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The Side Room Off topic chat about pretty much anything other than music. Try to be respectful. Strong debate is welcomed, insults and trolling are not. This area is for over 18's only and may occasionally contain NSFW material, although it's not encouraged.

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Old 04-11-2017, 03:52 PM   #1
Daggit
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Icon2 Open PM from a Mod

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This is what I received in recent days.
I intend to comply with the request, however not without fair disclosure of the issues to the rest of the forum.

I will post up my entire reply for everyone to read in two posts.

This makes it easier for anybody and everybody who comes to this site and uses this site or runs this site, to have a better idea of current "weather" here.

I edited the screenshot I posted above only to remove the mod's identity so they don't get flamed. The content of the post was not edited by me nor anybody I know. Naturally, I'm not a mod, either.

You guys can all read as much or as little as you feel like, but the only opinions and responses that matter are by those who read the entire two posts of text. Everybody else might be missing some facts and cherrypicking out the facts isn't accurate nor logical.

I'm thankful to the mod who PM'ed me because it was more civilized polite communication and not as abrasive as other messages I've received outside of the PM format.

They deserve some respect for trying to communicate rather than just trying to shut me down. That's why I edited out their identifying infos.

I'm OK with the request from the mod even though you might assume that I'm not if you only read certain parts of my posts. I had a couple of days to think about the message that was sent to me and what may or may not have prompted it.

Please realize that by the time I archived, uploaded and posted the following 2-post reply (2 parts), my perspective was already somewhat different than right after I read the PM and started typing.

For those with no patience for my communication style, I have two words for you: "no worries".

...

Last edited by Daggit; 05-11-2017 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: some jerk hacked the title

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Old 04-11-2017, 03:53 PM   #2
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

REPLY PART ONE OF TWO:

Thanks for communicating instead of just auto-banning or whatnot.
I will tone it down although it's really ironic since this site used to be VERY full of meme jokes and nobody ever complained about it that I know of. The only reason why I will tone it down is because I know it can drain forum resources in terms of bandwidth and I don't want that to be a problem for you guys or the other IDMf members. But I'm very skeptical of anybody finding it annoying except for people who want to bully me and maybe people who browse from phones where the pictures load slowly.

I will still tone it down, though. And if you are concerned about bandwidth, please note that in recent months I have drastically reduced the number of youtube videos I post, since those slow down browsers and servers A LOT. With Flash requirements and sometimes the related HTML stylings as well as the fact that video streaming takes up tons more than audio, I just decided that it doesn't make much sense to waste all that bandwidth when just talking about tunes. So now I tend to just type the names of bands and artists and tunes, more than before, and people can look them up independently pretty easily.

Also, I don't have a large Pictures & Albums section like I used to. I don't post up gigantic homemade artworks nor photos. When I do post up art or photos, I always try to keep the filesizes as low as possible. It's not usually very difficult with the type of artwork that I like to do--usually it scales well to PNG since it's mostly solid colours, including the Reaper and Linux DAW screenshots I post up. Most of those aren't even hosted here, so those shouldn't be a problem either, even though they are small file sizes.

I will tone it down to prevent issues for those on phones too, but you should be aware that some people on this forum just like to bully me over and over again, and then others join them whenever I stand up for myself because I don't take people's crap. If they found it truly annoying, why didn't I get any PM's from them about it? Well, to be fair, I guess I might have PM's turned off... so maybe that's why.

I do appreciate you explaining an alternative way for me to continue to be a normal user not breaking any rules and not pissing people off. However, I don't normally post a lot of memes actually, and the long-term users who remember me from all these years probably can verify that for you. Nevertheless, I won't make meme's my general forum-wide posting policy, like you mentioned. I wouldn't be into that either.

I try to contribute to the forums in terms of all the related categories except for those that I don't know a damned thing about, or not enough to be useful. The areas where I'm most active (Linux DAW stuff, VST instrument stuff, engineering techniques, technology & lifestyle) tend to reflect areas that I know enough about. I do know some music theory, but I gladly abandoned a lot of music theory after realising how much of it isn't relevant to real-life music production. The portions of theory which are still relevant I still care about, but I've pretty much forgotten how to even read notation/sheet music so I'm kinda tuned out of that.

Also, I do acknowledge that a few of the images might have been too big, but I didn't think it would be a problem since the forum automatically resizes large images down to minimums until people click on them to expand them. But I don't often post up big ones, I know several mods and admins used to do that regularly, and I didn't mind--what they posted was funny as hell.

Anyways, I don't want you to be put into any awkward situations as a mod or admin either. That's not fun for anybody. I know you guys work hard to make the site decent. And I'm certainly not against complying.

If it really is true that people are upset with me just pretty much being a regular everyday normal forum poster, which is certainly possible, of course I'm not always right, then that might reflect more about their idiosyncracies than anything about me. Some people enjoy being internet bullies. I'm not one of them, but the statistics and articles and documentaries and support groups and PSA's about them are out there very much. I'm a prime target because I'm so visible as a forum user. That doesn't necessarily mean that every complaint you might get about me originates from me at all. It might merely mean that the typical internet bullies target me because I come to this forum many days per month during some times of the year, and enjoy posting and reading here. So my name is all over the place in the forums during those times. When I'm gone, of course it's not gonna show up as much. But what I actually do here, hardly ever breaks any rules, and when it has does there's always a mod to tell me, and then I comply. My record is still pretty good.

My mental health is decent these days, so I'm not posting up weird stuff. I don't post up scams or fake news nor propaganda. Whenever I link to any real-world materials, it really is real world materials even if people feel insecure about the contents. I never post up anything that exploits other people. I don't post up anything to gross people out nor to make people freaked out. Once somebody posted up a video and photos of people eating live bugs. I sure as hell don't do crap like that--I put people like that on my ignore list. But that person didn't get banned as far as I know, and they didn't get censored either.

My very normal--everyday posts seem to get censored a lot here. I think there might be some latent fear of reality. Like when I posted a thread about the current status of the threat of nuclear weapons, and even though it was in the Side Room area, and not a long post either, the whole thread got closed by a mod with little to no explanation. I didn't invent the threat of nuclear weapons. Young people, old people, everybody has a right to know about this stuff and musicians used to be considered some of the most intellectually advanced types of people on the planet. But people can't even think about what they don't even know about if it just gets censored to oblivion. And the thing is, we tend to educate each other constantly about VST's and music tech. So I'm not just trying to help educated other people, I'm trying to continue the fascillitating of conversation and free-thinking. People teach me and others good things too every time we have good conversations here, whether about music stuff or not.

I'm a musician and engineer to the core, and I literally try to think about that stuff every day--to become a better musician/engineer. But it's not the only thing that matters.

I don't do FaceBook nor Twitter nor MySpace nor LinkedIn nor Tumbler, nor DeviantArt, nor Pinterst, nor KIK, nor any other kind of social networking. This is the number one site that I enjoy for every single one of the sections, even the sections that I don't usually post in. I still read those too for as much as I can comprehend.

I don't do obnoxious signatures, avatars, nor profile pics, I don't do large files for those either. I don't do a lot of big animated .GIFs. Possibly there were a few that were too big when I replied to somebody bullying me, but it was an attempt to rebutt their hostility with humor. It doesn't happen alot. That was the first time I even had to do that.

But I get that for those who don't want their browsers to slow down to read a bunch of pictures, it could be frustrating, so I won't do that. And like I implied, I will tone down and avoid the big comic strips. But I certainly am not the only nor the first person to post up funny or interesting comic strips here. I didn't even know that internet comics even existed until benwaa or somebody (can't remember now, it was years ago) posted.

As for the meme's, if people are really that fed up with meme's, why are they even partaking in the internet? The whole internet is one big giant fucking meme, if you think about. YouTube, Google, all of it.

Since when did having a sense of humor with image editing become a crime?

END OF PART ONE OF REPLY OF TWO PARTS

Last edited by Daggit; 04-11-2017 at 04:00 PM..

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Old 04-11-2017, 03:55 PM   #3
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

REPLY PART TWO OF TWO

But don't worry, if you really want to be in the business of stifling creativity, have at it.
Most successful internet business and clubs start out very creative and interesting. And then, after they peak past a level of success, they typically get overrun by committees and self-appointed experts and the censors and the back-biters and the puritannical editors and the mainstream advertisings and all that junk that used to get filtered out defacto. Eventually, they all end up totally unsuccessful, and their oldschool supporters start to resent what they've become. It's very much like mainstream culture in general in every way. It starts out with the underground avant garde, then it gets successful, then it gets taken over and turned into crap, and then it gets discarded and forgotten after being turned into a bad cariacature of what it used to be. I'm not saying you're the cause of it, just saying that it seems like mods and admins are always at risk of becoming what they fear the most. I think a lot of people want to be at the center of hubs of creativity but then they start doing stuff which actually kills off the creativity and the fun while in the process of trying to make protocols, formulas, standards, rules, enforcements, dress-code etcetera.

I think this incident is mostly like a dress-code type of scenario, more than anything else. This site is still going strong, but it's like I showed up wearing a Meat Beat Manifesto T-Shirt and now I'm getting flack because all of a sudden people are into button-down pleated white silk dress shirts with navy blue cravats and I didn't get the memo.

It kinda stinks like the high-school yearbook committee where all the rich kids were the editors and "journalists" and they made sure that the only photos to actually make it into the final printings, were just themselves and their closest buddies. 80% of the rest of the school was edited out of printed existence, even though we were very much there.

I don't fall for that type of stuff. I might not fit in because I'm literally 40something years old, but so are some of the major successful Electronic Music artists, and I think it's good to not be old and intolerant of other cultures and art and music and creativity and information and expression. I think it's ok to care about the world and also enjoy the fun things too. To me those aren't mutually exclusive. But it seems more and more like a few people that are also regulars here think that creative fun and serious thinking are mutually exlusive.

Thanks for reading this.

I figured you deserved a complete explanation and a full response, not some kind of half-assed dismissive bullshit like a lot of people try to pass off as "deep thought".

From my perspective in life, the only thing that ever matters is what actually happened/happens/will happen. Everything else is usually somebody's propanda or myopic ego talking.

The only way to reduce some of the propanda and myopic ego talking is for people to share facts and for individuals to seek facts. I don't just say that, I live that every day. And I don't even share that much stuff compared to what I filter out. If people are offended by facts, what are they doing living on Planet Earth? If people are offended by creativity, what are they doing hanging out with artists and musicians? If people are offended by humor, I feel sorry for them, laughter can be very theraputic psychologically and biologically.

If a specific joke irked somebody, a mod could let me know which joke was too gutsy and why and how it was offensive and I'd take it down myself and apologize and replace it with something specifically designed to to still be funny but no longer offensive in any way.

I'm not rigid, I can adapt; I enjoy creativity. I'm not into destroying anything.

and last but not least, just because somebody posts up the now-cliche "troll face" it doesn't mean a defacto act of hostility.
I dont use the "f-you" (finger) smiley, either. I think some people are just friggen scared of anything that has anything with the term "troll" whether they even know the connotations and denotations of the word at all.

Those are my beliefs. I hope that people won't confuse beliefs with actions either.
I will comply with the rules and respect your request, but you needed to know a bit more which is why you got all this.
It wasn't to make you upset, it was because there is clearly more going on behind the scenes, and it's not all about me, despite posting here a lot during the last month.

Sincerely,
BlackBurst, AstroIDMist, Nystagmus(E), Daggit

P.S.-I didn't percieve your PM to me as being censorship.

END OF PART TWO OF REPLY OF TWO PARTS

Last edited by Daggit; 04-11-2017 at 04:06 PM..

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Old 04-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #4
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

I strongly doubt anyone is out to bully anyone else here, seriously this place is the friendliest place on the internet imo.
I am not sure how many memes you've been posting, I know you did a meme thread I enjoyed.
But wow way to over respond a bit to a simple ask. How long did it take you to type all that up?

Also I didn't realize you were Nystagmus, nice to see you around again, why the profile change if I may?
Cheers

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Old 04-11-2017, 05:53 PM   #5
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Also I didn't realize you were Nystagmus, nice to see you around again, why the profile change if I may?
Cheers
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When I was on SoundCloud, there was another person named "Nystagmus" even though that was my forum name here (at IDMf). On SoundCloud, I tried to be "NystagMusE", and before that I was "Apophenia Confabulation" for a while.

The main reason for the recent change is that I got locked out of my email and totally forgot a decent password change that I made here. I deliberately chose the type of password that I wouldn't normally choose nor remember.

The downside is that I just plain couldn't remember the password back into my account here after a certain amount of time passed.

My current username, pronounced "DAWG-EEET" is just a made up word from my childhood when I was about 8 years old playing with legos and a friend of mine. We made some lego animals and gave them made up names. One of the toys I had made a friend of mine named because it looked like a dog. But it was supposed to be a robot dog so my friend made up a word and I thought it was cool. It doesn't mean anything other than the name of a lego dog

If I get some legos sometime, I will rebuild it and post up a photo of what it looked like. It was tiny because of course, it was just legos hehehe, not much bigger than the lego people.

When I had to choose a new forum name, I wanted to choose a word I would remember and that was not a typical English word. I also wanted to be able to remember the related password (even if and when not related).

Memory is definately a component of password humanisation.

So yeah, that's the real answer.
Peace be with ya.

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Old 04-11-2017, 10:18 PM   #6
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

whoa, you're really deep into hard memeing

Daggit, more like Dank-meme-it

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Old 05-11-2017, 12:38 AM   #7
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

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Originally Posted by Daggit View Post
My very normal--everyday posts seem to get censored a lot here.


I'd love to see some examples where you think you've been censored here.

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Old 05-11-2017, 01:15 AM   #8
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

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Originally Posted by jbvdb493 View Post
seriously this place is the friendliest place on the internet imo.

Agreed.

If the mods were dicks, this thread would be closed already and there'd be no room for discussion

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:29 AM   #9
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

FWIW I like your posts on Linux stuff, audio production, music you've discovered, software etc. You seem like a nice dude. Whenever I log on, I take time to read your posts.

But also: I hate memes with a passion. I think it's the lowest form of 'art' or communication out there. But I seem to be the only person on planet internet that thinks so, so what do I know? Anyway, I would never complain about what you are doing - I'm not on here often enough to be affected by anything anyway.

Keep being you, but also be part of a community. It IS pretty friendly in here isn't it?

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Old 05-11-2017, 03:25 AM   #10
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

FWIW I honestly havent noticed a trend in Daggit posting memes much. Just a few places here and there recently.

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Old 05-11-2017, 10:45 AM   #11
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

I sent that PM.
Zero fucks.

It wasn't intended as an open letter though, and it's really not a good approach for anyone here to post Private messages from the mod team, in some sort of weak attempt at protest.
It shows a lack of trust and respect if you ask me and I don't think it would be appreciated at all if the positions were reversed.

Look guys, let's get this straight again, IDMf is not your anarchic playground to post whatever and however you want at any time, and furthermore it is the mod teams duty to run this place in the interest of everyone, not any individual.
You have no 'rights' to any position here. You are granted the ability to post here because, for the most part we feel people's posts are reasonable. As soon as your posts are deemed unreasonable we will take whatever action we deem necessary, regardless of who you think you or your status are here.
If that's too hard on your feels then you're in the wrong place.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:59 PM   #12
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Re: PM From lolirl that I foolishly decided to share

i just feel the need to question your claim to being homeless.

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Old 05-11-2017, 02:14 PM   #13
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Re: Open Letter From a Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggit View Post
Young people, old people, everybody has a right to know about this stuff and musicians used to be considered some of the most intellectually advanced types of people on the planet.
Time have changed, my good man. Now we're the poorest

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Old 05-11-2017, 04:25 PM   #14
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Icon2 Open Letter From a Mod

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Somebody changed the title of my original post to something different from what I chose.
The original title was "Open Letter From a Mod". Here's an archived screenshot of the original page, about 25 seconds after I posted it.

If you were attracted to this post for the other name that somebody else put, somebody else set you up for that, not me. The original post was put up November 4th, 10 am Central Standard Time.
As I said before, the original post title was "Open Letter From a Mod" and did NOT mention any mods nor users by name at all, and I edited out the original PM sender's identifying data, so that nobody's feelings would be hurt.

If my posts start getting edited too, don't worry, I keep archives of what I post too. And I go back and proofread my posts right after I post them. You guys should do the same so you aren't set up by hucksterism no matter what the source. Press [PRT SC] to get a screen shot and paste it into your image editor (for taking pictures of your audio projects or web posts).

There's nothing wrong with posting the contents of a PM the way I did it: It did not violate anybody's privacy whatsoever. And the rest of the forum has a right to know when a mod is putting the heat on any of us. It wasn't protest, it was a head's up and an oppportunity to get a more democratic perspective on this. I value the perspectives of other users on IDMf, and wanted to find out if people really thought I was posting up too many memes during my years here at IDMf or if maybe it was just one or two people who for some reason feel insecure when I post up stuff that doesn't even have anything to do with them. I don't know what other people's motivations are for messing with me, but it has happened before here. And it JUST happened within the past DAY, when somebody modified my post title to something lame and inaccurate.

I don't know if the mod did that to him/her self or if a different mod did it to them to mess with them too, or if somebody hacked their account. But it's irrelevant. How the rest of you guys use the forum actually is NOT solely up to the mod; if it were, they could delete all your posts, delete all your uploads, sell your email addresses, sell your compositions and keep the profits, and try to publicly humiliate you.

This forum wouldn't have any good content at all without the user participation. It would just be a handful of mods talking to each other which wouldn't be a forum, that's be a cross between a blog and instant messaging between a couple of mods.

Yes, there are forum rules, but if the mods don't obey their own forum rules then at least you guys know what's up. I know some mods have broken their own rules before; I've been here for more than a few years. But it seems like those people quit breaking the rules and quit being mods (or maybe they were kicked out of being mods; I don't know... I wasn't involved).

I don't have a problem with any of the mods at all. I just think that when a questionable action occurs, people have a right to question it. In this instance, it wasn't even an action yet; just a forewarning of action, which seemed decent, yet somewhat uninformed. Since I value the thoughts and feelings of others here at IDMf, I decided to allow the rest of you guys to have some opportunity to comment or at least to know. That's pretty simple. If it gets worse than that, don't worry there's still some other discourse available.

Last edited by Daggit; 05-11-2017 at 04:48 PM..

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Old 05-11-2017, 04:43 PM   #15
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Re: PM From lolirl that I foolishly decided to share

i can't believe it all started with memes and now we have this

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Old 05-11-2017, 04:56 PM   #16
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Icon2 Definition of a Meme (for those who claim to hate them)

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i can't believe it all started with memes and now we have this
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meme ~ noun very rare
1. a cultural unit (an idea or value or pattern of behavior) that is passed from one person to another by non-genetic means (as by imitation)
memes are the cultural counterpart of genes
That's why the entire internet is in fact a meme, in a way, much of the time.
Whenever we share our techniques of making music (patterns of behavior) with each other, we are exchanging cultural units as defined above; that's the definition of a meme. It's a term from semiotics. I used to read about semiotics which are a part of communication theory/information theory. Whenever we share ideas about tunes or music composition, we are sharing ideas. When we talk about why composers should or shouldn't use certain audio techniques, we are sharing values. So yeah, if you want to stop using memes, the best thing to do is to stop using the internet completely and pretty much just sit by yourself and not communicate with anybody and not consume anything with any cultural information at all (which is in fact nearly impossible unless you grow and build everything that you eat, wear, and use). But of course you'd be relying upon your education which comes from the culture that raised you. And your thoughts would be primarily in the language of the culture that taught you to speak. So yeah, everything from education is a meme too. So if you are against memes, then abolish language and education too. Not an easy task. And I'm not even "trolling" anybody.

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Old 05-11-2017, 05:08 PM   #17
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Re: PM From lolirl that I foolishly decided to share

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That's why the entire internet is in fact a meme, in a way, much of the time.
Whenever we share our techniques of making music (patterns of behavior) with each other, we are exchanging cultural units as defined above; that's the definition of a meme. It's a term from semiotics. I used to read about semiotics which are a part of communication theory/information theory. Whenever we share ideas about tunes or music composition, we are sharing ideas. When we talk about why composers should or shouldn't use certain audio techniques, we are sharing values. So yeah, if you want to stop using memes, the best thing to do is to stop using the internet completely and pretty much just sit by yourself and not communicate with anybody and not consume anything with any cultural information at all (which is in fact nearly impossible unless you grow and build everything that you eat, wear, and use). But of course you'd be relying upon your education which comes from the culture that raised you. And your thoughts would be primarily in the language of the culture that taught you to speak. So yeah, everything from education is a meme too. So if you are against memes, then abolish language and education too. Not an easy task. And I'm not even "trolling" anybody.
Thanks, but we already know what a meme is..is there a point in here somewhere that I'm missing?

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Old 05-11-2017, 05:18 PM   #18
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As for "trolling"... here's what "trolling" actually is:

And here's an actual real normal website about trolling motors:
https://fishingbonanza.com/top-elect...tors-reviewed/

Anybody from Minnesota wouldn't even find this the least bit funny because there's so many fishermen and women there. Trolling is simply fishing in a boat while it drives forward really quietly and slowly as to not scare the fish. "Angling" means "fishing", as in fishing for fish (perch, bluegill, bass, northern pike, walleyed pike, catfish, etc).


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Definition of trolling, a form of angling.
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Definition of angling.

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Trolling motors, the same type as shown at https://fishingbonanza.com a site for fishermen.

Last edited by Daggit; 05-11-2017 at 05:23 PM..

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Old 05-11-2017, 05:27 PM   #19
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Re: PM From lolirl that I foolishly decided to share

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Old 05-11-2017, 05:27 PM   #20
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Re: PM From lolirl that I foolishly decided to share

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