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Old 25-02-2015, 11:53 AM   #21
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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Originally Posted by Lug View Post
and also the basis for the key b flat major, isn't it?
and b flat whole tone scale
and b flat harmonic major scale
and b flat diminished scale

or maybe the universe is playing in G minor and that black hole is only playing the minor third
Yeah, man, I uh, I know how music works. That's not the point. The point is that I liked b-flat minor already and this makes it cooler, basically, frankly, essentially. I think it's cool.

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Old 25-02-2015, 11:56 AM   #22
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Old 25-02-2015, 11:58 AM   #23
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

I always imagined that a black hole would "sound" like a phaser too. With all the stuff swirling around and turning in on its self. I know that's crazy. I have a vivid imagination.

But seriously. A sound wave freq of 10mil years! That kind of sounds isolated.

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Old 25-02-2015, 12:06 PM   #24
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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Originally Posted by RikkiSho View Post
I always imagined that a black hole would "sound" like a phaser too. With all the stuff swirling around and turning in on its self. I know that's crazy. I have a vivid imagination.
Imagination is the lifeblood of this thread.

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Old 25-02-2015, 01:07 PM   #25
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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The point is that I liked b-flat minor already and this makes it cooler, basically, frankly, essentially. I think it's cool.
oh ok. I'm sorry if I jumped down your throat, it's just that we get a lot of threads about cosmic new agey 432hz bs and other "minor is sad major is happy" shallow concepts. I didn't read through your message that it was just a "how cool is that" thread

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Old 25-02-2015, 01:43 PM   #26
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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So, as we know...
you lost me right here

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Old 25-02-2015, 01:55 PM   #27
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

I think you're smoking too much. There's no relationship between black holes and music. As for the tone and character of a particular key, there's some truth to it, but it's largely subjective. It's possible to write uplifting or happy music on a minor scale and vice versa.

But the emotional connotations attached to different musical keys are a product of psychology rather than physics. You play a Bb minor composition to a tribe of people in Africa who have never heard western music, they're not going to ascribe the same themes and emotions to someone who has been conditioned to this music. Much like white people often don't understand the musicality of eastern musical scales.

As for whether or not certain frequencies have an effect on human physiology, well this is absolutely true. That's why music is such an important component to rehabilitation and similar therapies. But there is no universal effect at work. The effect is experiential. That is, connected to the individual's perception. So a certain musical key might relieve a certain person's neck tension, thus relieving their headache, but the same music may have a completely different effect on another person.

It's a bit sad that modern science has been so dismissive of this aspect of sound and other phenomena like electromagnetism. Faraday and Tesla were about the only two people to have explored this area of the physical sciences since the ancient civilisations.
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Old 25-02-2015, 02:02 PM   #28
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

I assumed that's what this thread WAS about.

The black hole looked at this dude and laughed:


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Old 25-02-2015, 02:04 PM   #29
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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The Perseus black hole's sound waves have a frequency of 10 million years!
deep
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Old 25-02-2015, 02:05 PM   #30
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

The black hole takes a long drag of its cigarette, adjusts its fedora, and poops in the cone of your subwoofer.

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Old 25-02-2015, 02:24 PM   #31
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

From a Jaded post in another thread:

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If I was writing something for trumpet, well I'd want to have a lot of Bb...

This is basically where the keys having different characteristics comes from. Along with wind instruments and horns, many physical instruments have limitations and they dictate what key the music is in. Say you want the lowest open string on a contrabass, you'd have a key where that pitch was definitely in the diatonic scale, and most likely tonic, dominant or subdominant. If you were relying on the double bassoon or tuba you'd have a different key. Etc, etc, etc. And the keys become associated with many of these, the distinct growl of bowed string in the low register, or a trumpet playing with virtuosity, et al, and not the actual key itself.

But I guess it's more poetic to say "such and such key elicits the calming yet invigorating feeling of a light summer breeze on your cock and ballsack" and not something like "trumpets r cool so i like the key where it lets the trumpet guy play lots of fast notes and junk."

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Old 25-02-2015, 02:53 PM   #32
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

if you want a black hole to play in your orchestra, you better compose in Bb

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Old 25-02-2015, 02:56 PM   #33
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

^ Yeah, and there's nothing stopping you from designing these instruments to cover other keys. It's just that after so many years they have become standardised. Think of the response elicited by a marching band. Those instruments only play together in a set group of keys. So naturally, someone who is familiar with marching music would associate those keys with those responses.

Much of the quality of music is down to the technical constraints. Kind of similar is the roaring twenties. We all associate that era of music with horns. This isn't because horns were the dominant musical instruments of the day. But, due to the technical constraints of early recording media. They were the only instruments that could be played loud enough to exceed the noise floor of the medium. As phonographs and wax cylinders became a popular social way of listening to music together, naturally listeners were in turn influenced and thus were more likely to play horn music.

Post WW-II you see an explosion in recordings of string symphonies, as the new recording medium, magnetic tape, was capable of capturing a much larger dynamic range. In regard to popular music, you also start hearing more complex recordings coming about due to multi-track recording around the end of the fifties. Using the ping-pong technique (aka bouncing) it became possible to record layer upon layer of sound by filling three tracks and bouncing to the fourth. This is why you hear a lot more complex vocal harmonies with the advent of the sixties. o

With the marriage of tape and electric amplification, you hear a further shift in popular music. From loud and fast paced to soft and slow. That's why you hear more crooners like Elvis or Roy Orbison rising in popularity from the 50's onwards. Before then, they literally couldn't have been heard using the existing technology.

Similarly, this is why a lot of electronic music is in A minor. It has nothing to this key's suitability for electronic music and everything to do with the fact that electronic music is predominantly written using a piano keyboard by people who have zero musical training. Additionally, the bias of traditional musical instruments towards diatonics is the reason that the vast majority of folk and popular music in the last 150 years adheres to this scale.
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Old 25-02-2015, 05:10 PM   #34
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

Dissonance and atonality are darker than any diatonic mode or key imo.

As an aside, have you looked into forbidden keys and chords from Christianity? The devil's triad and such, augmented fourth, etc?
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Old 25-02-2015, 11:16 PM   #35
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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Dissonance and atonality are darker than any diatonic mode or key imo.
I'm not saying one musical property is a bigger contributor to darkness than another. You're right on to say that dissonance and atonality are important. In fact those principles can carry a major key track into darkness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded
But the emotional connotations attached to different musical keys are a product of psychology rather than physics. You play a Bb minor composition to a tribe of people in Africa who have never heard western music, they're not going to ascribe the same themes and emotions to someone who has been conditioned to this music. Much like white people often don't understand the musicality of eastern musical scales.
Jaded is right on here. Musical keys aren't going to affect everyone the same. But that's true for everything. If there is some planet where dissonance is the most familiar composition style, then most of our popular music would might creep those aliens out. Unfamiliarity is the one of the primary concepts of dark ambiance.

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are saying is true.

You can just google that shit. I'm not proposing that there is a scientific formula that proves b-flat minor is creepy. It's all to do with cultural evolution. For a long time certain keys have been associated with certain feelings. So sad songs get played over and over in minor keys, and bam, minor keys become sad for us. Basically, I'm sure Jaded would be happy to elaborate/correct me on that. Association is another important part of musical perception. Generally lower tones are more dramtic or more sombre or whatever. That might be partly because more intimidating people and creatures make lower sounds. Some of the psychology is cultural and some of it more primal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomSignal
As an aside, have you looked into forbidden keys and chords from Christianity? The devil's triad and such, augmented fourth, etc?
I hadn't looked into this. Thank you so much for mentioning it. Even if there is no technical scientific connection between black holes and the psychology that makes something "dark", the connections are there. I find this sort of stuff inspiring. So sue me if I like to be inspired. Maybe I'm just a hippie or something.

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Old 25-02-2015, 11:29 PM   #36
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

you can be inspired by any bullshit you want, just don't go around pretending it's some kind of cosmic truth

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Old 25-02-2015, 11:31 PM   #37
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

omg so sad


omgggggg the sadness


excuse me, I'm being inspired by the stupid assumption that minor key = sad

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Old 25-02-2015, 11:39 PM   #38
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

I'll submit this for review as it is pertinent IMO.

First, I should say that this was intended to be a backing track and as such, is super sparse and undeveloped. It should be further noted that there are only really 5 instruments here. Bass, drums, guitar, a synth, and human voice.

Second, I wanted to share it because it does something interesting (IMO) key and mood wise.

The first 3 minutes are really all strictly diatonic and tending toward a Major sound, creating a sort of happy-ish, mellow vibe.

Then, at the three minute mark, it goes all atonal and dissonant with, yes, a guitar solo. But it is completely void of standard diatonic phrasing. The root bass note stays the same but all the stuff over it makes a dramatic shift to the darker side.

This atonality allows me to shift the same groove at the 4:30 mark to where everything shifts up a whole step but goes minor. Everything in the rhythm section stays exactly the same, but a whole step higher and the guitars go to a more syncopated, African pop-inspired thing that is more a minor feel but, less drastically dark than that middle 90 seconds.

So for me, this covered sort of three "feels" that generally relate to major, minor, and non-diatonic/atonal sounds while still essentially staying the same in the rhythm section. I think it demonstrates well how the different modes or lack thereof influence the mood significantly.

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Old 25-02-2015, 11:56 PM   #39
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

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Originally Posted by Lug View Post
omg so sad
omgggggg the sadness
excuse me, I'm being inspired by the stupid assumption that minor key = sad
Honestly, I tend to agree with the connotation of "sadness" where minor scales are concerned. There are, of course, degrees there but...If you transpose that Django thing to major it'd be zipededoodah super radiant utopian sun beams out your asshole happy compared to the minor version.

Much in the same way mixolydian is sort of manic depressive with it's mixed major/minor feel.

But again, it's all in interpretation so, there's nothing saying your perspective in invalid, but, geez, so much sarcasm seems unnecessary to the discussion. Do you want a hug?
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Old 26-02-2015, 12:07 AM   #40
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Re: B-Flat Minor (Dark Ambient Theory)

Pretty kewl facts.

I've heard people also say that f-sharp minor is the 'dark key' as well. Not sure who to believe.

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