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Old 09-06-2014, 08:36 PM   #21
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

It's projects that idmfers build up together, inside of the idmf community. If I'm part of another label and that label calls for submissions for a compilation and I would like idmfers to know about it, I wouldn't post it here because it's not a project that I built inside the community. It's some friend's project, from outside the forum, someone nobody here knows about. The final product wouldn't be tagged "idmf" and the artists that would sign in wouldn't be tagged "idmfers". The project could have existed without the idmf community.

I really don't know how to explain much more than that.

P.S. are you jaymsay

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Old 09-06-2014, 08:40 PM   #22
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug View Post
It's projects that idmfers build up together, inside of the idmf community. If I'm part of another label and that label calls for submissions for a compilation and I would like idmfers to know about it, I wouldn't post it here because it's not a project that I built inside the community. It's some friend's project, from outside the forum, someone nobody here knows about. The final product wouldn't be tagged "idmf" and the artists that would sign in wouldn't be tagged "idmfers". The project could have existed without the idmf community.

I really don't know how to explain much more than that.

P.S. are you jaymsay

not at all, as black and white as things need to be, they need a black and white definition too that's easy to understand without questions
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:50 PM   #23
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

I understand. It feels a bit like the kind of stuff you can identify easily but can't explain as easily.

the question that would help to cut clearly is "is it "made in idmf"?"
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:23 PM   #24
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

What if, then, the project was built by idmfers, it's primary participation base is idmfers, but it was not openly planned within the confines of idmf, nor does it bear the idmf name, and it has a home of its own outside of idmf where the idmfers go to find the material for participation in said project?

Where would something like that go, if not here, because scene chat doesn't really feel correct anymore.

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Old 09-06-2014, 09:45 PM   #25
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

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I think this area should be dedicated to all those project that involve more than a couple of forum members, so things like "Album Writing Month", sound design challenges, Game Making Month etc.
sound design challenges would blow my mind- i would Love to sit in on tutorials about sound design or foley work or video game sfx- like in stages- pt 1 would have beginners - pt2 would go through slightly more advanced functions, pt 3 for average everyday ppl in sound design, pt 4 for advanced members, pt 5 for experts, pt 6 for masters- something like that would be cool- articles, youtube videos etc

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Old 09-06-2014, 09:47 PM   #26
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

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What if, then, the project was built by idmfers, it's primary participation base is idmfers, but it was not openly planned within the confines of idmf, nor does it bear the idmf name, and it has a home of its own outside of idmf where the idmfers go to find the material for participation in said project?

Where would something like that go, if not here, because scene chat doesn't really feel correct anymore.
I don't want to decide this on my own, I didn't think I would be adressed like I was the one with all the answers ! please tell me what you have in mind. Do you say this in regards to the altered-echo project ?
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:50 PM   #27
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Just popped in my head, in addition to collab projects I think it would be really cool to have a mentoring project. Where from start to finish a mentor(s) could show step by step how to make a track and people involved could share their progress and then end up with a finished track at the end.
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Old 09-06-2014, 10:07 PM   #28
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

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Originally Posted by Lug View Post
I don't want to decide this on my own, I didn't think I would be adressed like I was the one with all the answers ! please tell me what you have in mind. Do you say this in regards to the altered-echo project ?
It was just a general question based upon several answers to the thread. I was going to put @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; but then decided not to because, while on the heels of your answer, I wasn't wanting to direct it at you directly.

Being as I have a vested interest in this topic, yes my thoughts were primarily related to the AEP. As for what I had in mind...

I agree that Hyperdub doesn't need promo in here. I'd say if something needs to change then maybe just break this up in sub forums...

Ideas (discuss ideas for community projects)
Collabs (you have to have something like this somewhere otherwise people take it to The Studio)
Community Remix Contests
Community Challenges (mawm, fawm, game month, sound design challenges ala white noise)
Community Releases (ala that IDMf EDM challenge)

I also like a post count requirement to open threads. Honestly iI'd say 50. That way you know the poster is apart of the community for sure.

That's just off the top of the old dome.

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Old 09-06-2014, 10:10 PM   #29
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

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I think it would be really cool to have a mentoring project.
meh I don't know about that. There's already lots of room for this kind of sharing and if people want to ask someone specific hints and tips, they can PM each other. I don't feel like an extra subforum dedicated to that is necessary.
What you're suggesting is a kind of "in the studio with" idmf series, right ?

anyway, this isn't the point discussed and I think you should post that in the "suggestions and feedback" subforum
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:13 AM   #30
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

no-one should feel under pressure for sharing their thoughts btw, it's just a discussion and there's nothing wrong in fully expressing how you feel things should be without fear of being called a twat.

Couple of interesting points raised so far. I think @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
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if you yourselves defined honestly what you feel your project is - an IDMf community project or an outside one. it might help you answer your own questions? i dunno.

unrealted to your points about your own project RFJ:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post

I agree that Hyperdub doesn't need promo in here. I'd say if something needs to change then maybe just break this up in sub forums...

Ideas (discuss ideas for community projects)
Collabs (you have to have something like this somewhere otherwise people take it to The Studio)
Community Remix Contests
Community Challenges (mawm, fawm, game month, sound design challenges ala white noise)
Community Releases (ala that IDMf EDM challenge)
how do you define who should and shouldn't have their stuff included? what's the cut off mark? it has to unfortunately be a straight line rather than a bendy one, as we're talking writing rules here. what is your definition of IDMf community "whatever"?




again, i get it's easy to write the categories, but harder to put a finger on an exact definition. that's what we need to try do together though
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:37 AM   #31
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

I actually feel like the community projects section has the most potential for development.

With regard to having a post count requirement, I'm all for this. But I think it should be much higher and maybe dependent on time. Eg: to start a community project thread a member needs, x,000 posts and 1 year on the forum, or with moderator approval for members who don't meet these requirements. I know that sounds extreme, but I can think of users with 500 posts that may not necessarily be a part of the community yet... I can think of a few

As for whether the project is being run within IDMf, I'm in favour of a mixture of both. Provided that the project is being run by an IDMf member and/or involving the work of an IDMf member, then it's cool with me.

As for what constitutes a project, well my thinking is along what's been said already, competitions, remix competitions, new labels or artistic ventures. All of it. The IDMf community should be getting behind these.

More to the point, if we can develop some good guidelines on how to present and manage community projects, there's nothing to stop us facilitating projects that would otherwise have remained random jibber jabber on the internet. For instance, relic and RFJ would have some good input on how competitions should be structured, eg: info requirements, handling submissions, etc.

Along with the guides, mods and members with experience running the types of projects being put forth in the community could provide some oversight for the people running the competition. A bit of advice and feedback before, during and after the project... That kind of thing.
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Old 10-06-2014, 04:34 PM   #32
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Thanks in advance for reading this...

I'll address the questions posed related to our project then say some other things about what we could do with this issue as a whole going forward because I realize everything isn't about me, me, me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benwaa View Post
Couple of interesting points raised so far. I think @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
@[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
if you yourselves defined honestly what you feel your project is - an IDMf community project or an outside one. it might help you answer your own questions? i dunno.
It's a bit of a grey area but if I'm being 100% honest I think the Altered Echo Project is, indeed, an outside project. It wasn't planned here, wasn't ever discussed here, and no input from the community was asked for when these discussions were being had and the plans were being made. I say it's a grey area because our intent was to bring it here, for this community to participate in, and were it not for the artists we found here, and also the artists from the IDMf community that have subsequently participated in our open calls for submissions, there would be no Altered Echo Project. Were IDMf to go away relic and I might as well unplug. We have received some outside eyes in the past and also as a result of what we are doing with Jazzyspoon but not enough to sustain us in the way we have been sustained by the IDMf collective base of member participants. But, be all that as it may, I must admit AEP is an outside project.


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Originally Posted by Benwaa View Post
how do you define who should and shouldn't have their stuff included?what's the cut off mark? it has to unfortunately be a straight line rather than a bendy one, as we're talking writing rules here. what is your definition of IDMf community "whatever"?
Man this is so hard to answer objectively. Damn near impossible. If I was to make a hard line definition of what a community project is it would be something more like what we are seeing with the writing months and white noise competitions / challenges / whatever they would be called. They are planned here, not over gmail between two people, openly discussed here, and input from anyone and everyone who will speak up is accepted. That's what I would say a true community project is. It's the difference in being planned with the community and being planned for the community that is the lynch pin in my definition.

Be that as it may bringing my own unavoidable wants and desires back into play, I really like what @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; had to say. I really liked all of it even the uber high requirements for being able to post something in here. Not because I don't want outsiders but because I too really like to see this section of the board thrive.

Do I benefit if it does? Yes I do. But in that, so does the community at large because what happens when any project of this nature is done properly, by people who are committed, it presents opportunities for people to get their music out there who would have otherwise had no opportunity. These community projects, again, if done well present a fantastic opportunity for the proliferation of independently produced electronic music to be heard even if only by a few.

What I think needs to happen and would propose would be this...

Open the community projects section to anyone. Make some sort of high membership requirement to get in or make it be on an approval basis. ie you have a community project, make a plan and present it to someone ie a moderator, admin, or elected team of reps , for approval. Shit, if you really want to be above board, you could even have an open section within the community center where folks could present their projects to the community at large for a vote. All that might sound stringent but two things...

First the main problem with community projects is they never really go off. Sometimes they do, but mostly, as @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; said they're really a bunch of chatter if not planned properly with people who are committed to lead. So, if stringent requirements are set forth for officially opening your project within the community here chances are it might go off better than a simple idea banged out in a three line OP of some thread.

The second, final, and culmination of all my thoughts on the matter, and what we could do with the community center is this...

I've noticed that when community projects have a name behind them the level of participation increases ten fold. Case in point the Jazzyspoon competition @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; and I are running right now. The only reason I can think of why, besides the awesome source material, is because being as we are partnered up with a "real label" this time round' the incentive for participation is increased and thus the participation is increased as a result.

I think we should start bringing some of these community projects that have been proven to work into "real releases" on the IDMf Netlabel.

Do I stand to gain for that? Yes I do. But, as stated above, when my project gains so does the community. But it's not just me and the community that stand to gain for this, the cool thing is, so would the IDMf Netabel.

In running the Altered Echo Project, along with @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
;, I've realized that keeping up with a release per month schedule is a very tall order. I'm sure you @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
;, have felt pressure at times in this same vein too. Imagine how much easier things would be and how much more music would get out if, once a project has proven it can be run well, you bring said project in for an official release in partnership with the IDMf Netlabel with all it's full force and backing.

Not to get into the nitty gritty of how this would work but I'll just address quality because I know that is one of the primary concerns of Netlabel Management. If a community project winds up officially sanctioned by the Netlabel, for a release or series of releases, I know without a doubt participation will increase and quality will as well. Were the Community Project White Noise to have been under the umbrella of the Netlabel I know that I, for one, would have put a considerable amount of time and effort into what I put up as opposed to approaching it as something just for fun.

This merging of the Netlabel and the community projects pertains to ALL community projects that have been found there. However, the only one that I run is mine so I can only speak to how that could work. Releases on the Netlabel get offered a remix competition shortly after their release and the artist is passed off to @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; and I. We take it from there, do our thing as we have shown we are capible of, and provide the Netlabel a final product come 30 some odd days after the fact.

All the Net Label need do is say the word and post the final "product." Obviously the net Label would have final say in these situations as to what gets represented by the Netlabel officially but if done properly the final product returned would be representative of the quality of past releases.

Again, this applies to all community projects ala White Noise, FWAM, MAWM, so on / so fourth. After all, the Netlabel has been quiet for a time. But, perhaps, if there were other avenues for getting releases out, besides it being a one man burden, I'm sure the proliferation of what it is we are trying to do would increase exponentially.

I know relic and I'd be down. and I'm sure anyone else with a community project that had proven they have the chops to sustain would be down as well.

Thanks be to everyone for your time and for letting me state my case.


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Old 10-06-2014, 06:57 PM   #33
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

I would be disappointed if the AEP was excluded from this section. The fact it is run by IDMF forumers and has also sponsored artists from this forum as well makes it in my mind acceptable. I wonder why we are even discussing it to be honest. I think the discussion should really focus more on the projects the IDMF community could invest in going forward.

It is a minute detail that the project was conceived outside of the community, imo. I hope more projects like this come to light, however considering all the work and time things like this takes it's probably not likely.

If anything it is a good thing for IDMF as it brings publicity and people here to this forum without any work on behalf of people behind the scenes at IDMF.

For projects to take off they need to have an incentive, a release, or some sort of finished work. I know that I am motivated to participate in AEP because I will be included in a published released if I make it in.

Honestly that is the bottom line in this, there needs to be an incentive. We are all busy and need that extra something to bite.

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Old 11-06-2014, 02:47 AM   #34
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

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I really liked all of it even the uber high requirements for being able to post something in here. Not because I don't want outsiders but because I too really like to see this section of the board thrive.
Yeah, it's not so much about being exclusive as it is about trust. I trust that someone who has been here for years and has thousands of posts to behave appropriately within the community. As a moderator, you see the veterans and similarly vintaged users self-moderating all of the time by deleting or editing their posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
Shit, if you really want to be above board, you could even have an open section within the community center where folks could present their projects to the community at large for a vote. All that might sound stringent but two things...
I like the idea of having a project development sub-forum. I'm not so sure about the voting, people can vote by participating. But it could be a good place to float unrefined ideas to the community to gauge a reaction and get advice on structuring the project.

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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
First the main problem with community projects is they never really go off. Sometimes they do, but mostly, as @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
; said they're really a bunch of chatter if not planned properly with people who are committed to lead.
I really believe that a lot of threads in the Community Projects section are half-cocked - not because there's no value in them, or they're no good - simply because they are based on people's interpretations of a community project. With no standard to work on, it falls to the OP to structure their project how they see fit.

And there's some really cool stuff in this section, like [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
. I mean, how quirky is that? Send him a sound and he'll play something on the piano and send it back to you. That's gold! Same with [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
. Another cool idea poorly executed. A few members went out and grabbed some albums and that's about as far as it went.

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Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
So, if stringent requirements are set forth for officially opening your project within the community here chances are it might go off better than a simple idea banged out in a three line OP of some thread.
Maybe if there was guidelines for the different types of community projects we see posted and members and some infrastructure for running them, we'd see more participation. Eg: I could set aside some space on my server to host submissions for a project run by someone who is less technically proficient or who doesn't have the resource, or @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
could look over their project thread before it gets posted.

Looking over the threads currently in the Community Projects section, there's a few types of projects. If I had to describe these using a single word only, they would be:
  • Challenges - QAWM, Five Dollar / Five Album
  • Competitions - AEP Remix Competitions, White Noise "Competition"
  • Compilation - Douche Factor, Pegasia White Noise Compilation
  • Resources - IDMf and other Sample Packs, Field Recording Submissions, IDMf or other Radio
  • Collaboration - bbb's piano thread, Kneedless' mass collab idea

Now, I'm not saying that this is an exhaustive list or that a project fits into one of these specific definitions. Most project ideas are a combination of two or more of these. But I feel that if we can agree to some loose definitions for these, we can then ask the members experienced in these types of projects help us better defne them.

And I would stress, that we should be working on guidelines, not rules. I'd already suggested some rules for projects based on my own philosophy towards information and content and a few of the mods were very quick to point out the restrictions that rules place on creativity. Since then, I've changed my thinking towards this process so that it's not so much about what you can and can't do in this section, but what is the best way to do whatever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
In running the Altered Echo Project, along with @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
;, I've realized that keeping up with a release per month schedule is a very tall order. I'm sure you @[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
;, have felt pressure at times in this same vein too. Imagine how much easier things would be and how much more music would get out if, once a project has proven it can be run well, you bring said project in for an official release in partnership with the IDMf Netlabel with all it's full force and backing.
Man, running labels is hard. The last label I was working on folded when I stopped working on it because the infrastructure was so dependent on my knowledge and input to facilitate its operation. Given my absence, I'm not fully up to speed with all things IDMf 2014. But I do understand that there have been less IDMfr releases in recent times. I remember when we first launched the label and Ben and (I think) fiddy were busting their asses to get everything set up and going. The first few months were really stressful for them - it's hard enough running a label as it is, without the democratic requirements of IDMf to consider. But the guys did really well in setting up all of the infrastructure for releasing music... I don't want to stray too far from talking about guides and project types for now. I'll just say that I think it would be great to utilise the IDMfr resources for successful projects.
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:08 AM   #35
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

I don't think we should focus on rewarding long time members with elite status, it would be better if we just took all proposals on their own merit tbh as the longevity of your time on the forum is not directly proportional to your ability to come up with good ideas. Got a good idea for a true community project, noob? Then let's hear it. If it's good we should be putting it into practice and your IDMf status shouldn't matter.

You want to run your own project, take responsibility for that and put your name on it at the end? Cool, go for it, but don't necessarily expect to get continued IDMf backing by permanently advertising it here and relying on this community as a resource to produce music for your label's benefit, because that's not an IDMf community project, and we shouldn't confuse the two.

We've never outsourced people to run projects on behalf of IDMf and I don't think we need to start now tbh. We rely on people stepping up and volunteering their time to benefit the community as a whole under the IDMf name, not to give themselves a leg up in the real world off the back of IDMf.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:39 PM   #36
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

^Fair enough...

What, then, is your definition of a community project?

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Old 11-06-2014, 01:52 PM   #37
Vlantis
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

If I put stems for one of my releases up and ask people to remix them without a super strict deadline, and privately ask a few others outside of IDMf, with plans on collecting the ones I like and releasing them, does that count as a community project or better posted in the LB? I've been thinking about doing this fairly soon....

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Old 11-06-2014, 01:55 PM   #38
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
^Fair enough...

What, then, is your definition of a community project?
I thought this was fairly concise and easy to understand tbh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lug View Post
It's projects that idmfers build up together, inside of the idmf community. If I'm part of another label and that label calls for submissions for a compilation and I would like idmfers to know about it, I wouldn't post it here because it's not a project that I built inside the community. It's some friend's project, from outside the forum, someone nobody here knows about. The final product wouldn't be tagged "idmf" and the artists that would sign in wouldn't be tagged "idmfers". The project could have existed without the idmf community.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:04 PM   #39
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlantis View Post
If I put stems for one of my releases up and ask people to remix them without a super strict deadline, and privately ask a few others outside of IDMf, with plans on collecting the ones I like and releasing them, does that count as a community project or better posted in the LB? I've been thinking about doing this fairly soon....
I would say IDMf Artists Center or Member Releases
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:06 PM   #40
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Re: The ultimate IDMf Community project?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlantis View Post
If I put stems for one of my releases up and ask people to remix them without a super strict deadline, and privately ask a few others outside of IDMf, with plans on collecting the ones I like and releasing them, does that count as a community project or better posted in the LB? I've been thinking about doing this fairly soon....
Haha, yeah this kind of conundrum is what we're talking about too.
TBH with someone like you (a long time trusted member and IDMf artist) we'd probably let it slide wherever you posted it while keeping an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get too spammy and encourage other spam in that section.
We want to be helpful and actively support our members and their ventures outside IDMf, but at the same time this should be seen as wholly separate from IDMf imo.
This would be your release, not an IDMf release and so not really an IDMf Community Project even though it may involve some of the IDMf community.
Seems pretty simple to me tbh.

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