is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:34 AM   #1
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Icon5 is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

there are a ton of production forums out there, but I haven't been able to find any that specialize in dark electronic music. for example, dubstepforum.com has a zillion tutorials and articles on how to make bass and such, but i havent been able to find a single place with people talking about making sounds like ivardenspehere, amduscia, hocico, terrorfakt, and others.

stunningly, the most detailed and practical article i've found is on ehow:

(i tried to post the link but can't due to my post count, just google ehow industrial production techniques)

it's short and by no means thorough but it did give me some ideas as to how to start getting the vocals right, and the frequency ranges usually occupied by the various parts of modern industrial/ebm/whatever.

i like most genres of EDM and i've been studying production methods and techniques wherever i can find them, but have found nothing of substance on producing the genres mentioned in this post's title.

is there a place where producers of heavy, dark electronic music discuss techniques? If you know of one (or more), let me know!

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:49 AM   #2
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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somebody posted this on another thread, pretty cool info.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:19 AM   #3
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

Assemblage 23 is one of my industrial\electronic idols. His blog is amazing for music and equipment. He has a blog where he talks about his techniques - check it out [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

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Old 02-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #4
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

don't waste your time. very few producers making Industral / subgenres know much about production and those who do are not posting on forums. Forums are mostly a useless void when it comes to attempting to get actual useful info, but I would suggest checking out more mainstream electronica focused stuff like gearslutz.com or even dogsonacid.com (dnb/dubstep) and adopting those production techniques to your own music. You want to learn how to get good production? Go to where people actually have good production and where big studio production is the status quo. Sure you're not interested in writing house or trance or pop music, but that's where the experienced engineers are who actually know what they are doing. It may not be identical, but most of the information is universal - how to create punchy drums, big synthlines, how to get space in a mix, how to layer elements, how to use the compressor properly, how to use EQ, etc.

One of the most industrial pieces of advice I've read is "run everything through everything else"

also, Tom Shears' waveformless is a pretty good blog

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Old 03-05-2013, 02:53 PM   #5
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

Dead When I found Her also has a pretty helpful blog, as with most musicians in this genre, it's a relatively wide field from people using everything from really low-end to pro gear as well as the genre/process being a lot of experimentation. You might want to drop by a relatively busy forum that is made up of a lot of musicians and DJ's, where we are generally pretty open and upfront in the tech forum about the gear and techniques without a lot of leetism.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #6
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

sadly my blog (knobs and sliders, production blog from Dead When I Found Her as mentioned above) has been defunct for a couple years now. Just not enough time for such things. I definitely second the recommendation for Tom Shear's waveformless blog -- great stuff.

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:45 PM   #7
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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Originally Posted by worms View Post
don't waste your time. very few producers making Industral / subgenres know much about production and those who do are not posting on forums
^What he said
Take the production techniques of other dance genres, then do it a bit darker, with angry pitch/frequency-shifted vocals.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:04 PM   #8
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

thanks for the blog suggestions guys. I've checked out knobsandsliders, but as the author mentions it's not exactly an active discussion. I already participate on DOA's the grid and dubstepforum.com, gearslutz, vintagesynth.com forums, and a few other places. As i mentioned i'm already soaking up all the knowledge i can, but the complete lack of any discussion on producing this type of music strikes me as odd. it's a shame because i don't personally know anyone else who produces dark electronic stuff, so without a decent online discussion it's tough to get answers to genre specific questions.

anyway, I'll check out waveformless. thanks for the link.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:11 PM   #9
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worms View Post
don't waste your time. very few producers making Industral / subgenres know much about production and those who do are not posting on forums. Forums are mostly a useless void when it comes to attempting to get actual useful info, but I would suggest checking out more mainstream electronica focused stuff like gearslutz.com or even dogsonacid.com (dnb/dubstep) and adopting those production techniques to your own music. ...

One of the most industrial pieces of advice I've read is "run everything through everything else"
I'd have to disagree about forums being useless for good info - i learned almost everything i know by reading forum posts and have been able to clarify most of my beginner confusion by asking the knowledgeable folks at the forums you mentioned as well as a few others. but, you're absolutely right when you say that people who know about industrial aren't participating in those discussions. it's strange to me that you'll see big names like datsik posting on dubstepforum (for example), but you'll never see someone from out of line or metropolis randomly show up in an online discussion.

it's almost like there's an intentional gag order on this stuff.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:25 PM   #10
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

its because the above mentioned industrial genres are embarrassingly easy to create.


none of the Metropolis guys wanna give up their "secret"




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Old 04-05-2013, 12:35 AM   #11
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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its because the above mentioned industrial genres are embarrassingly easy to create.
none of the Metropolis guys wanna give up their "secret"
^Hah! So much this!


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it's strange to me that you'll see big names like datsik posting on dubstepforum (for example), but you'll never see someone from out of line or metropolis randomly show up in an online discussion.
Now that's just completely untrue, Bryan from VAC came on here, it went really well!
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:59 PM   #12
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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its because the above mentioned industrial genres are embarrassingly easy to create.


none of the Metropolis guys wanna give up their "secret"



LOL! i never thought about it that way. a lot of the stuff i'm thinking of is admittedly pretty gimmicky and simple, but i like the gimmicks. I've got a lot of things down already but get stuck when it comes to creating certain sounds. I don't have any commercial plugins that most of the artists that inspire me use, so it's usually a little tougher to design the sounds i want.

for example, the signature das ich snare that is best heard in vnv nation's destillat remix. i've been trying to emulate something like that for a while, but i'm not sure where to start. it sounds like maybe there's a sharp pitch drop envelope on it or something, but it also sounds like someone exhaling. baffling.

and the typical aggrotech vocals - where do you start with this? to get your voice to sound like suicide commando/amduscia/aslan faction, etc. i've tried pitching my vocal samples through two pitch shifters, one up a few semitones and one down a few semitones, then distortion. this gets close, but there's always this "alvin and the chipmunks" sound that i obviously need to get rid of. since all of these guys basically use the same vocal sound, is it just a certain piece of hardware? if so, which one? if i knew then i could read about what it does and try to emulate it. if not, what is the basic fx chain that these guys have going to get their voices like that?

thanks for the replies guys. :banalama:
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:09 PM   #13
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

A lot of industrial artists including Suicide Commando use vocoding for their voice. To get a balance between the effected voice and the un effected voice, trying change the wet and dry signals. I would say, something like 80% wet and 20% dry for that cyber sound. Try reading this blog [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
because it explains how to get a better percussive sound to your music. The gated reverb technique seems really amazing, I have yet to use it.

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Old 04-05-2013, 10:16 PM   #14
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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but the complete lack of any discussion on producing this type of music strikes me as odd.)
It's really not that odd when you consider what a blip on the radar this genre really is, relative to all the music out there...

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Old 04-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #15
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

I was being a bit of a jerk here, but there is some truth to it.

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Old 04-05-2013, 11:24 PM   #16
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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is it just a certain piece of hardware? if so, which one?

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Old 05-05-2013, 05:20 AM   #17
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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Now that's just completely untrue, Bryan from VAC came on here, it went really well!
-the link-
hehe. thanks for pointing this out - i'm assuming there's some sarcasm when you say "it went really well" lol.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:29 AM   #18
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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It's really not that odd when you consider what a blip on the radar this genre really is, relative to all the music out there...
i hadn't thought of it that way, but if you compare it to other genres of EDM i guess i could agree with you on that. there are a ton of bass tutorials out there now because of the sudden rise of brostep in popular music, which is great because since people like it, it's inspiring them to try to make it. i think this is great.

but the aggrotech/industrial stuff doesn't seem to make people want to get up and do it themselves quite so much. people i meet at these types of events usually want to participate in the scene as a dj if they want to be involved at all (beyond enjoying the music of course).

lack of interest = lack of discussion. which is lame unless you're already part of a circle of people who create this stuff.

in any case i'm glad i registered here - the discussions seem to be pretty lively.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:57 AM   #19
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

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...boss se 50/70...

I've seen malcolm gore's demos of these on youtube, the ones that purport to show us how the bands we're talking about get that vocal sound. i was not convinced by those demos.

i can hear how it's probably some combination of pitch shifting and reverb along with some other fx chain consisting of compression, eq, etc - the se 50/70 looks fun but i don't know if i'll be able to make it work for me. if i find one for the right price i might give it a shot.

i'll just keep messing with it and if i manage a decent approximation using free plugins i'll post it somewhere for posterity. it's not too terribly important as i don't sing much, but when i do it's more depeche mode than dulce liquido. and when i yell it sounds pretty lame, hence the need to completely obscure my actual voice like the bands we're talking about do.

i just bring it up as another one of those genre-specific questions that isn't answered very thoroughly in any easily accessible place on the internet at this time.


edit: as i read more about it in various places it seems that these are indeed the most popular hardware fx for the vocals we're talking about. guess i'd just need to play with one to get the sound i'm looking for. thanks for mentioning them!

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Old 05-05-2013, 06:44 AM   #20
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Re: is there an industrial/ebm/aggrotech production forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worms View Post
don't waste your time. very few producers making Industral / subgenres know much about production and those who do are not posting on forums. Forums are mostly a useless void when it comes to attempting to get actual useful info, but I would suggest checking out more mainstream electronica focused stuff like gearslutz.com or even dogsonacid.com (dnb/dubstep) and adopting those production techniques to your own music. You want to learn how to get good production? Go to where people actually have good production and where big studio production is the status quo. Sure you're not interested in writing house or trance or pop music, but that's where the experienced engineers are who actually know what they are doing. It may not be identical, but most of the information is universal - how to create punchy drums, big synthlines, how to get space in a mix, how to layer elements, how to use the compressor properly, how to use EQ, etc.

One of the most industrial pieces of advice I've read is "run everything through everything else"

also, Tom Shears' waveformless is a pretty good blog

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