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Old 06-09-2016, 05:46 AM   #21
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Originally Posted by jimmusician View Post
This is why that thing notation is very important. You've just complexed yourself to a stop by not using it. :problemofficer:
Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by notation, but how is this supposed to help?

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Old 06-09-2016, 10:09 AM   #22
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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scratch that, people who like IDM only care about how you do it and give zero fucks about the message, so maybe you're not asking the right people.
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:06 AM   #23
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by notation, but how is this supposed to help?
I think it just helps to strip things down to the notes you're going to use in the piano roll and then find patches that "agree" with what you're doing than going "oh, I must have this!". Same with automation....nice, as an added bonus, but not from the getgo.
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Old 07-09-2016, 02:19 AM   #24
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

Ah, so I understood correctly.

I don't really look at the piano roll. I'm more into using a MIDI interface of some sort and leave the notation to Maschine or, recently, hardware.

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Old 08-09-2016, 03:12 PM   #25
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
Ah, so I understood correctly.

I don't really look at the piano roll. I'm more into using a MIDI interface of some sort and leave the notation to Maschine or, recently, hardware.
I'm sort of the opposite. I played a lot of electric bass before I started, so point and click composing was refreshing. I have a midi keyboard but I'm just not great at keys.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:15 AM   #26
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

Me neither. That's why I'm such a big Maschine fan. Always in key.

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Old 09-09-2016, 03:32 AM   #27
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Originally Posted by liquid_air View Post
Me neither. That's why I'm such a big Maschine fan. Always in key.
I think it just helps to understand your scales and modes really. I haven't really done much this year but in previous ones I've always managed to pull something out from within that kept an odd, dissonant, but powerful sound.

I think this is the year tho that I go from crap soundcard to soundcard I can actually record myself and take work recording bands if I wanted.
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Old 11-09-2016, 01:22 PM   #28
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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yep good question mate. It's hard to know. Hard to answer.

Using less and less material in a tune has basically two interrelated effects. First, it generally increases intelligibility for your listener (which is desirable); second, it generally decreases interest (not desirable).

So yep, it's a balancing act. A lot of theorists have toyed with the idea that a musical emotion is no more or less than the euphoria which comes from the brain's extremely complex act of parsing musical information. As your listeners are more and more musically experienced, or familiar with the variety of music you create, they're more likely to absorb and enjoy increasingly dense or difficult music. At the same time, a) they still need to be able to grasp what you're putting out there in some way, and, ideally, b) even though it's interesting, your music is still broadly appealing, maybe even to an audience less familiar with your variety of music making. Spelling it out like this makes it sound difficult, and yep, I think it never stops being difficult.

Probably the best thing to aim at is merely to make the kind of music that you yourself would enjoy on first listen.

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Old 12-09-2016, 03:53 AM   #29
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

It happens to me to, and keeps me from releasing. It's like so much ambiton becomes bad. Like trying to create a custom library for omnisphere or something haha.

I have to limit myself to styles, instruments, and a concept. Once I place these limits I find it easier to start doing things and geting them done. It is hard though, but personally making concepts and giving meaning helps me create.

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Old 16-09-2016, 10:52 PM   #30
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

I have thought about this again as I have been messing with the launchpad to make glitchy shit, never enough, just keep slapping track after track after track after track, then start resampling and slicing, then slicing more and more and more, then you will feel like you are worth something to your peers (even though you aren't.

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Old 16-09-2016, 10:53 PM   #31
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Old 05-01-2017, 02:10 AM   #32
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

With electronic composition, I think it's very easy to clutter a sound in two ways: 1) to have too much going on in one section. 2) to have too many sections going on in one track or too many competing themes.

My take on composition (keep in mind my rule of thumb is to make a hard rule and then bend and break that rule as needed):

Don't just collect a bunch of stuff and then start figuring out what to do with it.
This is good for exploring ideas to make a song, but not for making the song.
It's the electronic composition equivalent of recording a freeform jam session on traditional instruments and after a while deciding that was a song. No; that was experimenting with sound.
That's more like the first draft. Now you go back through and pick out what was the most interesting and make a song from that.

Always have a specific idea in mind of what the song is before you begin.
Don't start by just sitting there in front of an empty screen and playing around until something happens and then do it some more until something else happens, and just keep piling on things until it sounds interesting enough for that part that you're working on.
This creates long sets of disjointed music, or tracks that don't seem to have a narrative direction.
By narrative direction, I mean that it feels like it's going somewhere with a purpose as opposed to existing because a bunch of sound was compiled together.
It's perfectly alright to play around until you find some phrasing that you really enjoy and then to stop and think about that for a while - stew on it; let it simmer - and figure out what the feel and nature of that phrase is. Then you think about how you want to get to that phrase in the first place (is it the first thing you hear, something you work up to, something that leads to another more important part?), and then once you have that gut feeling worked out (it doesn't have to be cognitive; just as long as you can feel the pull of its movement in your gut as to what environment that phrase lives in), then you sit back down and work on putting it into place in some skeletal form - even if crude.

Even better is when you can get a sense of a whole song layout in general before starting - you don't have to know the specifics, but the general feeling of things beforehand is extremely helpful.
I often ask myself, "How do I want to feel?" and then I ask, "How do I want to get to that feeling?", and that's when I sit down - when I can answer those things (providing what I'm writing isn't a technical exploration where I'm trying to see what counterpoint theory in EDM would sound like, etc...).

Ultimately, my preference that I offer to folks is to know at least a bassline, rhythm section, or melody for at least 2 bars before sitting down, and when you do, put that down and circle back to what I said before.

Which leads me to the idea of priority.

Always have a leading voice.
You have a finite amount of space and time to say what you mean to say musically in a song - regardless if anyone else understands what it was that you just said or not. A song has about 3 primary components of space per phrase and you have up to about 3 total phrases that you can centrally express before the tangent is just lost as to what the main phrase even is and the entire track converts to the brain as "wandering" (or is part of a musical).
The 3 primary components are bass, rhythm (both sonic and tonal), and melody.
In a traditional song, the 3 phrases are easy because it's verse, chorus, and bridge.
In electronic music that's a bit more up for grabs, but it's still much the same.
In fact, with EDM, I would venture that you can be even more easily served with 2 phrases and a diversity of texture (different instruments/sounds in layer addition/reduction) to give the variety.
And in all of this you have ONE phrase that you can really plop as the highest priority - THE main identity of the song - even in Kraftwerk's 20 minute marathon Autobahn, the central theme there is extremely clear.
So you have to look at your few phrases that you've constructed, or are thinking about constructing (or are feeling - as often it's not so much a cognitive thought but a tug on the gut - a vague foggy thought somewhere in the subconscious) and determine which of them is THE central theme; the GO TO sound of the track.
Everyone immediately knows the Imperial March because of its clear central phrase even though it goes on for more than that and most probably couldn't hum you anything other than just that part.
The same goes with Iron Man - everyone knows that central theme, but far fewer know the rest of the song.
And so it is true with Autobahn as well - everyone knows "fun fun fun on the autobahn", but no one could probably often cite you anything outside of that part.
Ghost N Stuff from Deadmau5 is the same as well; there's a very central theme to it and most anyone who has heard that track can pick it out the moment it pops up, or even if someone is making a tip-o-the-hat to that track's central theme/phrase.

You NEED that in there (imo); if it's not in there, then you have 2 to 3 people talking to me at the same time (metaphor: each phrase is like a different character of the same story - without one being the "main" protagonist, then it's as if I have a story where all three stories are of equal weight and there's no real rise and fall to the arc of the energy of the art).
I need to hear one clear voice that the whole thing is about. "OH! THAT'S what this song was made for!"

That's my 2 nuyen,
Cheers!
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Old 05-01-2017, 12:14 PM   #33
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Re: Too much stuff going on?

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Originally Posted by mute machine View Post
never too much, if a song doesn't sound right, delete what doesn't sound right or just keep it, add more then label it as experimental...
hahah I liked this so much I made it my signature

well I have been struggling with composition since I started, I just dont seem to lack a natural tendency to follow the "norm". the results have been devided between tracks that are lacking a certain something and results that succeed in keeping the interest of the listener. but in the end (or at least the further down you go) the better you will get at making things work.

take for example the track in my signature

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mute machine View Post
never too much, if a song doesn't sound right, delete what doesn't sound right or just keep it, add more then label it as experimental...
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