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Old 18-07-2012, 07:21 AM   #1
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Keyboard Latency

Alright, I'm fucking pissed off with how much latency my midi controller has. I have some questions about the source and a solution, however.

I know that changing my sample rate can affect my latency. Also, my buffer size.

Even with my sample rate at 48000 and my buffer at 256, there is always some small bit of latency. I would quantize my notes, but Reason doesn't seem to do the best job of it, and all my played stuff is like 1/64 or less off.

I'm guessing I can tweak my computer or program, OR I may just have (looks down) a shidi midi. Controller, that is. I have an Alesis Q49. Plastic keys, which I feel may have something to do with it.

I'm just sick of having to go over my shit TIME AND TIME again to make the note values correct.

Anyone?

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Old 18-07-2012, 07:35 AM   #2
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Buffer size has plenty to with with your input latency, so make sure that is pretty low. In logic, I can set mine to 64 (which sounds horrible), but I usually set mine to 128 when I record, and bring it back up when I am mixing.

Are you connected via USB or 5-pin? And are you running any other software/plugins besides what you are using to record with at the moment?

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Old 18-07-2012, 08:15 AM   #3
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Re: Keyboard Latency

1) Since you didn't say what audio interface you used, get a dedicated audio interface.

2) Try ASIO4ALL if you have (and stick to using) a MB soundcard.

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Old 18-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #4
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Sorry, I forgot to mention that.

I have an mbox. Obviously nothing special, but that should be good enough, yes?

Yikes, that is low. Yeah, I'll give it a shot. I didn't even think of bringing it back up for recording/mixing purposes. Thanks for the tip, I've yet to try it, but I'm sure that'll do.

Edit: ASIO4ALL is currently in use. Unless, of course, I'm using it incorrectly. And I am connected USB, which I understand also adds to the amount of latency experienced. My computer has no other applications running. It does have, as all computers have, a bunch of different processes eating away at it.. I stumbled across this page showing you all of these processes that were really trivial, and it showed me also how to delete them through notepad. I'm so pissed I didn't bookmark it, perhaps it's time to hunt for that site as well. A lot of those useless things don't do much to your PC. But combined, I understand they're responsible for a lot.

EVELON, I just saw the clip in your signature. Once I know my shit a little better, I really want to try stuff like that. The springs sound way too sick. Mad props for that, did you figure that out yourself? Unrelated to the OP, but hopefully you don't mind me asking.

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Old 18-07-2012, 08:58 AM   #5
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Re: Keyboard Latency

I don't know how USB midi latency is suppose to work, with my Novation 49 I seem to have no latency I can tell. I never tried any other buffer settings.

I know sometimes PCs have some fast and some slower USB ports. Faster on the back maybe. Not sure where I read that.

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Old 18-07-2012, 09:04 AM   #6
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Re: Keyboard Latency

I'm using my middle of the road laptop. HP Pavillion dm4, straight out of the box, no upgrades or anything. But I'll see if there's a faster/slower port. Thank you.
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Old 18-07-2012, 09:18 AM   #7
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Re: Keyboard Latency

you realize the bigger the bffer number the more latency right? when i record from any of my keyboards i change my audio interfaces latency to 48 samples i think it is. then when mixing and not using a keyboard i put it back to 512 samples. why? cos there's fuck all latency at 48 samples but a fair bit at 512, yet 512 eases up on the dropouts and cpu usage it seems.

in fairness the native novation driver allow me to get it that low - ASIO4ALL isn't half as good as it's made out to be, i can't get it that low with that at all. more like 96 maybe 128 at best. generally the audio interfaces' manufacturer driver is always the best to go for

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Old 18-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #8
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Re: Keyboard Latency

In my audio preferences, I can cut it down to around 50, actually.

This is something I haven't even considered. But damn, I'm glad I'm here. No matter how stupid my questions are, I always seem to get at least two genius answers. Thank you all.
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Old 18-07-2012, 06:52 PM   #9
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Additionally.. Does anyone think this is also because I have a somewhat lower-end midi controller?
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Old 18-07-2012, 06:55 PM   #10
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Re: Keyboard Latency

No.

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Old 19-07-2012, 12:38 AM   #11
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Re: Keyboard Latency

I put mine down to 16 or 32 sometimes, also depending on which DAW I'm in, and I'm using ASIO drivers. Works fine for me. If I'm just doing mixing and editing I give it a generous buffer like 256 at least or 512, even 1024. I don't have much issues with latency, of course I don't use keyboard controllers a lot.

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Old 19-07-2012, 06:40 AM   #12
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Ok, this used to bug me for a while - but here is what I learned over 6 years and hopefulyl it can help you :


1. Pay for a proper copy of your DAW. Cracked copies often have latency/bugs which will pop up randomly.

2. Get the latest version drivers for your audio card. (ASIO native preferred)

3. If your running a PC, follow a good guide on tweaking the OS for audio (changing it to background application preferred mode etc) I highly advise not turning off too many services. This doesnt really help all that much and can cause issues..

4. Use a solid state harddisk as your primary drive (use normal drive for storage of samples/large VST

5. Your soundcard will make all the difference. I had huge issues until I got my RME Fireface 800. If your using Firewire for the interface then make sure you get a Texas Instruments Firewire controller chipset. This cannot be understated. People say this is a myth, but I will dispell those lies right here and now. Do not use VIA or anything else. Try to steer clear of USB interfaces, if you can.

6. Have quality components in your studio computer. Dont get cheap, the bitterness of something cheep way outlasts the sweetness of something quality. That means research and find a good motherboard. Shell out for a decent CPU, and most of all get lots of ram with really good timings, somthing like CORSAIR.

7. Best to use actual midi. They seem to be more reliable than Midi/USB convertors or USB midi keyboards.

8. Go x64 Bit. This is a no brainer.


Extra Notes :


Buffer Sizes - This is somthing you should research and understand well. It will change based on what your doing, and what soundcard is able to do. My advice is if 24 Bit is lagging then switch to 16bit 48k

Latency can also be caused by shitty VST. Go for Hardware where you can afford it.

Good Luck
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Old 19-07-2012, 07:22 AM   #13
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
Ok, this used to bug me for a while - but here is what I learned over 6 years and hopefulyl it can help you :


1. Pay for a proper copy of your DAW. Cracked copies often have latency/bugs which will pop up randomly.
He didn't say anything about pirating software
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
2. Get the latest version drivers for your audio card. (ASIO native preferred)

3. If your running a PC, follow a good guide on tweaking the OS for audio (changing it to background application preferred mode etc) I highly advise not turning off too many services. This doesnt really help all that much and can cause issues..

4. Use a solid state harddisk as your primary drive (use normal drive for storage of samples/large VST
I wouldn't recommend this as the price of SSD's are high, and software runs fine on regular HDDs. It might speed it up a bit, but I wouldn't be rushing out to replace a drive I've already been using and have my OS installed on
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
5. Your soundcard will make all the difference. I had huge issues until I got my RME Fireface 800. If your using Firewire for the interface then make sure you get a Texas Instruments Firewire controller chipset. This cannot be understated. People say this is a myth, but I will dispell those lies right here and now. Do not use VIA or anything else. Try to steer clear of USB interfaces, if you can.
I've read in some places that USB 2.0 is as fast as Firewire, and USB 3.0 is even faster. I do notice many multichannel interfaces use firewire rather than USB, but USB works just fine, there's no reason to avoid it unless you're doing multitracking. MIDI uses a very very small amount of data. USB, let alone firewire, has more than enough room for MIDI messages to travel quickly. I can't say anything about the drivers for firewire as I don't use firewire much.
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Originally Posted by jansen View Post
6. Have quality components in your studio computer. Dont get cheap, the bitterness of something cheep way outlasts the sweetness of something quality. That means research and find a good motherboard. Shell out for a decent CPU, and most of all get lots of ram with really good timings, somthing like CORSAIR.
I've never had issues running software on factory shipped computers. If you're into computers, sure there's things you can do that improve your computer, but if you don't know much about computers you're not going to really suffer using a Dell straight from the store.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
7. Best to use actual midi. They seem to be more reliable than Midi/USB convertors or USB midi keyboards.
MIDI is MIDI wherever it's being sent through. It's the data; the style of plug doesn't matter. USB works fine, and it's more convenient as you no longer need a midi interface (extra $)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
8. Go x64 Bit. This is a no brainer.
I ran my 32 bit XP computer without issues since I got it in 2005 until I switched to a new desktop in 2011. It still runs fine today, I use it occasionally still for audio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post

Extra Notes :


Buffer Sizes - This is somthing you should research and understand well. It will change based on what your doing, and what soundcard is able to do. My advice is if 24 Bit is lagging then switch to 16bit 48k
or... increase the buffer as sample rate isn't related to the buffer and would require a complete overhaul of the entire project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post

Latency can also be caused by shitty VST. Go for Hardware where you can afford it.
True, hardware will not bring up latency issues, unless you're sequencing it with midi!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jansen View Post
Good Luck
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Old 20-07-2012, 12:06 AM   #14
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Re: Keyboard Latency

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Originally Posted by Fear View Post
Additionally.. Does anyone think this is also because I have a somewhat lower-end midi controller?
More likely a low-end computer honestly and a low-end soundcard. I'm running an i7 with a PCI RME card. Accourding to Gearslutz, its one of the lowest interfaces out there. You really need the computing power to run multiple track with zero-latency.
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Old 20-07-2012, 10:57 AM   #15
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Re: Keyboard Latency

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Originally Posted by zrop View Post
More likely a low-end computer honestly and a low-end soundcard. I'm running an i7 with a PCI RME card. Accourding to Gearslutz, its one of the lowest interfaces out there. You really need the computing power to run multiple track with zero-latency.
he's doing midi not mulitracking

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Old 21-07-2012, 12:06 AM   #16
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Re: Keyboard Latency

I got it figured out, thanks for all of your help, guys.

Just picked up a pair of AT M50s. Time to get to work tonight.

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Old 21-07-2012, 12:17 AM   #17
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Re: Keyboard Latency

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I got it figured out, thanks for all of your help, guys.

Just picked up a pair of AT M50s. Time to get to work tonight.
Carefully when you're working with those. They have too much highs -- for my taste atleast.
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Old 21-07-2012, 12:18 AM   #18
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Re: Keyboard Latency

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EVELON, I just saw the clip in your signature. Once I know my shit a little better, I really want to try stuff like that. The springs sound way too sick. Mad props for that, did you figure that out yourself? Unrelated to the OP, but hopefully you don't mind me asking.
Sorry. I noticed your post just now.

Thanks! I pretty much figured out early on that if I bumped my guitar amp hard (with a spring reverb in it), it would sound "piaaaooowowowonngggg". So yeah, I pretty much took it to the next level with my own imagination. Cheap and fun way to fuck things up.

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Old 21-07-2012, 02:53 AM   #19
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Sick. I'm going to figure out how I could go about doing that, I'll do some interweb scourin'. If you think there's a certain technique/way of going about this you think I should be aware of, please PM me details! Or make a thread. I'm sure a lot of people would love trying that out.

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Old 21-07-2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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Re: Keyboard Latency

Me too waiting for a good reply of Fear's question.

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