People who care about the roots of music they like
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Old 24-05-2018, 02:57 AM   #1
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People who care about the roots of music they like

I'm an idiot trying to wrap my head around a conundrum that maybe one of you folks can solve or, at the very least, relate to. This isn't about 'mainstream music VS underground music', it's more about perception or something else.

People harp on 'the greats' or the pioneers of certain genres (with good reason, of course) all the time, but whenever I listen to bands that people recommend me (because I'm constantly out of the loop when it comes to everything, ever) my ears are tainted by all of the better-produced 'copycats' who probably stole something from each of these 'roots' bands and turned it inside out. This is obviously something going haywire in my brain and not theirs, so I can kind of see where I'm an idiot in this regard.

There are also plenty of people who can't stand electronic elements, triggered drums or anything they consider to be 'faked' when it comes to any genre in the world, and part of me feels like an idiot for loving all of those things over 'a real live sound'. You could almost go so far as to say that I'd prefer some cunt on the radio over something like the Beatles, just because it's more sonically pleasing to my ears. I've also never liked live shows because it sounds like shit and it's too loud to make out what the hell is going on most of the time.

What is this? 'Computer brain'? Have I finally spent 1,000 hours in front of my DAW of choice? I seriously don't care about the roots of what I like, so I'm literally always disconnected from what gave birth to everything else. Weren't we all cave people banging sticks together for rhythm at one point?

Feel free to troll me if this is redundant, but I don't know what this is.

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Old 24-05-2018, 04:39 AM   #2
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

What you are describing is the plight of us who have come of age during the era of post modernism. We’ve seen it all a million times, and we are desensitized to some extent. As a result, most musicians are just trying to find some novel combination of sub genres to throw together so that the listener will get some momentary feeling of satisfaction at being able to recognize it. I honestly believe music is in a much sadder stage than it should be. People are so jaded.

My response is to meditate and quiet my mind and look within. I listen to music a fair amount but I get the most enjoyment out of making it. I guess we’re living in a time where the romantic ideal of being a musician who has some never seen before spin on things that blows everybody’s mind, has been shattered to some extent, and we’re left to find another reason to make music. I do think it is possible to do stuff that’s very ground breaking, but most musicians are in such a derivative mindset nowadays, that you don’t see it very much.

Anyways.. uh yea.. meditate daily. That’s the best advice I can give
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Old 24-05-2018, 04:50 AM   #3
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

i guess it might be a little unclear how what i was suggesting relates directly to your question.. so let me clarify.


I say meditate, because I feel like the best skill you can have as a musician is to experience music in a clear, direct way. So, in order to really do that, you have to be able to quiet the chatter in your head. Then you can really get a feel for the heart of the music, which won't have to do at all with where it fits into the timeline or how complex it is etc..


I also do feel like i've observed a phenomenon where the first musicians to do something are the best at it. Or they do it in such a way that no one else is able to recreate. My hypothesis so to explain this is that, if you are a musician who is a visionary, and gets off on trying new things, and you stumble on a combination of elements that's really fucking cool,... you're going to be EXCITED.. and you're going to really be putting your heart into. Someone who is just recreating that is not going to be as excited. Furthermore, this is why a lot of artists start off great, then they get some recognition and realize that if they just keep doing what they are doing, they will get positive feedback. So they do that, and they keep gettting better at it. Problem is, they're not excited anymore. It's like sex.. you can find the one position to screw in the makes the ladies go wild, and maybe you get to be the ultimate master at it, but i bet you won't be enjoying yourself like the good old days.

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Old 24-05-2018, 04:57 AM   #4
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

I totally get it. You like what you like, not what you're supposed to like.

I don't like the Beatles, front to back. Not a single song. I'll even go a step farther and say I don't appreciate their musicality or creativity, and I think music in general would have been better off without their influence. That obviously puts me at odds with...well, everyone, ever. But I like some of the bands they ultimately influenced, so go figure. And I've played guitar for 25 years, and I can't stand Hendrix or Clapton. The wank-fest bullshit just irritates me, no matter how 'musical' people want to think it is. Whatever. My ears, my brain, I like what I like. I don't give a shit what people think I should be into. Unless you have grand designs on quitting your day job and writing cuntry-rock hits in Nashville, fuck it, just do what feels good.

But there's another component - history. You don't have to like all the music, but I think it's helpful to understand it and study where it came from and the context it was created in, if only to maybe understand why you don't like it. Like roots blues and jazz. You don't have to enjoy Robert Johnson or Cab Calloway to understand why they were important, both in a musical and social sense, and what they carried on (good or bad) to music that came after. It's important to know who The Beatles and Stones were ripping off, and why they became so big when their predecessors didn't. It's cool to understand the economic turmoil and political malaise that gave rise to punk and hardcore, and the underground art scene that birthed trip hop. None of that will likely make you a better musician, but it might make you a smarter person, and THAT might make you a better musician.

What you're talking about is something I've wrestled with for as long as I can remember, mostly because the things that most people seemed to like didn't resonate with me, even at a young age. It hasn't stopped me from making music, even with other people, or getting excited about the music I do like, or exploring the art in ways that I find satisfying. And I'll say that while my musical tastes have probably grown more fringe and extreme as I've gotten older, I've also found myself appreciating things that I dismissed earlier in my life. But I agree, it's ultimately more important to look forward than back.

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Old 24-05-2018, 06:03 AM   #5
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

It's funny, I actually listen to older music most of the time because even though there's new stuff that I like, I can't help but hear where a lot of artists make compromises to sell their stuff that are un-needed IMO. Hence, I listen to a lot more funk and disco than I do to EDM. Of course, you can hear the commercialization in that stuff too, but at least the studio tech wasn't where it is today where everyone really has the same precise toolset and tuning and pruning, etc (I have no doubt ABBA would have sacrificed people to the devil if they could get melodyne though). I'm the same with country, where I genuinely enjoy a lot of it from the 60s and 70s, but I can't stand the new stuff. I think most of it comes down to me being a pretty severe romantic, so it's not really reason driving this desire for older music in me. It's just something that runs deeper and it's a tendency I have to watch sometimes and make sure I can, to some degree, justify my preference for the old other than the fact that it's old. I don't see why there has to be a reason for you to like the more refined sounds of an established genre from a modern band and not care for the older stuff. If you're just technically inclined and you want to autotune everyone's snares or something obscenely technical for a living (a very valid option, not being sarcastic), I think that's an OK mindset.

EDIT: Still not sure even I care about the deepest roots. I've been listening to jazz off and on for a year, but I still don't get blues, and I grew up on country, rock, punk, metal, etc, so I really ought to get blues to some degree.

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Old 24-05-2018, 08:22 AM   #6
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

I love guitar music (that I like,) but it took me so long to understand why old men love the blues that I am one now and I'm only really scratching the surface.
Or maybe that's just how it goes?
Lately, I've found the discovery of my own maturity surprises me at times. Like some stuff just suddenly clicks and other issues/concerns just dissolve.
The definition of naivety kind of informs that, I suppose.

If it's any consolation, I really don't like 80's synth-pop or it's current equivalent.
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Old 24-05-2018, 10:10 AM   #7
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

Heh, most of '80s music is gash, regardless of whether it was underground, overground or whatever.

I'm not going to go full timeline OCD, there are books you can buy for that which will give a much better insight than a mere forum post, but a light history of electronic music:

The roots of 'synth' music go back to things like Forbidden Planet and then somewhat limped along until the creation of an affordable synth by Dr. Bob in the '70s at which point electronic music started to gain momentum because the gear needed became more accessible. People like to talk about The Beach Boys using the Theremin but like, the BBs, most used synths as gimmicks for outer space sounds or those disco drums of the '70s.

You'd get people like Eric Clapton and so forth saying that synths weren't real instruments, then some years later begrudgingly saying only a few people used it as a proper instrument, perhaps referencing Herbie Hancock or such. Meanwhile Stevie Wonder was sneaking synths in all over the place and bands like Foreigner were hiring the likes of Thomas Dolby to program synths for them (which in turn he was able to use to finance his first album, The Golden Age of Wireless).

Depeche Mode, OMD and others hit the mainstream and suddenly everyone knew about electronic music. The Human League shafted their founder and moved from underground electronic music to full-on mainstream success. Martin Ware bounced back with Heaven 17 though in fairness they produced only one good album, a few decent singles after that and promptly disappeared into mediocrity though Heaven 17 as the British Electric Foundation did apply their production knowledge to revamping careers for the likes of Tina Turner and others.

Rockers in general just couldn't get their head round a big change in the way some music was being created and that new genres were appearing out of nowhere.

Its not really that the rockers themselves were a problem, its how people work in general so its not much of a shock. In any arena, music, life, whatever, those that can embrace change and move on with it will survive, those that don't get consigned to the history bin.

Music history tends to repeat the above and tbh electronic music wasn't the first time this happened. For example, Rock 'n' Roll back in the 1950s was the devil's music and suffered the same sort of condescension and disdain when it first appeared. I'm pretty sure this won't be the first time either.

'Underground' to me, just means something that is starting and hasn't necessarily hit the mainstream yet. Or perhaps something that has been around a while and failed to achieve relative mainstream popularity. DnB is a good example of this - never really stormed the charts (don't quote Pendulum at me ) other than an occasional offering but its bastard offspring, Dubstep, went huge. And these genres were looked at by people then the same way that electronic music was looked at by people back then. The genre might change, people don't.

It always seems cool to be different and/or ahead of the mainstream so its easy to spot the hipster effect in anything.

Right, I need more coffee.

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Old 24-05-2018, 10:35 AM   #8
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

if dilinger escape plan can cover aphex twin and marilyn manson and some 80's band can cover this

nowadays i prefer the original of tainted love, but at the same time aprecciate dilinger escape plan's cover of aphex twin... so

also this:



if you like what you like thats fine...its not really a big controversy

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Old 24-05-2018, 01:17 PM   #9
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

honestly you just should get over this insecurity, somehow. who cares if you don't care, fuck anyone who tells you what you should like. listen to wahtever the fuck you want. i definitely encourage you to explore all of the genre rabbit holes but if you don't care it not only has nothing to do with "computer brain" it also doesn't matter because you should just like what you like and not give a shit about what anyone else tells you that you should listen to. in my opinion though you are majorly missing out on a lot of good music, so I guess too bad for you.

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Old 25-05-2018, 02:48 AM   #10
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

You know...

This is a great song. I don't 100% like the arrangement, I kinda find trhey might have tried to rip off Simple Minds but whatever.

It's a great song. It's all that matters. Just make great songs. Even if it's only one per year. Make it really great. Time flies so before you know it you'll have ten great songs. That's alright.

My point is that when something is awesome, no one gives a fuck about anything else. Bouncing shit around your head about whether you're being a hack or not is all bullshit. Don't waste your time, your life.
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Old 26-05-2018, 11:49 AM   #11
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

i have a similar view. i prefer the new sound and modern music. the music i listened to decades ago was great, but it has been far outshined by modern technologies and techniques.
i also prefer electronic music. it is far more complex and 'full'. i do like live events, but mostly for the atmosphere.

i do care about the roots and still listen to old music, but i do not enjoy it anywhere near as much as the new counterparts.

i think people tend to get stuck in their ways. nostalgia plays a big part in it, people are hearing memories and they are in love with the memories and feelings of the past more than the music itself

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Old 26-05-2018, 07:24 PM   #12
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

ya'll are missing out, just saying

poopy-di scoop

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Old 26-05-2018, 07:30 PM   #13
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

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i have a similar view. i prefer the new sound and modern music. the music i listened to decades ago was great, but it has been far outshined by modern technologies and techniques.
i also prefer electronic music. it is far more complex and 'full'. i do like live events, but mostly for the atmosphere.

i do care about the roots and still listen to old music, but i do not enjoy it anywhere near as much as the new counterparts.

i think people tend to get stuck in their ways. nostalgia plays a big part in it, people are hearing memories and they are in love with the memories and feelings of the past more than the music itself
that last part I think is really unfair. who are you to tell me that I'm stuck in my ways? who are you to tell me that I what I appreciate, whether it is the music itself, or just the love and the memories, or one more than the other? that's fucking horse shit. get off your high horse, which is shitting. you should clean that up, it smells.

I've heard all of the new music you've heard, actually I guarantee you I've heard more of it and enjoyed it, but I still enjoy the past. but I don't sit here judging you for not doing so.

Last edited by fid; 26-05-2018 at 07:37 PM..

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Old 27-05-2018, 10:10 AM   #14
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

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that last part I think is really unfair. who are you to tell me that I'm stuck in my ways? who are you to tell me that I what I appreciate, whether it is the music itself, or just the love and the memories, or one more than the other? that's fucking horse shit. get off your high horse, which is shitting. you should clean that up, it smells.

I've heard all of the new music you've heard, actually I guarantee you I've heard more of it and enjoyed it, but I still enjoy the past. but I don't sit here judging you for not doing so.
whos on their high horse now? who are you to tell me the music ive heard and enjoyed?
see where im going with this?

however, i didnt say that this was the case. my words were "i think". i also didnt say "fid", i said "people", youre not that special.
people getting stuck in their ways is a fact of life though, as is the power of nostalgia, and i have seen the power of these effects at play a million times before. the funniest part is that people dont even know they are subject to these biases, so what makes you any different?
i dont know you and you dont know me, either irl or online, we can only refer to people we do know, which is what i was doing.

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Old 28-05-2018, 08:38 AM   #15
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

Yeah, burn your house down and build a new one. It's so refreshing.
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:16 PM   #16
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

Way too many words in this thread. People don't want to hear this shit and over-explanation. It like a porno with a narration.

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Old 01-06-2018, 06:26 PM   #17
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

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Originally Posted by Focalized View Post
Way too many words in this thread. People don't want to hear this shit and over-explanation. It like a porno with a narration.
lol... guy walks into a bar.. "there's too much drinking going on in here!"

i mean yea, i prefer cool one liners to big paragraphs that i'm probably not going to make it through.. but we are in an internet forum.
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Parricide (02-06-2018)
Old 02-06-2018, 01:15 AM   #18
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

when I hear a 90's song from mainstream pop to alternitive rock I really enjoy the memories or the nostalgia of the songs. Those wear my first memories with music so music was brand new to me at the time and I think that will stick with a person.

I guess what I am trying to say is I think this conversation has been had many times before, like for example when the distorted guitar became huge people were instantly hooked and didn't want to hear anything else, or when the ideas and patterns of blues first emergaged, that was all new and chopan esk type piano songs or rag time was old school, or when Mozart started writing songs with to many piano runs and scales it made bach type religios chorals for old timers, I mean we can keep going on and on.

I enjoy it all and really take time to listen to different styles of music to keep a good variety in my life, right now I am on a hank williams kick, the month before that I was on a jazzy style edm piano group kick, and in high school I worre girl pants, had long hair, and was a drummer in a death metal band. IDK but I do agree with the meditation, I do it once daily for 30 minutes and itreally helps me with life

alright l8er

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Old 02-06-2018, 01:34 AM   #19
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

I guess I will also add that alot of these mainstream record companies are in it to make big bucks, they will make songs that people obviously want to hear, and the behinde the curtain artists that are hired are obviously professional, the best of the best. when you have a combo like that, songs will turn out extremely well

I am thinking there is nothing compared to todays record companies and technology and the age of the industry has played huge parts. back in the day it seems like things were more grass roots, people were smart and good musicians, but the industrie/ connections/ and tech wasn't there.

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Old 02-06-2018, 08:43 AM   #20
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Re: People who care about the roots of music they like

The industry was totally there and prepared to back bands, develop them , pay for advertising, pay for artwork, pay for songwriting, producers, merchandise, give out retainers and advances, take an element of risk etc.
That is all gone for everyone except the very few who could ironically actually afford to do all that stuff for themselves now.

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