Opinions on the "New" Industrial
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Industrial / EBM / Power Electronics Discussion of music similar to Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy, Throbbing Gristle.

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Old 14-01-2015, 03:06 AM   #1
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Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Hi everyone.

Here is another thought i was pondering and was hoping i could get some opinions and debating. What is your opinion on more recent industrial (if you would consider them mainly industrial) artists, especially artists such as Marilyn Manson and NIN? Do you think they have in any way made the Industrial scene better or worse? and even bands that play metal who borrow and incorporate industrial influence?

Also, what does true original industrial music sound like. I know pioneering artists like Throbbing Gristle and I listen to their stuff quite often, but I do know it has changed drastically. Any opinions on classic true-to-the-root industrial music?

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Old 14-01-2015, 04:50 AM   #2
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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Originally Posted by tjayrusk View Post
What is your opinion on more recent industrial (if you would consider them mainly industrial) artists, especially artists such as Marilyn Manson and NIN?
I don't know if I would consider them:

a) industrial
-or -
b) "more recent"

If that is what you consider the newer industrial, you need to listen to more music, the bands you have listed were both formed in the late 80's, they were big when I was your age, and I'm in my mid-30's now, does that actually constitute the "new" industrial? That would be like calling Nirvana the new Rock music.

I've never really cared for the industrial rock stuff, but it's become pretty well ingrained, so I suppose to that extent, NIN at least can be thrown into the big umbrella "industrial", MM always seemed more like shock rock/metal. Antichrist Superstar definitely had a fair bit of industrial influence though.

The newer industrial aside from all that ebm/edm crossover stuff, seems to be largely returning back to its roots, everybody's pulling out the old samplers, synths, and analog mixing desks. I for one welcome our musically regressive overlords! It actually seems like a lot of stuff more in line with classic industrial is springing forth from all corners of the music world the last couple years, tons of related stuff too, like industrial techno, noise artists moving into more beat oriented stuff, which kinda sounds like a more lo-fi take on rhythmic noise, lots of really heavy, menacing ambient stuff, Anyway, I think I'm just thinking out loud at this point, but to reiterate, MM and NIN really aren't what I'd call "newer" industrial.

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Also, what does true original industrial music sound like. I know pioneering artists like Throbbing Gristle and I listen to their stuff quite often, but I do know it has changed drastically. Any opinions on classic true-to-the-root industrial music?
Do you mean "what does classic true to the roots industrial music from the current era sound like? or what did classic industrial music sound like? It's hard to say really because it started out really experimental and noisy, but it's kinda been tagged onto so many different things over its history it could mean a lot of things, I mean, Cabaret Voltaire, Monte Cazzaza and Throbbing Gristle don't really sound much alike, but they're all considered early industrial. I don't know that you can easily say because it means different things to different people. I mean, for me I think a lot of stuff in the noise scene is true to that term since it comes out of the same general anti-music experimentalism, confrontational spirit, etc... but some people would think it was all the electro-industrial stuff that sounds more like Skinny Puppy, and that might also be true since they were heavily influenced by Cabaret Voltaire (As was NIN, almost to the point of outright mimicry), or any other manner of tangent. You could also take Esplendor Geometrico as your point of reference for classic industrial, and say that the Rhythmic Noise scene is the natural successor to classic industrial. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't a clear cut sort of thing you could easily generalize.

As far as what some classic industrial bands sounded like:









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Old 14-01-2015, 05:49 AM   #3
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

and here's some stuff I've enjoyed recently that I consider at least in some way connected to earlier industrial in various ways, not necessarily the pioneering acts, but at least that early energy!

It's a complicated issue though, because being true to the roots of industrial would mean making noisy experimental music that pushes the boundaries of what constitutes music, so trying to stay "true" to the spirit of classic industrial would really mean making something completely different than it, because once you decide to work within a pre-existing musical tradition, you've already failed It's a catch-22!






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Old 14-01-2015, 10:29 AM   #4
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

I think industrial rock will always be the weird stepson of actual industrial music. The mainstream liked it for a little while, though, so that means something I guess.
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Old 14-01-2015, 03:42 PM   #5
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

I don't think NIN and Manson are those recent artists. Especially NIN whose started in late 80s.
Never was a big fan of industrial but I was really into Front Line Assembly once.
Industrial rock and metal are such nice twists: FLA (they have some metal albums), Fear Factory, Godflesh, Prong, KMFDM, Filter, Mnemic, Pitchshifter, Static-X and Celldweller were and still are the jams.
Nah, no Ministry... Never liked them.

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Old 14-01-2015, 04:42 PM   #6
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinoid View Post
I don't know if I would consider them:

a) industrial
-or -
b) "more recent"

If that is what you consider the newer industrial, you need to listen to more music, the bands you have listed were both formed in the late 80's, they were big when I was your age, and I'm in my mid-30's now, does that actually constitute the "new" industrial? That would be like calling Nirvana the new Rock music.

I've never really cared for the industrial rock stuff, but it's become pretty well ingrained, so I suppose to that extent, NIN at least can be thrown into the big umbrella "industrial", MM always seemed more like shock rock/metal. Antichrist Superstar definitely had a fair bit of industrial influence though.

The newer industrial aside from all that ebm/edm crossover stuff, seems to be largely returning back to its roots, everybody's pulling out the old samplers, synths, and analog mixing desks. I for one welcome our musically regressive overlords! It actually seems like a lot of stuff more in line with classic industrial is springing forth from all corners of the music world the last couple years, tons of related stuff too, like industrial techno, noise artists moving into more beat oriented stuff, which kinda sounds like a more lo-fi take on rhythmic noise, lots of really heavy, menacing ambient stuff, Anyway, I think I'm just thinking out loud at this point, but to reiterate, MM and NIN really aren't what I'd call "newer" industrial.



Do you mean "what does classic true to the roots industrial music from the current era sound like? or what did classic industrial music sound like? It's hard to say really because it started out really experimental and noisy, but it's kinda been tagged onto so many different things over its history it could mean a lot of things, I mean, Cabaret Voltaire, Monte Cazzaza and Throbbing Gristle don't really sound much alike, but they're all considered early industrial. I don't know that you can easily say because it means different things to different people. I mean, for me I think a lot of stuff in the noise scene is true to that term since it comes out of the same general anti-music experimentalism, confrontational spirit, etc... but some people would think it was all the electro-industrial stuff that sounds more like Skinny Puppy, and that might also be true since they were heavily influenced by Cabaret Voltaire (As was NIN, almost to the point of outright mimicry), or any other manner of tangent. You could also take Esplendor Geometrico as your point of reference for classic industrial, and say that the Rhythmic Noise scene is the natural successor to classic industrial. I guess what I'm saying is it isn't a clear cut sort of thing you could easily generalize.

As far as what some classic industrial bands sounded like:








Thanks for the reply. I really meant well known artists like NIN and MM. I got my words crossed. Thanks for your input. I'm trying to really grasp the history of Industrial and stuff like that and I've watched documentaries and videos. Do you have any recommendations for expanding my knowledge about the Industrial scene?

I agree with that. The industrial scene is very experimental when it started so it would make sense for the sound to be widely different and not set to a certain guideline. The reason I'm asking is because I would like to try and make classic industrial that resembles the sound of when it was in its beginnings. But there isn't much of a template to go by because like you said the sound is so widely varied. If you have any tips let me know. I'm going out on a limb with this idea I know but i really would like to try it and put my own twist on it
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Old 14-01-2015, 07:39 PM   #7
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

I think if you were to go that way, you'd want to look at what they were using back then, which was whatever cheap gear they could get their hands on, mostly tape machines, cheap synths and samplers, and found percussion. If you were looking to create that sort of sound, you're more than ready, you'd just need to remember to impose your own limitations. Maybe use free basic synths, like the TAL bassline and U-NO-60 from here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

...or synth1:
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or Olga (which technically isn't free, but only has a nag screen, no demo crippling)
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...or basically any sort of feature-limited softsynth you can find....

and ruin it with distortion

or slap a sample rate reducer and bitcrusher after a sampler, and throw weird sounds into it, keep them short, because you have limited sample memory
Use a mix of old drum machine sounds and samples of stuff in junk yards/train yards/your kitchen being hit with stuff, thrown down stairs, etc...

Make a feedback loop on a send track: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

and MAKE SURE YOU PUT A BRICKWALLED LIMITER ON THAT TRACK!!! hell, put it on right at the beginning, before you've even enabled the send, feedback can quickly get out of control and ruin your speakers/ears if you don't do this.
A lot of the sounds you'll hear on tutorials in regard to this are more soft, dubby atmospheres, but if you put an overdrive, frequency shifter, etc... in the chain, you can quickly make a roaring wall of feedback noise a la early power electronics acts. From there you could even pick out bits and resample them, use them as oscillators and build up diy synths in ableton with them, all sorts of possibilities.

That's all I've got for now, I'm sure there will be other people with other ideas oh how to get that sort of vibe, or telling you to find your own sound, but yeah, as far as I'm concerned, I think probably trying to keep things simple, lo-fi, and noisy is your best bet.

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Old 14-01-2015, 08:37 PM   #8
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Slogun remains one of my favourite industrial songs ever.

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Old 14-01-2015, 08:46 PM   #9
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

People think Manson is Industrial because Brian is the most talented rip-off artist in the history of the music industry. That said, I still fucking love their music.

Here's some industrial music:

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Old 14-01-2015, 08:57 PM   #10
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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People think Manson is Industrial because Brian is the most talented rip-off artist in the history of the music industry.
I can provide ample evidence to suggest NIN holds greater claim to that distinction, I'll keep things simple and start with this


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and here is a huge umbrella, representing the term industrial as it was just used by you


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Old 14-01-2015, 09:06 PM   #11
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Here is a short sentence.

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Old 14-01-2015, 11:44 PM   #12
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

@peguinoid

Thanks for the reply, these are some handy tips. Dude feedback is death, i love the harsh sound of it but not when its blaring and eroding my ears

I do want to discover my own sound but i believe that putting my twist and other inspirations into the roots of industrial actually IS my sound, hope that makes sense.

Basically what i believe in (and I'm just talking here about my thoughts lol) is that industrial is more of an influence now, that it really isn't a scene anymore. Im getting the idea that many recent bands and artists are incorporating the industrial they hear just as inspiration. I don't want to pull in industrial influence, i want to actually MAKE industrial music and make this industrial music as close to what its pioneers intended it to be. But i want to learn more about what the pioneers actually intended for their new style to be. And its also hard to do this because like you said above, industrial is very experimental and is so different that there isn't a certain set guideline and template to make this as close to what they wanted. If you have any advice about this and opinions id love to hear. This is totally my opinion here and just what i want to do and believe in.

Also if you have any cool articles that might help, that would be sick

thanks again

btw, would you consider How To Destroy Angels industrial, maybe close to its roots? I've been listening to the group ever since they started i love them
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Old 14-01-2015, 11:49 PM   #13
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Also guys, another thing I'm seeing that is somewhat confusing to me is that some artists who claim to be Industrial so so much like synth pop from the 80s. This is one thing that confuses me, i mean i know there is a huge umbrella as claimed above for industrial music, but do you think there is any way i can take that umbrella and shrink it into one defined sound so it would be a bit easier for me to make?

hope this makes sense
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Old 15-01-2015, 12:30 AM   #14
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

OK.

You've worked out by now that everyone has a different definition of 'industrial'. It means many different types of music and everyone will come in with their own version saying that is what it is. What is it to YOU? I'm not sure I understand why you are looking for a template to copy from a certain point in time and you don't even know when/what that is?

Also, synths and industrial = hell yes. You immediately need to be made aware of Skinny Puppy:



Also: MM and NIN just want to be David Bowie. Trent has even said so in interviews.

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Old 15-01-2015, 12:37 AM   #15
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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OK.

You've worked out by now that everyone has a different definition of 'industrial'. It means many different types of music and everyone will come in with their own version saying that is what it is. What is it to YOU? I'm not sure I understand why you are looking for a template to copy from a certain point in time and you don't even know when/what that is?

Also, synths and industrial = hell yes. You immediately need to be made aware of Skinny Puppy:



Also: MM and NIN just want to be David Bowie. Trent has even said so in interviews.
Yeah this is very true. Im still new and getting into the whole scene and don't know much about it, thats why I'm trying to figure out when and what that is by asking questions like this one lol

oh yeah i have heard about skinny puppy. their stuff is intense, but I'm still new so ill have to dig into them more
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Old 15-01-2015, 01:02 AM   #16
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

I guess listen to alot for a while, do some research and then figure out what your favourite bits are from there.

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Old 15-01-2015, 01:22 AM   #17
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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btw, would you consider How To Destroy Angels industrial, maybe close to its roots?
I absolutely would :problemofficer:



as pertains to the band HTDA, no, not so much!
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Old 15-01-2015, 01:22 AM   #18
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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I guess listen to alot for a while, do some research and then figure out what your favourite bits are from there.
Yeah thats what I'm doing now, but see like i said above I'm trying to find industrial bands. But sometimes i have a hard time even figuring out what is considered industrial and what isn't. so I'm taking to forums like this to expand my library.

sorry if this sounds stupid lol like i said, still new to this
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Old 15-01-2015, 01:28 AM   #19
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

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I absolutely would :problemofficer:



as pertains to the band HTDA, no, not so much!
hahaha nice nice. thanks yeah.
hey whats your opinion on what i stated above, how synhpop and some industrial seems to be similar? this seems to throw my brain for a loop, but hey i guess its alright lol
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Old 15-01-2015, 01:36 AM   #20
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Re: Opinions on the "New" Industrial

Holy fuck I didn't know about Statiqbloom.

Not very original but it's damn good nonetheless.

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