Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks
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Old 20-02-2018, 05:20 PM   #1
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Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I've realised that quite often the new project i'm working on, feels like something new and interesting and great and melodic and well arranged and all that stuff, but when others listen, they don't share the same opinion at all.

Also, when after a while I'm listening to the tracks I've created before, don't sound so special any more. So my mind makes this trick where it says that every new project is going to be the best (or one of the best) so far, yet after a while, when its done, it don't feel like this at all...

What is this? How can I be the objective listener and "see" the problematic points early enough to know whether all this is even worth working on.. ?

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Old 20-02-2018, 06:06 PM   #2
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Originally Posted by pkreegi View Post
I've realised that quite often the new project i'm working on, feels like something new and interesting and great and melodic and well arranged and all that stuff, but when others listen, they don't share the same opinion at all.

Also, when after a while I'm listening to the tracks I've created before, don't sound so special any more. So my mind makes this trick where it says that every new project is going to be the best (or one of the best) so far, yet after a while, when its done, it don't feel like this at all...

What is this? How can I be the objective listener and "see" the problematic points early enough to know whether all this is even worth working on.. ?
this is a interesting topic, it has been already discussed a little bit here: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
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Old 20-02-2018, 06:36 PM   #3
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I think what you describe is similar to falling in love. You fall in love with your new track, and it fills you with energy and optimism.

It's like meeting a girl and falling in love with her: In the beginning, everything she does is amazing - even her farts smell like paradise. But after a while of this, you begin to realise that things have changed. The way she never cleans her teeth is beginning to annoy you, and you find yourself looking at other girls instead..

One way to get a broader perspective on you own music is to constantly listen to other people's music (and not just music in the same style as your own). If you're already in love with someone else's music, your own music will seem less charming - and you'll be able notice the fart-smell right away.

People in open/polyamorous relationships have a name for this kind of loss of objectivity and rise in energy:

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Old 20-02-2018, 06:48 PM   #4
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

^hahahaha, I was coming here to say it was NRE....

But basically, what has been said. Put a song away for a long time. Don’t leave it “on loop” while working on it. I’ve heard plenty of musicians of all genres talk about how they can’t stand the songs they are well known for.

Like Ray Wylie Hubbard is oft want to say at his concerts before he plays Up Against the Wall Redneck Mother “The key to writiing a hit tune is writing something you can play for 40 years without getting sick of it”.

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Old 20-02-2018, 07:14 PM   #5
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Originally Posted by Iyashi Sound View Post
It's like meeting a girl and falling in love with her: In the beginning, everything she does is amazing - even her farts smell like paradise. But after a while of this, you begin to realise that things have changed. The way she never cleans her teeth is beginning to annoy you, and you find yourself looking at other girls instead..
Man why does this part smell like its coming from your own experience

I looked into the thread and that got posted here, and yes, they say that "awesome" turns into "utter bullshit" quite fast, but in my case I don't get the "bullshit" phase,it only becomes mediocre.

anyway, Relic, what psychological warfare do I have to start in my head to put a track away that I like working on? There's no such thing as "damn I love her so much, let me see where the put-her-suddenly-on-a-wait threshold lies".... Actually now that I come to think of it, girls do that quite often lol. They just dump your sorry ass when everything seems so perfect and still in the fall-in-love-phase.

Damn when taking parallels between relationships and music, this shit gets complicated as fuck ... Maybe I should start doing gay music, because gay relationships don't seem too complicated... Gays are happy.


By the way: NRE in its wikipeda article is so underdeveloped. This NRE is biological attraction. Its not love, its just lust. This is why Buddha said "The best companion for you is the one towards whom you don't feel crazy lust or attraction". Love is a state of mind, its spiritual, whereas lust is just getting your chemistry fucked up on your body, which casts a shadow upon the real love. If the shadow dissipates, mind becomes much clearer, which is when we start smelling the farts. So what Buddha in other words said: if you can see the past the crazy lust, you can see if real love exists or not..

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Old 20-02-2018, 09:17 PM   #6
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Try not to listen to your own music without working on it too much.
Try remixing your old tracks that you feel ambivalent about, take the best parts of them and make something new. It's really refreshing to do honestly. I've started remixing tracks I made 5 years ago and have made far better stuff out of them in my own opinion.

Also people with fading NRE should remix their relationship a lil if ya know what I mean
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Old 20-02-2018, 09:38 PM   #7
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Maybe he just got carried away, I don't know..that's how it seemed to me.
Like when you suddenly shout at someone calling him 'stupid motherfucker!' The difference is in the intention. I mean it's clearly not about his mother then...
I didn't want to defend him and I really think I shouldn't have stepped in.
Forget it.

Some things better not touch, some words better not say.

I deleted my post. Really don't wanna get into this. The quote is there. Guess I was wrong. Sorry. Just forget it

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Old 20-02-2018, 09:52 PM   #8
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I asked a difficult question, I know, but this thread is consisting of like 2 answers to the question, 4 relationship problems and 2 million insult points. I just love the people here Color is important in every aspect of life
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Old 20-02-2018, 10:47 PM   #9
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

When I was in school, I think it was in the 10th grade and we were getting grades and when it was my turn, I thought it wasn't fair what I got. I felt I deserved a better grade, but since everyone else seemed to agree with the teacher I asked the girl, who was sitting next to me if one would always value his/her own work higher than the work of others. She just said 'Yeah! Of course!' and I was left speechless...
Actually I've thought about what she said so many times since then..
It seems like a plausible concept in terms of evolution.
I guess everyone in here still remembers his/her first produced tracks and how people reacted to it?
Or your reaction to the first tracks of your buddies and how excited they were when they pressed the play button?
I think it's actually really difficult to listen to your own music in a way similar like someone else would perceive it - if possible at all...
Can someone explain the difference between the hearing sense and visual sense in terms of how both are processed in the brain?
Hearing does work pretty much directly compared to signals perceived through the eyes which are filtered and interpreted - is that correct?
We can play with images, we've seen in many ways - but we can't do similar things to music we've heard.
Maybe music does directly trigger emotions and memories and that's the reason for the differences in perceiving music?

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Old 20-02-2018, 11:15 PM   #10
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

It's a Catch-22: you can't make music that means anything to you without some kind of passion for it, but that same passion can blind you to its problems.

I think, for me, I love it so much I want to make it the best I can, and that means looking for potential problems and analyzing the hell out of a piece. Sometimes I work so hard at it that I stop liking it for awhile. But I do try to balance getting caught up in the moment with serious critique. I guess my advice is to love the idea, love putting in the work, but still make sure you find things not to love about it. I think that's the basis for the 'never finished, only abandoned' thing - you never actually work out all the flaws with a piece of art.

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Old 20-02-2018, 11:43 PM   #11
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Originally Posted by Schnork View Post
Maybe music does directly trigger emotions and memories and that's the reason for the differences in perceiving music?
True. Proven. When music’s impact on workout was researched, it became evident that cyclists who were pedalling in rhythm with the music, required 7% less oxygen.

When grocery stores play french music on the background, people buy more french wine.

Clive Wearing, who was a vreat composer and pianist, had a brain infection which caused him loose all of his long term memory and only have the short-term memory reduced to 30 seconds. He tried to keep a diary to organize his life, but ended up always writing the same thing - i am aware. Every couple of blinks he was openex to a completely new world. Clive described his life like being dead.

However, he remembered his wife. And even though he kept calling her and asking to meet, he always got very clingy and emotional when he met her. When she left, Clive called her and said he had not see her in ages. The other thing that affected Clive was music. He played the piano, leadned new songs and created new ones. Playing music was like a childs play to a man who was psychologically dead. While playing music his mind was completely awake, being able to function properly, he could speak and discuss music for more than 30 seconds. As soon as he stopped playing, he skid back into the valley of the shadows.

What all this shows is, that how we percieve life is all very subjective. The colors and emotions that we operate on daily basis is different to most of us, creating different vibrations in our brains. To put the vibrations into a evaluative form, we use music as one method. This is also where creativeness comes in. Jordan Peterson said that creativeness is not how much ideas you can think of - its about how many NEW ideas you can think of , that reach far from the original subject. Far enough to call them “out of the box” thinking.

So maybe next time when someonr says “wow you really are thinking out of the box”, give yourself a pat on the shoulder and know that there is some huge leapings in your creative flow after all )

Man writing from a phone with broken screen is such a pain. But i wNted to share so bad
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Old 20-02-2018, 11:51 PM   #12
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

They say "familiarity breeds contempt"..and that's all it is..your track hasn't changed or gotten worse since you made it..you've just become used to hearing it and now it seems dull and "wrong". But others, hearing it for the first time, will think it's cool, just like you did..as it more than likely is..

The thing to understand is this phase isn't a bad thing..it basically means you are now free of the "newness" of what you initially produced and are ready to dust it off and improve it if you feel it really needs it..or if there are any glaring mistakes or edits you feel would make it shine even more.

Remember though, once you have edited it /remixed it, the same thing is going to happen again later, if you listen to the new edit enough times.

Personally, I feel a track is what it is by the 3rd edit..if you still think there's something wrong with it..then it's your production skills that are lacking and not the work in question. You have to be able to call it a day..and we each have a point at which we do that..nobody can tell you when that is..it's something you'll come to know yourself over time, the more you produce stuff.

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Old 21-02-2018, 11:12 AM   #13
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Originally Posted by pkreegi View Post
True. Proven. When music’s impact on workout was researched, it became evident that cyclists who were pedalling in rhythm with the music, required 7% less oxygen.

When grocery stores play french music on the background, people buy more french wine.
Ah, yes thank you! That's what I meant.
I think the difference in perception between hearing and visiual sense becomes clear when trying to discuss either stuff we've seen or music we've heard. It's much easier to relate to visionary stuff, sure people might have fundamentally different opinions, yet still they could try to relate to it.
With music, outside of music theory it's not even clear what certain words might mean to someone else when he/she refers to music and then comes the 'brain part' into play...

I guess what you can do is learn the basic stuff it needs to make music and then become really good at it - learn how to play your instruments, master your daw and learn how to mix properly. Basically elimating any obstacles a listener might encounter that aren't part of the musical idea, of the music itself.
Guess you knew that already^^

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Old 21-02-2018, 01:49 PM   #14
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Damn when taking parallels between relationships and music, this shit gets complicated as fuck ... Maybe I should start doing gay music, because gay relationships don't seem too complicated... Gays are happy.
Based on the level of drama in the lives of my gay friends, I'm not sure I'd agree that gay relationships are necessarily less complicated than straight ones. Well, not for the gay guys anyway. The few lesbians I've known have actually all been pretty laid back.

Your comment about the Buddha was interesting. If applied to choosing which artistic style of expression you work with, it would mean avoiding styles you're "crazy" about - in order to keep a clear head. Like maybe avoiding stuff like glitzy pop music, shallow love songs or hysterical party music, - and instead allowing more complex mind states to guide your choices. I think a lot of the people here are doing this already, but putting it into words doesn't hurt. Thanks
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Old 22-02-2018, 04:49 AM   #15
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

My cycle goes from, "hey, my tracks are bassy! why aren't most tracks as bassy as this? it's great!" to playing it in the car and going, "oh, right... because it's muddy as fuck and I want to kill myself".

I guess being biased about your own work is a double-edged sword. You'll eventually realize you suck, just much later than other people

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Old 22-02-2018, 08:46 AM   #16
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

hmm.. This is such a loaded question, hence the loaded answers.

I guess if you're feeling good about your tracks all the way up until after you finish them, consider yourself lucky. Distaste for what I'm working on seems to creep in at any point for me.

It's such a complicated thing, how we feel about our own music. Many factors.. is it morning, night, are you hungry, have you gotten laid lately, did you sleep well, did your friend like the last track you showed him, do you have friends, how much money is in your bank account, how old are you etc. etc. I think that over time we develop objectivity and it doesn't matter quite as much how we feel. We know what we think constitutes good or bad.

regardless, there is a tendency to be excited at the beginning. My strategy is use that energy to create as much shit as quickly as possible. just keep going and going. When you start becoming disenchanted. that's when you focus on the mundane stuff like "eh maybe i actually shouldn't have the bass come in there.." and mixing and what not. But try to get the raw musical ideas out during that initial burst of excitement. It doesn't always work out like that, but it's a good thing to shoot for.

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Old 22-02-2018, 09:35 AM   #17
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

You're talking about being an artist and needing to develop a real sense of objective listening and critical analysis of your art.
This is a good thing.
Everyone should recognise that they're really not well practised enough at the start of their career and that they'll need to work hard to get somewhere that's worth getting to.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, quite the opposite, not enough people who come here think like that initially, they're too busy thinking about being a popstar.

There's a similar phenomenon with writers, whereby when they read back their own writing, they don't actually read exactly what is on the page. Instead they embellish it a little here and there, they miss their own typos and they insert small extra words which they've missed out from the written work. Sounds like a similar thing to me.




As regards what was said here.
I've said it a lot before but if you disagree with someone or think that what they've written is abhorrent or whatever, please take a second to consider if interacting with them will benefit or hinder the thread.
Please don't derail random threads into arguments about what you consider to be anti-semitism.
(There's a beautiful parallel between the topic of this thread and the conviction of people's beliefs in arguing with Thom here, see if you can spot it.)
Do you really think that you're going to be so convincing as to change someone's opinion on things like that, even if your initial judgement was correct?
Just gloss over it, be a big boy/girl/whatever, take a big deep breath, hit the report button, fill out the report and continue as if you hadn't seen it. Don't dwell on it, don't let it ruin your day, don't let it derail you.
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Old 22-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #18
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Haha god damn it, seems like being a creative person is a hell in itself You want to make music, and you die if you don't. However, with creativity comes a lot of emotions, which either block you from seeing the "real" spirit of the track, or make you feel like you're the greatest turd ever to touch this DAW.

Anyway there has been some REALLY good suggestions in this thread already. To take it all into one sentence: If you want to make music, make music. If you feel a cloud coming over your head, take a set back and rest your ears. Eventually the emotions will go and rationality kicks in ,this is where you can be an objective listener.

And most importantly - don't try to be somebody you are not. Your music is your perception of the world. Your music is the window into your consciousness. Your music is telling the story of your thoughts. Trying to be "someone" is just going to kill it, then it will take the passion from your music.
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Old 22-02-2018, 12:13 PM   #19
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I'm not sure if we really develop the ability to judge our music less subjectively throughout the years or if we just become better at making music and thus the point of view is different.
I'm really not sure about that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnkvolcno View Post

regardless, there is a tendency to be excited at the beginning. My strategy is use that energy to create as much shit as quickly as possible. just keep going and going. When you start becoming disenchanted. that's when you focus on the mundane stuff like "eh maybe i actually shouldn't have the bass come in there.." and mixing and what not. But try to get the raw musical ideas out during that initial burst of excitement. It doesn't always work out like that, but it's a good thing to shoot for.
Good advice! I usually try to do that, use the energy and excitement as long as it's there and turn that into musical ideas.
When I already have an arrangement, I'll go through it step by step, usually outside with my mp3 player and pen + notebook, because that way I can't change it instantly - if the idea is still good when I'm home, it's usually a good decision.
Mixing comes when I'm content with the arrangement.

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Old 22-02-2018, 07:31 PM   #20
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkreegi View Post
Haha god damn it, seems like being a creative person is a hell in itself You want to make music, and you die if you don't. However, with creativity comes a lot of emotions, which either block you from seeing the "real" spirit of the track, or make you feel like you're the greatest turd ever to touch this DAW.

Anyway there has been some REALLY good suggestions in this thread already. To take it all into one sentence: If you want to make music, make music. If you feel a cloud coming over your head, take a set back and rest your ears. Eventually the emotions will go and rationality kicks in ,this is where you can be an objective listener.

And most importantly - don't try to be somebody you are not. Your music is your perception of the world. Your music is the window into your consciousness. Your music is telling the story of your thoughts. Trying to be "someone" is just going to kill it, then it will take the passion from your music.
In the words of old Yoda: "Do or do not..there is no try!"

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