Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03-20-2015, 03:35 PM   #1
-Agu-
Microknight
-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of
-Agu-'s Avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 116
MC Status: 1310
Thanks: 12
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Hey guys,

I'm on Logic Pro X and have this weird problem where everytime I get CPU overload, volume jumps straight through the roof. I'm not talking about any small difference, it's like suddenly adding 30db boost to master channel, making it dangerous to your hearing. I've read some other people have this same problem, but I haven't found any real solution to it. Does anyone have any fix to this issue?

Advertisements

-Agu- is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2015, 03:41 PM   #2
Evelon
IDMf ArtistModerator
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,565
MC Status: 214387348
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,778 Times in 1,736 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

So you are mixing with 30dB headroom on the master?

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Evelon
Kvlt O))) (03-20-2015)
Old 03-20-2015, 07:48 PM   #3
Nyul
Nyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MCNyul is a savage MC
Nyul's Avatar
Posts: 1,347
MC Status: 24960
Thanks: 478
Thanked 499 Times in 355 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Have you considered asking the people that made Logic? (tech support)

Would a limiter on the master bus help?

------------------
Nyul is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2015, 09:26 PM   #4
-Agu-
Microknight
-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of
-Agu-'s Avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 116
MC Status: 1310
Thanks: 12
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
So you are mixing with 30dB headroom on the master?
No, but then again, it wouldn't matter if I were, fader isn't moving anywhere, volume just jumps. For example, If there's 6db headroom on master (so master is at peaking at -6db), meter just jumps to somewhere over +20db or something for a few seconds, then song pauses and CPU-overload-message pops up. If master is peaking at -40db, it just jumps to -10 or -20db when overload happens.

Quote:
Would a limiter on the master bus help?
It does help a little bit, but thing still gives you a heart attack. Imagine sticking limiter to master, then pressing play, and accidentally cranking pre-gain to +30db. Whole track changes into ultra squashed dirty square wave-y noise sitting at steady 0db and as you can imagine, it's still damn loud.

Quote:
Have you considered asking the people that made Logic? (tech support)
That's probably the way to go then, gonna do more googling too but this far I haven't found anything.
-Agu- is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2015, 11:33 AM   #5
Evelon
IDMf ArtistModerator
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,565
MC Status: 214387348
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,778 Times in 1,736 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
No, but then again, it wouldn't matter if I were, fader isn't moving anywhere, volume just jumps. For example, If there's 6db headroom on master (so master is at peaking at -6db), meter just jumps to somewhere over +20db or something for a few seconds, then song pauses and CPU-overload-message pops up. If master is peaking at -40db, it just jumps to -10 or -20db when overload happens.
+20dBFS isn't possible.
Mix with 6dB (or less) of headroom, with a limiter on the master set to -0.3dB. That will surely solve your problems.
I used to get noiseburst from hell in the early days with Buzz (when it was still a bit buggy). I learned to mix with reasonable headroom and with a limiter on the master, so when the bursts came I didn't shit my pants.

To me it sounds like you have a software problem and/or audio interface problem. Contact Apple to see if they know more about this issue.

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2015, 07:38 PM   #6
-Agu-
Microknight
-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of-Agu- has much to be proud of
-Agu-'s Avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 116
MC Status: 1310
Thanks: 12
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
+20dBFS isn't possible.
Why it wouldn't be possible in digital environment? OFC if you bounce the track, it will clip badly, but inside your DAW it's just louder nothing else. And yeah, as I said, limiter helps a bit, but it's kinda bad still. Maybe with 1db headroom and some specific limiter that just squashes the sound but doesn't soft clip it. Using Adaptive limiter (stock plugin) in Logic and having reasonable headroom (usually 3-10dB) hasn't really saved me this far unless I've been listening on really low (set from my laptop, not Logic).
-Agu- is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 06:25 AM   #7
vashima
vashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MCvashima is a savage MC
vashima's Avatar
Pocatello, Idaho
Age: 28
Posts: 677
MC Status: 13410
Thanks: 1,111
Thanked 268 Times in 206 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Yea man, I would hit up the developers for logic as well. I have had a similar issue in Pro Tools. Every once in awhile half my tracks will drop out and when they come back in it would spike my system by about 12db. Def annoying to my ears and scared me for the health of my monitors. Hopefully you can get it sorted out. Good luck!
vashima is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 07:57 AM   #8
Hygro
Microknight
Hygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud of
Hygro's Avatar
California. No doubt about it.
Posts: 103
MC Status: 1160
Thanks: 28
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

I get this on select tracks. Gotta toss a limiter on there. Getting startled sucks but the +30dB hearing damage is worse.
Hygro is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 09:34 AM   #9
Jaded
Total mad cunt
Jaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MC
Jaded's Avatar
Posts: 4,175
MC Status: 6894459
Thanks: 4,352
Thanked 3,305 Times in 2,007 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
Why it wouldn't be possible in digital environment? OFC if you bounce the track, it will clip badly, but inside your DAW it's just louder nothing else. And yeah, as I said, limiter helps a bit, but it's kinda bad still. Maybe with 1db headroom and some specific limiter that just squashes the sound but doesn't soft clip it. Using Adaptive limiter (stock plugin) in Logic and having reasonable headroom (usually 3-10dB) hasn't really saved me this far unless I've been listening on really low (set from my laptop, not Logic).
Because it's physically impossible. Full Scale is measured from -infinity to zero. Logic gives 6dB of "headroom" at the output. This does not equal +6dB Full Scale. What it means is that when your mix output exceeds 0dB FS your sound card will not shit itself and destroy your speakers (and possibly melt your brain). Instead what happens is any signal over 0dB FS is clipped - hence why it sounds shit when you're rocking 6dB on the master.

This is why Ev's suggestion of setting a hard limit at 0.3dB and then giving yourself a very large amount of headroom is the way to go. Firstly, giving yourself enough headroom lowers the risk of hitting zero. And secondly, setting a hard limit at -0.3dB ensures that anything that would have hit zero gets squashed.

And thirdly, the hard limit is going to give you a lot more clues as to where you're going wrong in your gain structure; as opposed to a red blinking meter with a meaningless number on it. It means that if your mix is hitting zero, you can see how far it exceeds the limit by looking at the amount of gain reduction being applied.

This allows you to quickly lower the amplitude of your mix groups to make sure that you're always working within the digital domain's safe operating levels.

------------------
For reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by God*

satan = f i d
my master, my god, my lord and savior = f i d d y
my boner = f i d e l i u m

* I am not God.
Jaded is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 10:36 AM   #10
Hygro
Microknight
Hygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud of
Hygro's Avatar
California. No doubt about it.
Posts: 103
MC Status: 1160
Thanks: 28
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

This is no longer quite as true in logic X but I remember in Logic 9 if you went to 0 it was 0, and if you hit +12 it sounded like a clean +12. I get that it's tautologically impossible for it to be higher than maximum aka 0 on a full scale measurement but logic's "0" is "0" on a wav and it can still play way above its 0 without being hard limited.

That's the nature of the software.
Hygro is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 11:04 AM   #11
Jaded
Total mad cunt
Jaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MC
Jaded's Avatar
Posts: 4,175
MC Status: 6894459
Thanks: 4,352
Thanked 3,305 Times in 2,007 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
This is no longer quite as true in logic X but I remember in Logic 9 if you went to 0 it was 0, and if you hit +12 it sounded like a clean +12. I get that it's tautologically impossible for it to be higher than maximum aka 0 on a full scale measurement but logic's "0" is "0" on a wav and it can still play way above its 0 without being hard limited.

That's the nature of the software.
Lol... okay buddy.

I think you're getting your floating points confused with your integers...

Ultimately, you're free to do what you want in the box. But if you want to hope to share your music with anyone who isn't a Logic / [insert your exact DAW and software configuration here] you'll need to observe 0dB...

Why? Because you can't go above 0dB FS!

It's kind of like when you're driving through your local neighbourhood on your way home and you hit a red light on an empty street. Sure, you could run the red light. Chances are nobody will notice. So you run the red light and nothing happens. Now, whenever you're driving down that road on your way home, if you hit the red, you run it.

Then one day you have to travel for work and you're driving down the main road on your way home and you hit a red and you run it. Then the cop parked behind the billboard pulls you over to write you a ticket and - if you're a black person in America - probably shoot you dead because black people smell like weed apparently.

That's kind of what you're doing to your music when you don't observe 0dB. You're not even giving your choons a chance to put their hands on the wheel and reach for the license... That's just cold man...

------------------
For reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by God*

satan = f i d
my master, my god, my lord and savior = f i d d y
my boner = f i d e l i u m

* I am not God.
Jaded is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 11:22 AM   #12
Nystagmus
Savage Mad Cunt
Nystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MC
Nystagmus's Avatar
Planet Earth; 2017 AD.
Posts: 3,806
MC Status: 65310
Thanks: 3,367
Thanked 1,306 Times in 985 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Maybe you accidentally set up a feedback loop and that's what causes the CPU overload as well as the volume jump?

------------------
Mutually-Assured Survival is preferred.

Be a false negative of yourself !
Nystagmus is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #13
Nystagmus
Savage Mad Cunt
Nystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MC
Nystagmus's Avatar
Planet Earth; 2017 AD.
Posts: 3,806
MC Status: 65310
Thanks: 3,367
Thanked 1,306 Times in 985 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

This is a different issue, and I don't use Logic. But i think most DAWs have some headroom above the 0 dBvu of the master metering. I think this is the case if the engine is at least 32-bit float. But if you render to 24-bit or less,t it will clip off anything above 0 dBfs / 0 dBvu. And if you render to 32-bit float it will look like it's clipping until you normalise it down to 0 dBfs or less using a standalone 32-bit float capable editor. And of course a 16-bit render would clip on render.

As far as the soundcard goes, I think whether or not it clips depends upon the soundcard and it's drivers. But I'm not entirely sure about that. But I do remember having an M-Audio 24-bit soundcard and I could mix various audio sources on it and it wouldn't clip. But I can't demo that right now because I don't own it anymore. And believe it or not, my current soundcard (Alesis M1Active 320 USB) is only 16-bit!

Anyways, I'm not trying to flame or anything... just adding info as I remember it. I do remember for sure that Reaper automatically mutes any channel, master or not, which hits +18 dBvu / +18 dBfs.

------------------
Mutually-Assured Survival is preferred.

Be a false negative of yourself !
Nystagmus is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Nystagmus
Jaded (10-24-2015)
Old 10-24-2015, 01:07 PM   #14
Hygro
Microknight
Hygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud of
Hygro's Avatar
California. No doubt about it.
Posts: 103
MC Status: 1160
Thanks: 28
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
Lol... okay buddy.

I think you're getting your floating points confused with your integers...

Ultimately, you're free to do what you want in the box. But if you want to hope to share your music with anyone who isn't a Logic / [insert your exact DAW and software configuration here] you'll need to observe 0dB...

Why? Because you can't go above 0dB FS!

It's kind of like when you're driving through your local neighbourhood on your way home and you hit a red light on an empty street. Sure, you could run the red light. Chances are nobody will notice. So you run the red light and nothing happens. Now, whenever you're driving down that road on your way home, if you hit the red, you run it.

Then one day you have to travel for work and you're driving down the main road on your way home and you hit a red and you run it. Then the cop parked behind the billboard pulls you over to write you a ticket and - if you're a black person in America - probably shoot you dead because black people smell like weed apparently.

That's kind of what you're doing to your music when you don't observe 0dB. You're not even giving your choons a chance to put their hands on the wheel and reach for the license... That's just cold man...
Evelon was either telling Agu that Agu couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike or making an irrelevant side comment that confused Agu into thinking that into thinking he was being told he couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike.

The point of this thread is that for some reason Agu experiences huge gain spikes out of nowhere that are +20dB on the master fader. As a logic user, I've had the exact same thing happen. It doesn't matter if there's nothing above 0dBFS, because this thread isn't about a final exported wav file, it's about Agu's experience in the DAW. I hope that clears it up.
Hygro is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Hygro
FunkMasterBrown (11-17-2015)
Old 10-24-2015, 04:11 PM   #15
Jaded
Total mad cunt
Jaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MCJaded is a savage MC
Jaded's Avatar
Posts: 4,175
MC Status: 6894459
Thanks: 4,352
Thanked 3,305 Times in 2,007 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
Evelon was either telling Agu that Agu couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike or making an irrelevant side comment that confused Agu into thinking that into thinking he was being told he couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike.
Never mind dude. You don't get it.

Because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's irrelevant. (Ev's post was more relevant than anything else that's been said).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
The point of this thread is that for some reason Agu experiences huge gain spikes out of nowhere that are +20dB on the master fader. As a logic user, I've had the exact same thing happen. It doesn't matter if there's nothing above 0dBFS, because this thread isn't about a final exported wav file, it's about Agu's experience in the DAW. I hope that clears it up.
Yes, and if y'all follow Evelon's advice, this would never happen to you ever again. But instead we get "but why come it let me go over zero then?" This is essentially the electronic music equivalent of Spinal Tap's amps that go up to eleven...

Anyway... Don't worry about using a limiter... clearly you don't need it...

------------------
For reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by God*

satan = f i d
my master, my god, my lord and savior = f i d d y
my boner = f i d e l i u m

* I am not God.
Jaded is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 04:23 PM   #16
Hygro
Microknight
Hygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud ofHygro has much to be proud of
Hygro's Avatar
California. No doubt about it.
Posts: 103
MC Status: 1160
Thanks: 28
Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Clearly. Clearly I didn't advise a limiter myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
I get this on select tracks. Gotta toss a limiter on there. Getting startled sucks but the +30dB hearing damage is worse.
Evelon says "mix quieter, use a limiter". Good advice. Evelon also says you can't have +20dBFS which confused the topic. Yes, there's no reason to mix above zero since you will have to bring it down later, and a limiter stop the feedbacking problem from exploding your eardrums. win-win. Doesn't change that you can have your DAW read over 0, which is what Agu was experience and trying to get help for. Indeed, he wanted a way to fix it that didn't involve a limiter, so in that sense, he was one step ahead to begin with.

Does this make sense now?
Hygro is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2015, 08:26 PM   #17
Evelon
IDMf ArtistModerator
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,565
MC Status: 214387348
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,778 Times in 1,736 Posts
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

I lolled.

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2015, 01:38 AM   #18
JohnnyRocket
Regular Freak
JohnnyRocket will become famous soon enough
San Francisco
Posts: 16
MC Status: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Thanks for the post about Logic, I'm about to dive into that program soon. Any tip helps

Advertisements

JohnnyRocket is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to make builds and sweeps in Logic? Chief Green Sound Design, Mixing, & Studio Techniques 10 07-02-2015 02:33 AM
How to make Massive velocity sensitive in Logic? Rasmus Dupont Sound Design, Mixing, & Studio Techniques 1 08-14-2012 09:01 PM
Opinion: Blind or deaf? Xenon The Side Room 29 03-23-2012 12:06 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:30 AM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.