Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general
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Old 29-10-2017, 03:14 PM   #1
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Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Year 2030, Brian is returning to home, as he was decommissioned from work on the grounds that The Singularity decided that human representatives don't make much difference anymore as elder generations faded away. He walked straight into house. Nano-matter raised from the floor instantly and took shape of an armchair.

Welcome home, Brian, how can I aid you ?

Despite that Singularity could read emotions and sometimes even thoughts perfectly by observing face and act accordingly, he was one of those stubborn old-schooled people that didn't want to let the past go, he still preferred now almost obsolete audio interface, also his apartment was only one in the stratoscraper with doors installed.

Pour me some champagne mumbled Brian with sad face also turn the music on he didn't finish words as chemical processor synthesized champagne with exactly same chemical makeup as if it was 70 years old.

Singularity's local photonic CPU clusters in the fraction of fraction of picosecond went through petabytes of data and composed perfect track for this very person and for this very moment that no human musician could thought of. To write lyrics it went through hundreds of books that Brian have read 99% of which were written by Singularity personally for him. Despite her audio software could synthesize voice that no human singer could come close to he still preferred vocals of human singers from past decades. Nano matter formed hands, picked up human made e-guitar and plugged cable into worn out amplifier which were now cool looking but impractical relics that Brian was clinging on. His musical tastes were quite odd and old-fashioned compared to other dwellers.

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Old 29-10-2017, 03:29 PM   #2
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

The inevitable repost after I moved this to off topic already.
Sounds like you just watched Blade Runner.
What is your point? Why post this here?
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Old 29-10-2017, 03:35 PM   #3
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

I just wanted to lament an end of an era. I feel desperate by AI overtaking things that were "impossible" for it to do before, such as music, visual arts and etc.
For example this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PczDLl92vlc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLR-_c_uCwI

this is scaring me because i graduate to music degree and i just don't want to be useless mook. this AI music may not be as good as Batch (as for now), but thats not how real world works, billiards of people just don't care and want something to listen on their iProduct.

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Old 29-10-2017, 03:39 PM   #4
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Oh I see, you're serious.
I never understand why people always go this way with machines.
The point of human art for me is empathy.
Machines don't feel empathy and they're not human, therefore they can't be artists.
End of problem for me.
Humans will keep making art while humans exist.
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Old 29-10-2017, 03:47 PM   #5
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

No im also a "computer guy" and i have an idea how shit works. Is it really critical criteria that emotion can only happen if brain is biological ? its not the machine its software that is running in it. your brain without "software" is pile of of neurons and fat, "you", "i exit", "qualia", "soul" is electrochemical reaction between neurons, why that same reaction cant happen between virtual neurons that are simulated in software implementation? our brain cant grow after certain age, neurons just die after about 20-25 years, virtual ones can multiply as required, tl;dr there is no limit for AI it can be as smart as human and more. It can also be emotional as well if you mean this.

edit:

who will you share your art to when it will be simply outclassed ? imagine your mp3 player playing music that is perfectly fit for you and composed on the fly based on your feedback ?
"Alexa i want that catchy hook from that song and that beat from another then put some melancholic text with Freddie Mercury voice on it, generate 100 hours of worth music like i said". will you still care about your favorite bands anymore ? if you are artist will others give a shit about you ? for that matter.

sucks to be born in this shit time. i never thought i would be whining in "wrong generation" style. but fuck this shit. i wish i would be teleported into medieval age and die of plague at age of 25 in some stinking dugout rather than live now.

There wont be AI appocalypse or extreme capitalism that favors whoever owns supercomputers. Future will be just plain boring. we will be to ai like dogs are to us. do we treat them bad ? no. but are they our equal ? we will be welcome just inferior in every way. It sounds good if you think about it: peace, everything at your fingertips, full life. but it doesn't feel right i cant explain why. Dog is happy when you throw treats at him and he is eating from the floor, its brain is flooding with dopamine, it swings its tail but it sucks to be in that position...

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Old 29-10-2017, 03:53 PM   #6
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

I'm just saying they don't have to be mutually exclusive.
I like art made by humans because I'm human and I find it fascinating when they show me what we're capable of.
Machine art is cool too but it's like comparing Usain Bolt and a train.
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Old 29-10-2017, 04:17 PM   #7
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by D42K732202 View Post

edit:

who will you share your art to when it will be simply outclassed ? imagine your mp3 player playing music that is perfectly fit for you and composed on the fly based on your feedback ?
"Alexa i want that catchy hook from that song and that beat from another then put some melancholic text with Freddie Mercury voice on it, generate 100 hours of worth music like i said". will you still care about your favorite bands anymore ? if you are artist will others give a shit about you ? for that matter.

sucks to be born in this shit time. i never thought i would be whining in "wrong generation" style. but fuck this shit. i wish i would be teleported into medieval age and die of plague at age of 25 in some stinking dugout rather than live now.

There wont be AI appocalypse or extreme capitalism that favors whoever owns supercomputers. Future will be just plain boring. we will be to ai like dogs are to us. do we treat them bad no ? but are they our equal ? we will be welcome just inferior in every way. It sounds good if you think about it peace, everything at your fingertips, full life. but it doesn't feel right i cant explain why. Dog is happy when you throw treats at him and he is eating from the floor, its brain is flooding with dopamine, it swings its tail but it sucks to be in that position...
So you're depressed.
Why didn't you just say so?
I don't agree with your outlook and we're at least 5 years away from anything you're describing.
You could write some great music in 5 years or just sit there and moan about computers.
It literally makes no difference to me which you chose.
At least computers don't complain at me on the internet.
Good day.
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Old 29-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #8
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

There will always be the purist so don't worry they pay more

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Old 29-10-2017, 05:13 PM   #9
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolirl View Post
So you're depressed.
Why didn't you just say so?
I don't agree with your outlook and we're at least 5 years away from anything you're describing.
You could write some great music in 5 years or just sit there and moan about computers.
It literally makes no difference to me which you chose.
At least computers don't complain at me on the internet.
Good day.
really ? i could understand this viewpoint from casual listener/dilettante, but are you not worried about fading to vain ? i guess its acceptance

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There will always be the purist so don't worry they pay more

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honestly this gave me little bit of the hope i sought, i will sit back and enjoy that there will be at least very narrow niche for me. right ?

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Old 29-10-2017, 05:49 PM   #10
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Dude, I don't think it matters how big you get, I doubt even the most popular musician today is recognized or known by more than 15% of the world, tops (actually interested in this, may try and look it up later). And my bet is they'll be forgotten (barring being considered the beatles of rap or something) within the next 3 or 4 decades (and they'll only last that long because they'll be an oldie when we get old). In short, I don't think computers replacing artists is the problem, it's that society is so ideologically fractured among and even within countries (which is not a good or a bad thing, it's just a thing that has been since the end of romanticism/ the victorian era) and that people want art that caters to their tastes and relatively few want those tastes challenged (more and more so since the invention of the internet). Especially when there's a huge catalog of existing stuff left over from last century and prior waiting to be pored over.

I think there is a lot of music out there that really speaks to people about their life and makes them feel good or think good or whatever. Some of it is old, some of it is new, and I think it will always be that way. There's always going to be the guy who thinks it's the fucking coolest that he was listening to those dudes before anyone else, and there's going to be that other guy who think's it's just classy as balls that he doesn't listen to anything recorded after 1975. Just know your audience. You're onto something when you go looking for your niche to exist in, because nobody gets that big (statistically, like, nobody). But the vast majority of artists aren't big and famous, they work and survive in their niche.

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Old 29-10-2017, 06:13 PM   #11
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

3 cave mean out hunting take shelter from the rain in a cave. The carcass they're dragging back is bleeding out on the ground between them. Sudeenly, one cave man bends, dips his hand in the blood, walks over the wall next to him and slaps his blood-covered hand hard against the stone.

His two friends look at each other and one asks, "What the hell is he doing?"

The other guy shrugs and says,"Fuck knows, it's a thing he does..nobody really knows why..he calls it ART, but if you ask me, I don't think it'll ever catch on."

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Old 29-10-2017, 06:41 PM   #12
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Musicians/artists are not a superior race worthy of saving from eradication.

I say kill them. Kill them all.

Seriously, though... like, whatever, you know.
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Old 30-10-2017, 01:54 PM   #13
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

So Brian asks Singularity to run a job search. She does, but he doesn't even recognise the job titles she suggests.

She asks Brian if he wants to turn on some of the features he was previously trying to ignore. Maybe they will help find him a better suited job. With a sigh he turns on those features and she is able to find him the vacancy he is best suited for.

Singularity's voice changes to best suit Brian's Interviewer. Interviewer asks Brian questions. He responds, well aware he is being vetted not on his answers, but by recognition of his facial features. The algorithms are hard at work.

Interviewer tells Brian his application is being processed.

He doesn't get the job.

Singularity suggests he enrols for a college course about how to best maintain the functions of The Singularity.

Before he knows it he's cleaning up after the twenty somethings who market schoolwear ads on the latest Kodak Smartfridge. He'd make them coffee but the droids know how to make a perfect blend, and don't need to be told when to make it.

Brian sort of learns the basics second hand of how this digital marketing actually works, and although he is the oldest person in the workplace, and has the lowest position in the company, he is just about able to live.

He still has his old audio interface, and his chemical processor still makes him that old champagne, but deep down he knows what he is now. He is just one of the many people outsourcing the art. He is on his way to becoming one of those EVIL artists who makes the machines make the art.

TEN YEARS LATER and Brian's doing a bit better. He moved out of the Stratoscaper, now he makes a fuck load of money, and the "EVIL artists" are just... artists now.

And one day a younger co-worker Helen turns to him and says "hey, I'm thinking of getting a new job. I want to work in Nano Recollection Development."

And Brian's disappointed. And he shakes his head and asks Helen why she would want to leave this job. Brian looks Helen in the eye, and tells her just how important their current work is. He tells her, "what we do here is to stimulate the very clitoris of The Singularity."

Helen doesn't like the gross analogy, and gets a better job working in Nano Recollection Development.

What Brian never realised, is that while he was falling behind struggling to help bring The Singularity to orgasm, a whole new industry was also trying to get her pregnant.

What Helen didn't realise is that getting The Singularity pregnant was also going to become a weaker market, because a small development team in Switzerland had figured out how to smash multiple Singularities together in a parallel universe, multiplying them exponentially and that restraining their colonial development was just as important as maintaining them (and making them cum).

So now Brian could actually get a job exterminating singularities. And the younger Brian might have loved that. But I guess he's too old now and he can hear her starting to moan...
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Old 30-10-2017, 06:30 PM   #14
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

This might already be an out of date response, I had to archive it because my other hotspot wouldn't let me post, but here it is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by D42K732202 View Post

edit:

who will you share your art to when it will be simply outclassed ? imagine your mp3 player playing music that is perfectly fit for you and composed on the fly based on your feedback ?
"Alexa i want that catchy hook from that song and that beat from another then put some melancholic text with Freddie Mercury voice on it, generate 100 hours of worth music like i said". will you still care about your favorite bands anymore ? if you are artist will others give a shit about you ? for that matter.

sucks to be born in this shit time. i never thought i would be whining in "wrong generation" style. but fuck this shit. i wish i would be teleported into medieval age and die of plague at age of 25 in some stinking dugout rather than live now.

There wont be AI appocalypse or extreme capitalism that favors whoever owns supercomputers. Future will be just plain boring. we will be to ai like dogs are to us. do we treat them bad ? no. but are they our equal ? we will be welcome just inferior in every way. It sounds good if you think about it: peace, everything at your fingertips, full life. but it doesn't feel right i cant explain why. Dog is happy when you throw treats at him and he is eating from the floor, its brain is flooding with dopamine, it swings its tail but it sucks to be in that position...
Personally, I have the feeling that while some of what you wrote could plausibly happen, those of us artists and those who come after us who persevere will be considered THAT MUCH GREATER...

...that much greater for putting forth genuine brainpower and ingenuity and hand-eye coordination. People might end up looking and listening to our creations and thinking, "but how is that possible? S/he's not even a machine?... just a mere human, like me and still creates great sound? How is that even possible?

And then they will log into skynet://idmforums.net to find out how it was (and is, and will be) possible

I assure, you, my friend, the whole future is not dystopian, as long as we support peace/science/education/freedom/and the arts.

A bigger threat is probably the potential dark age that might ensue if the USA gets knocked off the electrical grid by a dirty bomb.

I read some formal documents about that a couple of years ago and I GOT SCARED. I couldn't sleep for about 3 weeks. Edward Snowden wrote a bit about that too.

The US will take a HARD FALL unless and until the utilities and grid are taken off of the internet and the USA stops research into aggressive offensive hacking. Stuxnet was kinda cool, but aside from all that, just as Snowden wrote, the USA needs to focus a lot more on core stability and resilience and maybe some normal everyday defense instead of ticking people off around the world. I think he was right.

And the Russians didn't hack the elections, Republicans played a very faulty Electoral College system and the Democrats hadn't put forth the best of their best, and the third party candidates were heavily discriminated against despite having some of the most progressive platforms ever known to US history.

I mean, if you want to get scared, read https://wagingpeace.org
That's what we have to worry about (accidental Nuclear Holocaust), not really much from AI.

Last edited by Daggit; 30-10-2017 at 07:00 PM.. Reason: fixed a typo

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Old 30-10-2017, 07:02 PM   #15
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Interesting posts in this thread. I think lolirl might have a point that art might be one of the few types of activity that could provide some form of special value even when machines can do everything better. I would worry at least as much about any other form of manual and nonmanual work in the long run.
We might experience some kind of Dune-type Butlerian jihad in the future, though, who knows. Sometimes, I also fear that ideas of the kind that advanced civilizations exterminate themselves sooner or later with a high probability after reaching some form of technological threshold might have some merit...

[edit]
Quote:
"The target of the Jihad was a machine-attitude as much as the machines," Leto said. "Humans had set those machines to usurp our sense of beauty, our necessary selfdom out of which we make living judgments. Naturally, the machines were destroyed."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad

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Old 30-10-2017, 09:48 PM   #16
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Champagne doesn't get better with age.

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Old 30-10-2017, 10:17 PM   #17
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

^ If The Singularity was The Deathstar, you'd be Luke.
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Old 30-10-2017, 10:45 PM   #18
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

btw that story about stimulating Singularity's clitoris was pure art

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Old 30-10-2017, 11:03 PM   #19
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by D42K732202 View Post
For example this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PczDLl92vlc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLR-_c_uCwI

this is scaring me because i graduate to music degree and i just don't want to be useless mook. this AI music may not be as good as Batch (as for now), but thats not how real world works, billiards of people just don't care and want something to listen on their iProduct.
Nah this is old news, man. Actually, David Cope made his AI compose music that was mistaken for actual Bach by experts. But that can't possibly be what makes you feel useless, right now in 2017. To be honest, any music graduate could possibly compose "in the manner of" any great composer that has been as studied and dissected as Bach. His Emily Howell is a step further, but it's still algorithms. AI here is only as good as you allow it to be with the input you provide.

I don't mean that it won't evolve much further than that, but you should still consider all this with a bit more critical thinking.

check this out though:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...all-on-its-own

Now, that's interesting. My two cents on the issue of AI and art, though, is that AI (so far) has to have a clear idea of good & bad in order to make decisions and refine its program. But art to me is based on a large part on mistakes, subjective values, and differing ideas of aesthetics or self-expression.

Anyway you know what? If AI gets as developed as what you imagine, then humans will be obsolete and mankind will be replaced by robotkind and it's only the next step in the evolution of the species. Maybe droids will actually be better than us at living on this planet.

Let them droids get depressed instead of us when they develop paradoxical thinking.

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Old 30-10-2017, 11:20 PM   #20
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Re: Inevitable extinction of musicians and artists in general

Singularities are for the rich. Everyone else gets rising shorelines, food scarcity and massive energy shortages. What a time to be alive, eh?

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