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Old 22-02-2018, 08:13 PM   #21
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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In the words of old Yoda: "Do or do not..there is no try!"
Amen

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Old 22-02-2018, 10:47 PM   #22
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Run a few filters on the amen though. The lord's a little crispy today

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Old 22-02-2018, 11:06 PM   #23
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Sorry if my advice is simple. Cowboy the fuck up and put it in the damn drawer for a week. Just do it. I always have another idea for a song or of I dont I do something musically productive to not waste the energy. Its a matter of will power. Not tricks or hacks or woo woo spiritual bullshit.

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Old 22-02-2018, 11:45 PM   #24
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Sorry if my advice is simple. Cowboy the fuck up and put it in the damn drawer for a week. Just do it. I always have another idea for a song or of I dont I do something musically productive to not waste the energy. Its a matter of will power. Not tricks or hacks or woo woo spiritual bullshit.
Given in to the dark side, you have..stronger you have become..mix like a badass, you do.

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Old 23-02-2018, 01:47 AM   #25
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Given in to the dark side, you have..stronger you have become..mix like a badass, you do.

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Old 23-02-2018, 04:25 AM   #26
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Sorry if my advice is simple. Cowboy the fuck up and put it in the damn drawer for a week. Just do it. I always have another idea for a song or of I dont I do something musically productive to not waste the energy. Its a matter of will power. Not tricks or hacks or woo woo spiritual bullshit.
Have to agree with this. Put it down, start something else, and come back to it with fresh ears and no expectations.

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Old 23-02-2018, 04:46 PM   #27
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I hate to always bring up my graduate studies because I think I sound like a bragging prick, but in my MFA program all the instructors who said things like “Stop fucking whinning and just write” or “This is shit, why did you even bring this to my workshop?” were the ones I asked to be on my thesis committee.

The ones that wanted to prattle off little tricks and “secrets” were full of shit and spent most of their time trying to look the part and be a part of the “scene”.

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Old 23-02-2018, 05:45 PM   #28
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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I hate to always bring up my graduate studies because I think I sound like a bragging prick, but in my MFA program all the instructors who said things like “Stop fucking whinning and just write” or “This is shit, why did you even bring this to my workshop?” were the ones I asked to be on my thesis committee.

The ones that wanted to prattle off little tricks and “secrets” were full of shit and spent most of their time trying to look the part and be a part of the “scene”.
If that's what works for you, then that's fine, but "tough love" doesn't work for everyone.

I read recently, - that when Stock, Aitken and Waterman first met Rick Astley, he was bordering on being a nervous wreck. He had a great voice (they'd heard him sing at a bar), but he was easily spooked. So instead of just telling him to "stop whining and sing" (which he'd most likely just have refused to do), they created a job for him as an assistant at the studio (even though they didn't really need one), hoping that by just hanging around he'd eventually relax enough to find the courage to record in the studio.

As a teacher you're probably aware of this already, - but I think it's worth remembering that what works for you, might just cause someone else to give up and run away. Which isn't what you want. And that the teachers with the "tricks", might be just right for someone else.
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Old 23-02-2018, 06:06 PM   #29
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I was going to write something about creative and non-creative personalities from Jordan Peterson's point of view, but was getting afraid that Relic will disconnect me from the Internet...
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Old 23-02-2018, 06:32 PM   #30
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Originally Posted by Iyashi Sound View Post
If that's what works for you, then that's fine, but "tough love" doesn't work for everyone.

I read recently, - that when Stock, Aitken and Waterman first met Rick Astley, he was bordering on being a nervous wreck. He had a great voice (they'd heard him sing at a bar), but he was easily spooked. So instead of just telling him to "stop whining and sing" (which he'd most likely just have refused to do), they created a job for him as an assistant at the studio (even though they didn't really need one), hoping that by just hanging around he'd eventually relax enough to find the courage to record in the studio.

As a teacher you're probably aware of this already, - but I think it's worth remembering that what works for you, might just cause someone else to give up and run away. Which isn't what you want. And that the teachers with the "tricks", might be just right for someone else.
Oh. I abosolutely agree 99%. I have to handle a lot of students with kid gloves for sure. But there is always a point at which unless you simply will something to happen, it isn’t going to happen. I reguglarly have students who I give every piece of advice/technique I’ve learned over my career from all kinds of people and yet they sit and stare at the blinking cursor and “refuse” to write word one.

Probably my greatest failing as a teacher is I honestly don’t know what to do with those students who are so frozen with fear/doubt/whatever they can’t put their thoughts to the page. Most students learn how to get through this point in their process.

I will fully admit here that the few that don’t either refuse to think critically in the way academics want them to, that type of thinking, or can’t (and should probably go to vocational school, no shame intended).

A bit back on track for the OP...

As for other people’s opinions, there isn’t much you can do there. As for disliking your own maerial later on, that is a blessing and a curse. I like to listen to some of my older stuff that I don’t like any more every so often. It doesn’t make me think “My god, what garbage!” It makes me thinkg, “My gods, I’ve gotten so much better.”

Knowing sooner when a song (or a piece of writing) is worth working on is kind of a sinxth sense you develop by writing a lot of shitty tracks and trying to beat them into submission (or at least that is how I learned).

Usually if I can’t get a “hook” and an arrangement down in a session or two, I’ll probably abandon the track. I’ve had plenty of tracks I fought with for months and months and that changed a whole lot along the way, but it was in the first 3-5 hours of work I knew it was worth taking to the end. I don’t like getting feedback too early anymore either. I rarely send out “partial drafts” or a 64 bar phrase to anyone and ask their opinion.

Last edited by relic; 23-02-2018 at 06:57 PM..

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Old 25-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #31
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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Damn when taking parallels between relationships and music, this shit gets complicated as fuck ... Maybe I should start doing gay music, because gay relationships don't seem too complicated... Gays are happy.
I think those parallels are quite true! But the important premises of having a good relationship with your music/partner is not being fucked-up ;P (both sides)/ (says the person who is in the happy relationship for 8 years and with music for 4 months).
If someone is a narcissist there will be always an element of self-centeredness and lack of criticism for your own music.
I am trying to listen to music only to catch mistakes. If I am listening to it for pleasure - it is wrong as I consider it as creating some kind of attachment and it can influence badly my development.
The attachment to your own music is natural as if you publish it - you think it's good and your brain releases endorphins. The more you know the track, the bigger anticipation for the peak (eg, drop) and the release of endorphins is bigger.
And the relationship example is brilliant!
Overexposure causes that your appreciation decreases. It is too familiar. So if you fall in love in summer with a girl because she had nice boobs or the catchy house banger - after one month you will be bored.
With the complex track - you can enjoy it longer. You can discover new things with every listening. And get satisfaction from the challenges it poses.
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Old 26-02-2018, 03:49 PM   #32
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Been there, OP, was feeling I'll never reach "that" level I want. I quit posting music on the web, worked silently for 3 years and I feel like I'm progressing. There's something I'll be putting out this spring and I can surely say it's the best I ever did. I want to listen to it frequently so it has to be good. An hour of work more and I'll blast that LP driving through the city with my sunglassess on. Ya jelly?

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Old 26-02-2018, 05:01 PM   #33
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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An hour of work more and I'll blast that LP driving through the city with my sunglassess on. Ya jelly?
Shit, ofcourse I'm jelly Why did you decide not to post anything online for 3 years ?
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Old 26-03-2018, 11:05 AM   #34
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

A lot of people think of a project in a rather linear and uninteractive fashion: so here I have an idea, here's the gear I have and now I'm gonna basically try to imitate the idea I have in my head to the best of my abilities! It'll be awesome because I'm awesome and so are my ideas. Question: how can that ever end up being not a disappointment? Have you ever lived up to your ideals? And if you did, was it all you hoped for?

In my time in art college that kind of thinking was the first thing they knocked out of you. I guess you can boil it down to:
Be practical. Don't focus on that fantastic idea that you might just be able to create one day. Focus on practical ideas that you can do in the here and now and that are able to communicate something to an audience. Because that's what it is you're supposed to be doing with it in the end, right? Art without an audience is creative masturbation (all jerk, no climax).

And forming ideas is essentially communicating with yourself. It's an interaction. Ideas generate new ideas and there's no such thing as divine inspiration that'll magically float in through an open window if you just wait around. It's a skill you can train, mostly by just doing it even if you're generating shitty ideas, that's still better than staring at an empty screen/page and feeling like shit because you're not living up to your own lofty expectations of 'makin THAT UTIMATE track'.
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Old 26-03-2018, 02:03 PM   #35
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Yes, inspiration and/or creativity comes from unpredictable sources, so you never ever just sit and start doing things as if there was an on/off people. Its also why creative people have higher probability of cheating, and also theyare higher in openness, taking them to activities and people that subconciously have higher probability of triggering their creative workflow. Its subconcious,its not like they decide to be like this.

But, you can never learn creativity. You can learn the knobs at best, but it takes a huge characteristic ability to actually create something.
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Old 27-03-2018, 03:55 PM   #36
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

I feel like the same enthusiasm I had when I first started making music is the same enthusiasm that gets me in trouble during a project now. Like asking for feedback, as mentioned above, especially when whatever it is is still a loop or single section.

I don't think everyone here is making a career out of doing this though, it's literally an outlet for creativity for me. If you're just going through the paces, beyond ability, you might as well treat x project as a some stepping stone to the next.

I guess that can relate to what relic was saying. As to writing papers. I always liked writing about stuff that I could pick the topic. But other than that, I don't like doing it as a whole. I would be one of your students where I'm simply trying to get through the class. I don't think anything I have to say is terribly interesting but I can do stuff inside the "paper" that I find a lot of joy from. But again, if you're just doing it to do it, then maybe that person needs a different goal to achieve while doing so. Not the actual grade itself?

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Old 12-04-2018, 08:32 PM   #37
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

It is so nice to see this post even though it essentially has been answered (as best as possible at least). This issue of thinking my stuff is so good plagues me. Maybe I need more feedback from people but it seems like nobody understands anyway when I show them so I avoid that usually. I think my brain likes making music for myself and gets a high when I am cast into the moment, time fades away and night time strolls around. People want to hang out with me or need something of me and I do not want to leave. Then they wonder what I have been working on and it probably sounds like shit to them and is so hard to explain why I do it. There is a natural dopamine drip of some kind when I'm in the flow. Or something like that.

I think there is no real solution to this other than balancing it with more feedback / reference tracks and trying to add a little bit of element writing music for others to enjoy also. But feedback has its place outside of this Flow state. Imagining something is awesome to me is huge inspiration while making something. Once I start thinking about what others might think that seems to kill my Flow. I let the song tell me what to do and pull me. Having a conversation with it till I hit the stump. That is what this flow state is all about to me. If anything making this flow state more efficient more pleasurable to ME is all it should be about. I need to separate this process from feedback, revision, and sound design.

Shit music is probably something that I will have to power through. But like others have said maybe there will never be satisfaction from the results even if it is amazing. As I get better I also get more picky and face the same level of doubt and fake thoughts about what people might think. People probably are not as curious as I like to think... Ultimately I think we have to give the middle finger to those thoughts and just have fun.
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Old 19-04-2018, 11:42 AM   #38
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

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fake thoughts about what people might think
You highlighted the main issue yourself. It's a confidence problem: you're afraid that what you have to add creatively doesn't matter, which is something nobody can judge for themselves anyway. All you can do is try to get it across as best you can.

It's good to be SELF-critical of your work, but as far as what other people think:
You can't keep everybody happy. The moment you make an obvious choice for A, people are gonna criticise it for not being B. As long as you're happy with that choice and have some concept of why you made it, screw them.
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Old 19-04-2018, 01:37 PM   #39
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Re: Psychological effect when listening to your own tracks

Use this trick: Once a track is done don't listen to it to for a long time like a month or two, more if you can, the more time the best. You will have a completely different view, if enough time have passed it feels you are listening to someone else music, you may even feel like "Was it really me that produced it? Weird.".

General rule, after doing that if it does not sound as good as your influences in terms of composition or production or both it is because it is really a bad track that may need rework or may need to be simply deleted.

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