Standard volume?
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Reply
Thread Tools
Old 02-25-2017, 04:18 AM   #1
Kyrpto
Radial Developer
Kyrpto has a spectacular aura aboutKyrpto has a spectacular aura about
Posts: 134
MC Status: 160
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Standard volume?

I notice that all or almost all professionally mastered tracks are around the same volume. Is there such an industry standard?

Advertisements


------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 04:59 AM   #2
Oatbag
IDMf Artist
Oatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MC
Oatbag's Avatar
Best Coast
Posts: 3,811
MC Status: 81600
Thanks: 888
Thanked 1,606 Times in 1,083 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Well the peaks will be at 0 dB but I assume you mean the RMS level. Bob Katz says -10 dB for the loudest parts of the song, but that's probably not what you are going for. Lots of people look at the average level, but that assumes you have nothing going on dynamically. Having quiet bits and loud bits in a song is pleasing. In short - compress and limit the shit out of everything and go for -4 dB RMS, if the waveform doesn't look like a rectangle, compress more and give that hard limiter a workout.
Oatbag is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 05:03 AM   #3
Artificer
Soundscaper
Artificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MCArtificer is a savage MC
Artificer's Avatar
Southern Hell
Posts: 307
MC Status: 16210
Thanks: 99
Thanked 324 Times in 194 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

As close to 0dB as you can get without ever clipping. In my experience it tends to be between -0.3 and -0.6 in actual practice. That's what you'd be referencing to on a professionally mastered track. If you want to participate in the whole Loudness Wars thing, compress the fuck out of the wave and then master to just under 0dB for artificial loudness and zero dynamics.
Artificer is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2017, 06:18 AM   #4
White Noise
Digital Surfer
White Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MC
White Noise's Avatar
California
Posts: 580
MC Status: 12060
Thanks: 62
Thanked 241 Times in 180 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

I usually aim for dynamic range, so my stuff is a bit quieter overall than totally pro stuff, but I think it sounds better if you turn it up to compensate. I can't help much with loudness, I just do what seems right on a song by song basis.

When you're pushing all the way up against the limiter, make sure to turn your master output down by .5-1db AFTER the limiter. Use a separate gain plugin if you have to in order to be sure. This is because when you render your stuff out to mp3, it will clip a bit sooner (I don't know why, I just know it does), so you need extra headroom. Even if you don't render out mp3, many sites that you might use to host and stream your stuff for listeners will probably convert it to some variant of mp3 at some point, so I always prepare for that.

------------------
Also, check this out.

White Noise is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to White Noise
envelope3 (03-17-2017)
Old 02-25-2017, 03:55 PM   #5
relic
IDMf Supporter
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 16,137
MC Status: 8498030
Thanks: 9,516
Thanked 6,142 Times in 4,411 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
I usually aim for dynamic range, so my stuff is a bit quieter overall than totally pro stuff, but I think it sounds better if you turn it up to compensate. I can't help much with loudness, I just do what seems right on a song by song basis.
I know the way things get mastered has changed partially because of the devices people listen to music on: mobile device speakers, ear buds, little blue tooth speakers all things with small amps. But I do like the idea of mixing/mastering something to have dynamic range and sound good and then just let the listener control the loudness.
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 12:20 AM   #6
Numerical
IDMf Artist
Numerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MC
Numerical's Avatar
Austin
Age: 39
Posts: 10,565
MC Status: 45931031
Thanks: 6,370
Thanked 5,457 Times in 3,455 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Some protips

Multiband compression in the lo-mids and upper-lows (100-200hz)

hipass your low end (kick, bass, guitars, rhythm synths, dont go by a number, go by the sound.

Mix altogether, no soloing.

"make room" for things like snare/kick by surgical cuts in the other instruments (minus 1-3dB, high bandwidth/q)

Automate volumes and make sure nothing has any frequency buildup, especially bass.

Compress the bass, limit the bass, compress the bass. Staged compression slow attack medium release. No more than -3 dB of gain reduction for each instance of compression.

This will help to do during mixing so that when mastering it sounds smooth and balanced throughout BEFORE the mastering begins.
Numerical is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2017, 11:04 PM   #7
mmarra
Minor Glitch
mmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to beholdmmarra is a splendid one to behold
mmarra's Avatar
Toronto
Posts: 38
MC Status: 810
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

There is no standard to the final loudness of a song but from what I have seen and worked on alot of people tend to like their tracks to site between 6 & 8 RMS....and for electronic genres sometime even higher RMS because I push the level a bit more with electronic music due to the use of samples in the mixes.

But now with online streaming services starting to adopt loudness normalizing you might start see a loudness standard.
mmarra is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2017, 10:59 PM   #8
Nystagmus
Savage Mad Cunt
Nystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MCNystagmus is a savage MC
Nystagmus's Avatar
Planet Earth; 2017 AD.
Posts: 3,806
MC Status: 65260
Thanks: 3,367
Thanked 1,305 Times in 985 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

There should be about 8 decibels of upper VU activity which is comparable to what you'll see if you meter a radio broadcast. However more important is the average RMS (root mean square) decibel level. That should be no higher than -13 dBfs for the average of the entire track. Some tracks are higher than that but typically suffer from overcompression and lack of dynamics. Many hit tracks from the 1990s and beyond are around -14 dBfs but -13 is a good modern limit.

You can use freeware RMS Buddy VST or similar on your master stereo bus to check this.
Also, freeware OcenAudio editor has a built in menu command to gather statistics of stuff like this.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
(RMS Buddy VST)
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
(OcenAudio Editor)

------------------
Mutually-Assured Survival is preferred.

Be a false negative of yourself !
Nystagmus is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2017, 12:45 AM   #9
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,652
MC Status: 15660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 313 Times in 268 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

youttube spotify and standerd radio add there own normalizing and compression to get that loud consistent sound your hearing for broadcast reasons.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 09:08 PM   #10
Kyrpto
Radial Developer
Kyrpto has a spectacular aura aboutKyrpto has a spectacular aura about
Posts: 134
MC Status: 160
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
youttube spotify and standerd radio add there own normalizing and compression to get that loud consistent sound your hearing for broadcast reasons.
That's understandable. But even on soundcloud I generally hear the same normalization across different artists.

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 09:16 PM   #11
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,300
MC Status: 35750
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,148 Times in 2,706 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Any volume that isn't clipping.

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 01:20 AM   #12
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,652
MC Status: 15660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 313 Times in 268 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrpto View Post
That's understandable. But even on soundcloud I generally hear the same normalization across different artists.
yeap soundcloud compress the shit out of stuff to for encodeing reasons uses the same method as youtube, hency why i dont use soundcloud anymore to preview my tracks to people i use zippyshare as that strangely dosenot add to much artifacting.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 02:40 AM   #13
Kyrpto
Radial Developer
Kyrpto has a spectacular aura aboutKyrpto has a spectacular aura about
Posts: 134
MC Status: 160
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
yeap soundcloud compress the shit out of stuff to for encodeing reasons uses the same method as youtube, hency why i dont use soundcloud anymore to preview my tracks to people i use zippyshare as that strangely dosenot add to much artifacting.
So most of this stuff is done by the music platform and not from the mastering engineer?

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 08:46 AM   #14
totes antenna
TOO on fleek
totes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond reputetotes antenna has a reputation beyond repute
totes antenna's Avatar
Skyway Patrol
Posts: 451
MC Status: 9160
Thanks: 182
Thanked 183 Times in 138 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

make sure it's in the red. if you remember your traffic laws book , red means stop what you're doing and show everyone.
totes antenna is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 11:01 AM   #15
Narukami Music
Soundscaper
Narukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond repute
Narukami Music's Avatar
Posts: 347
MC Status: 8260
Thanks: 123
Thanked 165 Times in 116 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyrpto View Post
So most of this stuff is done by the music platform and not from the mastering engineer?
It's a bit of both. Mastering is about getting it to industry standards of loudness (according to country/location), and ensuring that your music is of equal volume to other music that is similar. The mastering engineer's job is to ensure that your music fits these standards.

However, each individual platform also has their own standards of loudness. If your music is too loud or too quiet according to their standards, they will decrease or increase the volume of your tracks accordingly.

------------------
Narukami Music is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2017, 09:23 PM   #16
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,300
MC Status: 35750
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,148 Times in 2,706 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Mastering != Mixing.

At the end of the day, Mastering is the process of creating a master disc, or master product for mass production. I'm positive there are people out there who claim to be a mastering service and throw an effect on your tracks for a price, but it really has nothing to do with industry mastering.

The idea is to make sure that each of your tracks exist in the same dynamic range without overpowering one another for the purpose of smoothest playback on desired format (and with regards to many formats, more than simply volume dynamics, bitrate dynamics, and velocity of EQ). Certainly not to make you louder or make you as loud as the other artists on the label, regardless of what standard is believed.

In fact, how loud your music is or isn't absolutely is an aspect of Mixing.

As musicians and as producers (especially independent producers who aren't releasing Vinyl or CD's or Cassette or what have you) Mastering is the _least_ of your worries. Focus on mixing!

In terms of "soundcloud compression" we're talking about bitrates there right?

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 12:49 AM   #17
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,652
MC Status: 15660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 313 Times in 268 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PROton42 View Post
In terms of "soundcloud compression" we're talking about bitrates there right?
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2017, 01:19 AM   #18
PROton42
IDMf Artist
PROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MCPROton42 is a savage MC
PROton42's Avatar
Posts: 10,300
MC Status: 35750
Thanks: 7,960
Thanked 4,148 Times in 2,706 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
Yes, Encoding bitrates.

Especially in the past, many flash based widgets encoded the uploader's music to lower bitrates, so the upload strain would not be hard on the web services hosting the files.

This is not an intentional artistic form of audio compression, it sounds compressed because we are literally removing frequencies from the audio we have encoded.

This has nothing to do with tailoring the files to a particular quality standard and everything to do with conserving the strain of upload streams on your server. Or in many cases (such as youtube) being mindful of the download limitations of many internet users.

------------------
PROton42 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 04:06 PM   #19
Kyrpto
Radial Developer
Kyrpto has a spectacular aura aboutKyrpto has a spectacular aura about
Posts: 134
MC Status: 160
Thanks: 8
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joem View Post
no its to do with flash and html encodeing
So what about platforms like itunes? They don't compress/process your stuff in any way do they?

------------------
Kyrpto is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2017, 11:36 PM   #20
White Noise
Digital Surfer
White Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MCWhite Noise is a savage MC
White Noise's Avatar
California
Posts: 580
MC Status: 12060
Thanks: 62
Thanked 241 Times in 180 Posts
Re: Standard volume?

Only if you specify to sell your stuff in ALAC (in the case of Itunes) or FLAC/WAV/AIFF elsewhere. I don't know how various platforms handle that.

Advertisements


------------------
Also, check this out.

White Noise is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fabfilter the new standard? Sound Knight The Studio 97 11-09-2013 10:09 PM
Standard tempo slider sensitivity?? psilocybophile Music Scene Chat 2 02-11-2013 04:47 PM
[Progressive House] Volume ft Tezlee - Be With You (Volume #1 EP OUT AUG 6TH!!!) VolumeArtist Listening Booth 0 07-28-2012 12:45 AM
standard intro tmfnop829 Introduce Yourself 2 01-07-2012 09:54 AM
does this forum really distinguish between standard dance music and IDM Owen De-Vice Music Theory & Composition 34 12-23-2011 12:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.