrument to it's own track. That being said, I find it's easier most of the time to just track as you work and use playback to create new parts. With the functionality of rewire, you can't use a master mixer.... you have to take the outs of your devices straight to the audio outs and thus eliminating all automation set up in reason. Maybe reason 6 will fix this (i am only using 5) but none the less... still a crazy process!
You would just use a huge ass splitter combi with all the outputs meticulously labeled, right? and then carefully label all the ins/outs in both reason and protools, connect, and it should be good to go.

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Old 16-03-2012, 09:03 PM   #17
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by AngryCrown View Post
Thanks a lot for that first off. And your feedback is actually consistant with other things i've heard.

Basically as far as the synth and instrument patches go, I feel like I'm missing out with reason.
For example the bass guitar (standard in the subtractor) has to be modded like crazy for it to sound finished enough to layer with a real disco sample. I have also notices that there are some plug-in s that are specifically around, say a guitar, and are almost spot on.

It seems that the every synth that you make in reason always has this fake sound that's really difficult to get rid of and that you can tell it comes from reason. I feel limited because I can't get the perfect sound.

I might just need higher quality refills.

-Terry
Instead of using higher quality refills you can initialize the patch or tweak the bass guitar patch. You should usually eq the bass guitar around the 257 hz frequency range and i usually absorb all the headroom in that frequency. I have been playing around with reason for about 3 years but just got into a lot last year and trust me every track/loop you make you learn a new thing about it.

I used to use and rely on refills but you should try and create your own sound because that will help you in the long run. Try eq'ing because that gets rid of the 'fake' sound and makes it sound a whole world better. But i prefer reason for producing over fruity loops and ableton but prefer ableton for live and sometimes for mastering because of the VST's

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Old 18-03-2012, 05:10 AM   #18
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by jasonhaag View Post
There is a way to do it... but it's a NIGHTMARE! Out of the back of your reason rack you have multiple outputs. As long as you have rewire (in protools) set to each individual channel coming out of reason you can track each instrument to it's own track. That being said, I find it's easier most of the time to just track as you work and use playback to create new parts. With the functionality of rewire, you can't use a master mixer.... you have to take the outs of your devices straight to the audio outs and thus eliminating all automation set up in reason. Maybe reason 6 will fix this (i am only using 5) but none the less... still a crazy process!
What do you mean by "eliminating all automation set up in reason"?

I rarely use rewire but I have a template for that, simply a bunch of empty combis, each routed to a different output. It's not that hard to use.

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Old 19-03-2012, 04:11 AM   #19
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by mimicry View Post
What do you mean by "eliminating all automation set up in reason"?

I rarely use rewire but I have a template for that, simply a bunch of empty combis, each routed to a different output. It's not that hard to use.
i finally got it working the other day, just bypassed the mixer, sent each instrument in reason to its own audio out in the big virtual interface at the top of the virtual rack. Automation was still there.... Now that i have rewiring figured out, i think its time i start playing with production again. For a while now its been holding me back just cuz I've been trying to learn PT and can't program drums in it, so I'm thinking ill just do those in reason and rewire the drums into PT.
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Old 19-03-2012, 04:57 AM   #20
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Re: Reason and the Others

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Originally Posted by CowboySaluki View Post
I just can't seem to find the right drum plug in, so i may end up buying a maschine mikro just for programming my drums since I'm trying to switch over to protools. I already have a few good soft synths, i just have nothing to program drums with in PT.
Maschine would be an excellent choice and drums won't be the only thing you'll benefit from:



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