Standard volume?
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Sound Design, Mixing, & Studio Techniques Need to know how to make a specific sound? Want to improve your mix? Need advice on micing-up a drum kit? This is the area for you.

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 25-02-2017, 04:18 AM   #1
Kyrpto
Knob Twiddler
Kyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of light
Posts: 221
MC Status: 460
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Standard volume?

I notice that all or almost all professionally mastered tracks are around the same volume. Is there such an industry standard?

Advertisements


------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2017, 04:59 AM   #2
Oatbag
IDMf Artist
Oatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MC
Oatbag's Avatar
Best Coast
Posts: 4,281
MC Status: 105800
Thanks: 1,397
Thanked 2,090 Times in 1,367 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Well the peaks will be at 0 dB but I assume you mean the RMS level. Bob Katz says -10 dB for the loudest parts of the song, but that's probably not what you are going for. Lots of people look at the average level, but that assumes you have nothing going on dynamically. Having quiet bits and loud bits in a song is pleasing. In short - compress and limit the shit out of everything and go for -4 dB RMS, if the waveform doesn't look like a rectangle, compress more and give that hard limiter a workout.
Oatbag is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Oatbag
Muse-ic (10-04-2017)
Old 25-02-2017, 05:03 AM   #3
Artificer
Digital Surfer
Artificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MC
Artificer's Avatar
Southern Hell
Posts: 553
MC Status: 31260
Thanks: 202
Thanked 625 Times in 363 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

As close to 0dB as you can get without ever clipping. In my experience it tends to be between -0.3 and -0.6 in actual practice. That's what you'd be referencing to on a professionally mastered track. If you want to participate in the whole Loudness Wars thing, compress the fuck out of the wave and then master to just under 0dB for artificial loudness and zero dynamics.
Artificer is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2017, 06:18 AM   #4
White Noise
Eternal Echoer
White Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MC
White Noise's Avatar
California
Posts: 809
MC Status: 20260
Thanks: 88
Thanked 405 Times in 289 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

I usually aim for dynamic range, so my stuff is a bit quieter overall than totally pro stuff, but I think it sounds better if you turn it up to compensate. I can't help much with loudness, I just do what seems right on a song by song basis.

When you're pushing all the way up against the limiter, make sure to turn your master output down by .5-1db AFTER the limiter. Use a separate gain plugin if you have to in order to be sure. This is because when you render your stuff out to mp3, it will clip a bit sooner (I don't know why, I just know it does), so you need extra headroom. Even if you don't render out mp3, many sites that you might use to host and stream your stuff for listeners will probably convert it to some variant of mp3 at some point, so I always prepare for that.

------------------
Also, check this out.

White Noise is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to White Noise
envelope3 (17-03-2017)
Old 25-02-2017, 03:55 PM   #5
relic
IDMf SupporterModerator
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 16,966
MC Status: 8533430
Thanks: 10,442
Thanked 6,850 Times in 4,877 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
I usually aim for dynamic range, so my stuff is a bit quieter overall than totally pro stuff, but I think it sounds better if you turn it up to compensate. I can't help much with loudness, I just do what seems right on a song by song basis.
I know the way things get mastered has changed partially because of the devices people listen to music on: mobile device speakers, ear buds, little blue tooth speakers all things with small amps. But I do like the idea of mixing/mastering something to have dynamic range and sound good and then just let the listener control the loudness.
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2017, 12:20 AM   #6
Numerical
IDMf Artist
Numerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MC
Numerical's Avatar
Austin
Age: 39
Posts: 10,755
MC Status: 45941881
Thanks: 6,628
Thanked 5,674 Times in 3,576 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Some protips

Multiband compression in the lo-mids and upper-lows (100-200hz)

hipass your low end (kick, bass, guitars, rhythm synths, dont go by a number, go by the sound.

Mix altogether, no soloing.

"make room" for things like snare/kick by surgical cuts in the other instruments (minus 1-3dB, high bandwidth/q)

Automate volumes and make sure nothing has any frequency buildup, especially bass.

Compress the bass, limit the bass, compress the bass. Staged compression slow attack medium release. No more than -3 dB of gain reduction for each instance of compression.

This will help to do during mixing so that when mastering it sounds smooth and balanced throughout BEFORE the mastering begins.
Numerical is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2017, 11:04 PM   #7
mmarra
Minor Glitch
mmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to behold
mmarra's Avatar
Toronto
Posts: 38
MC Status: 910
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

There is no standard to the final loudness of a song but from what I have seen and worked on alot of people tend to like their tracks to site between 6 & 8 RMS....and for electronic genres sometime even higher RMS because I push the level a bit more with electronic music due to the use of samples in the mixes.

But now with online streaming services starting to adopt loudness normalizing you might start see a loudness standard.
mmarra is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2017, 10:59 PM   #8
Nystagmus
Savage Mad Cunt
Nystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MC
Nystagmus's Avatar
Planet Earth; 2017 AD.
Posts: 3,801
MC Status: 65410
Thanks: 3,367
Thanked 1,308 Times in 987 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

There should be about 8 decibels of upper VU activity which is comparable to what you'll see if you meter a radio broadcast. However more important is the average RMS (root mean square) decibel level. That should be no higher than -13 dBfs for the average of the entire track. Some tracks are higher than that but typically suffer from overcompression and lack of dynamics. Many hit tracks from the 1990s and beyond are around -14 dBfs but -13 is a good modern limit.

You can use freeware RMS Buddy VST or similar on your master stereo bus to check this.
Also, freeware OcenAudio editor has a built in menu command to gather statistics of stuff like this.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
(RMS Buddy VST)
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
(OcenAudio Editor)

------------------
Mutually-Assured Survival is preferred.

Be a false negative of yourself !
Nystagmus is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 12:45 AM   #9
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,829
MC Status: 18710
Thanks: 2
Thanked 374 Times in 323 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

youttube spotify and standerd radio add there own normalizing and compression to get that loud consistent sound your hearing for broadcast reasons.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2017, 09:08 PM   #10
Kyrpto
Knob Twiddler
Kyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of light
Posts: 221
MC Status: 460
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
youttube spotify and standerd radio add there own normalizing and compression to get that loud consistent sound your hearing for broadcast reasons.
That's understandable. But even on soundcloud I generally hear the same normalization across different artists.

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2017, 09:16 PM   #11
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,284
MC Status: 36100
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,155 Times in 2,711 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Any volume that isn't clipping.

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 01:20 AM   #12
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,829
MC Status: 18710
Thanks: 2
Thanked 374 Times in 323 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrpto View Post
That's understandable. But even on soundcloud I generally hear the same normalization across different artists.
yeap soundcloud compress the shit out of stuff to for encodeing reasons uses the same method as youtube, hency why i dont use soundcloud anymore to preview my tracks to people i use zippyshare as that strangely dosenot add to much artifacting.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 02:40 AM   #13
Kyrpto
Knob Twiddler
Kyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of light
Posts: 221
MC Status: 460
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
yeap soundcloud compress the shit out of stuff to for encodeing reasons uses the same method as youtube, hency why i dont use soundcloud anymore to preview my tracks to people i use zippyshare as that strangely dosenot add to much artifacting.
So most of this stuff is done by the music platform and not from the mastering engineer?

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 08:46 AM   #14
totes antenna
TOO on fleek
totes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond repute
totes antenna's Avatar
Skyway Patrol
Posts: 457
MC Status: 9810
Thanks: 184
Thanked 196 Times in 146 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

make sure it's in the red. if you remember your traffic laws book , red means stop what you're doing and show everyone.
totes antenna is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 11:01 AM   #15
Narukami Music
Master of the LFO
Narukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MCNarukami Music is a savage MC
Narukami Music's Avatar
Posts: 423
MC Status: 10160
Thanks: 145
Thanked 203 Times in 146 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrpto View Post
So most of this stuff is done by the music platform and not from the mastering engineer?
It's a bit of both. Mastering is about getting it to industry standards of loudness (according to country/location), and ensuring that your music is of equal volume to other music that is similar. The mastering engineer's job is to ensure that your music fits these standards.

However, each individual platform also has their own standards of loudness. If your music is too loud or too quiet according to their standards, they will decrease or increase the volume of your tracks accordingly.

------------------
Narukami Music is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 09:23 PM   #16
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,284
MC Status: 36100
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,155 Times in 2,711 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Mastering != Mixing.

At the end of the day, Mastering is the process of creating a master disc, or master product for mass production. I'm positive there are people out there who claim to be a mastering service and throw an effect on your tracks for a price, but it really has nothing to do with industry mastering.

The idea is to make sure that each of your tracks exist in the same dynamic range without overpowering one another for the purpose of smoothest playback on desired format (and with regards to many formats, more than simply volume dynamics, bitrate dynamics, and velocity of EQ). Certainly not to make you louder or make you as loud as the other artists on the label, regardless of what standard is believed.

In fact, how loud your music is or isn't absolutely is an aspect of Mixing.

As musicians and as producers (especially independent producers who aren't releasing Vinyl or CD's or Cassette or what have you) Mastering is the _least_ of your worries. Focus on mixing!

In terms of "soundcloud compression" we're talking about bitrates there right?

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to PROton42
Muse-ic (10-04-2017)
Old 04-03-2017, 12:49 AM   #17
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,829
MC Status: 18710
Thanks: 2
Thanked 374 Times in 323 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PROton42 View Post
In terms of "soundcloud compression" we're talking about bitrates there right?
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 01:19 AM   #18
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,284
MC Status: 36100
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,155 Times in 2,711 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
Yes, Encoding bitrates.

Especially in the past, many flash based widgets encoded the uploader's music to lower bitrates, so the upload strain would not be hard on the web services hosting the files.

This is not an intentional artistic form of audio compression, it sounds compressed because we are literally removing frequencies from the audio we have encoded.

This has nothing to do with tailoring the files to a particular quality standard and everything to do with conserving the strain of upload streams on your server. Or in many cases (such as youtube) being mindful of the download limitations of many internet users.

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2017, 04:06 PM   #19
Kyrpto
Knob Twiddler
Kyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of lightKyrpto is a glorious beacon of light
Posts: 221
MC Status: 460
Thanks: 9
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
So what about platforms like itunes? They don't compress/process your stuff in any way do they?

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16-03-2017, 11:36 PM   #20
White Noise
Eternal Echoer
White Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MC
White Noise's Avatar
California
Posts: 809
MC Status: 20260
Thanks: 88
Thanked 405 Times in 289 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Only if you specify to sell your stuff in ALAC (in the case of Itunes) or FLAC/WAV/AIFF elsewhere. I don't know how various platforms handle that.

Advertisements


------------------
Also, check this out.

White Noise is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fabfilter the new standard? Sound Knight The Studio 97 09-11-2013 10:09 PM
Standard tempo slider sensitivity?? psilocybophile Music Scene Chat 2 11-02-2013 04:47 PM
[Progressive House] Volume ft Tezlee - Be With You (Volume #1 EP OUT AUG 6TH!!!) VolumeArtist Listening Booth 0 28-07-2012 12:45 AM
standard intro tmfnop829 Introduce Yourself 2 07-01-2012 09:54 AM
does this forum really distinguish between standard dance music and IDM Owen De-Vice Music Theory & Composition 34 23-12-2011 12:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:26 AM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.