444, 332 tuning, etc?
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Old 26-11-2016, 12:50 AM   #1
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444, 332 tuning, etc?

Does anyone use alternate tuning or scales?

If so, do you tune all of your samples to this?

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Old 26-11-2016, 02:23 AM   #2
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

Is 444 even "alternate", it is very much in the range of what you could expect an orchestra to play at. 442 is pretty much the standard. Barogue music ensembles might be tuned even higher, especially if they play with a historical pipe organ, which were often tuned all over the place.

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Old 26-11-2016, 03:02 AM   #3
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

when you work with found sound, there is already a sort of flexibility in the tuning of your material. I don't really think about it. My guitar is tuned at 440 but a guitar isn't really the most just instrument you can find anyway.

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Old 26-11-2016, 03:53 AM   #4
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

444 and related tuning isn't about how high or low it is tuned as much as it is about being divisible by 3, 6, or 9. It also goes hand in hand with notes matching resonant frequencies, especially using certain other scales.
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Old 26-11-2016, 05:55 AM   #5
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

I'm messing around with the Ptolemaic diatonic scale in a WIP, I don't use samples in any of my stuff though. There's a lot out there in the world of microtuning, you can download a buttload of .tun files to try out in synths that support it (I stumbled upon the Ptolemaic scale I like pretty quickly). You can also use scala to make your own if you know how and want to.

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I know that has scala, I think all the .tun files are there somewhere as well. I haven't dived too deep into this yet, but it's something I might look into more in the future.
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Old 26-11-2016, 07:46 AM   #6
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

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Originally Posted by HexPhosphorus View Post
444 and related tuning isn't about how high or low it is tuned as much as it is about being divisible by 3, 6, or 9.
[citation needed], inb4 "math is actually magic", "soul vibrates at 432hz" and "prime numbers are devil's numbers and make everything terrible.". I'll also mentally prepare myself to painfully badly unobstructed references to borderline-mainstream religions espousing numerology.

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Originally Posted by HexPhosphorus View Post
It also goes hand in hand with notes matching resonant frequencies, especially using certain other scales.
Eh, kinda. This is strongly dependent on the instrument used - not that many of them have strongly tuned resonances, and amongst those that do due to sympathetic strings - sitar, hardanger fiddle, some hurdy-gurdies etc - the strings are often tunable either way. It primarily comes into play with church organs (where the room itself should be, and often is, considered part of the instrument) and some peculiar percussive idiophones; both of these instruments are incredibly difficult to re-tune. It does come into play with older (string) instruments sometimes, since they were built to be tuned higher and thus have the resonant cavities somewhat tuned to that higher frequency; this is also why some of them sound better in particular keys, they predate the 12-TET system. And unless you know the venue your electronic music is being performed in, and have done profound resonance analysis it literally is just about higher and lower. You could likely eliminate some feedback loops during live sessions by tuning higher / lower, though - at least if you are not using distorted sounds or anything that takes massive parts of the spectrum. So really, the whole resonant-frequencies-thing is a real phenomenon, but really unlikely to matter most of the time.

Unless you're trying to argue that human parts resonate at exactly 432hz and therefore numbers = magic = feel good man, awaken god-soul and glazejam yourself to a higher semisolid cheeseburger of consciousness, in which case [citation needed].

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Old 26-11-2016, 09:11 AM   #7
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

You know a few things about the topic.

I don't think the numbers are inherently evil. A lot of dark music intentionally goes for evil sounds, but knowledge is only as good or bad as its application. What separates miracles from black magic anyway besides the intent or the belief of what is assisting? What separates magic from science besides whether we understand how it works or not?

Anyway, most of my reference guides on the frequencies are not from occult origins but from stuff like research on the rife cannon.....which may be sketchy science at times, but it is interesting enough and there may sometimes be something to it.

I don't pretend to fully understand it. I just experiment with combinations and binaural beats.

I will say that I subjectively feel there is a difference in resonance when the numbers and scales are divisible by 3, 6, and 9 when I use tone stacking. It is difficult to prove or quantify that without well defined criteria though.

I have played around with the Gregorian frequencies and stuff like that but I was also inspired by some of the things Tesla talked about.


.....I don't completely know what I am doing. Sometimes it works, sometimes it needs improvement.
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Old 26-11-2016, 02:11 PM   #8
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

nope, because tuning doesnt matter.

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Old 02-12-2016, 05:49 PM   #9
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

Unless you're using basic sound waves you're not getting totally accurate pitches anyway.

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Old 29-01-2017, 06:11 AM   #10
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

never heard of anyone tuning to 444, what genre/era is it most prominent in?
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Old 31-01-2017, 08:21 AM   #11
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

The frequency shifts are basically a timeline from Pythagorian harmonic tuning to late 16th and early 17th century 'tuning inflation' fad.
In the West, the Grecian period determined a scientific find regarding a property of matter in respect to resonance and quickly started outlining everything to do with the relations of porportionate relations of length to pitch.
This was great, and everyone more or less followed suit to designing instruments using this measuring system as a byproduct.
The loose current measurement of tone for this method is around 432 hz frequency for A.
That's not what they called it, nor how they measured anything.
To them, they were using a measured harmonic tuning related to the length of the string or pipe.

Later, we get through out of the Dark Ages and into full concerts and there wasn't a set standard for tuning, nor did they use hz as a measure.
However we know their tunings by the tuning forks left behind.

Basically, the tunings started in Pythagorean ( pitstopped at "Just" tuning which could be argued that Pyth tuning is a form of Just tuning...though traditionally they are different a bit) and then moved to Meantone.
Pythagorean was centered around 5ths because that was the consequence of where the two waves of the tonic and 5th hit dead on the axis in oscillation.
Meantone wanted 3rds, due to the new fashion of tonal harmony analysis and finding how to weild these buggers in neat ways, so meantone oscillates in favor of keeping 3rds in tune.
The downside was that the distance between notes in either of these was not equidistant.
That means tuning a bunch of instruments a challenge, and some keys difficult to stay in tune in.

At the same time, people kept raising the tuning pitch to get brighter and brighter...trying to out do each other...think of it like 'turning to 11' 'loudness war' of "classical" music era.

The came equidistant tuning.
This happened as a result of a want to tune widely and easily.
Scheibler invented a 54 fork tuning fork system at A440 because that allowed equidistant tuning of 4hz distances, which made making and calculating the tool, as well as producing it, easier.

The industrial age further helped push A440 due to the ready available reference and construction adjustments for fork production consistently.

And eventually A440 won for that reason: ease of reproduction.

Orchestras today play in a wide range from 390's to 450's hz ranges, usually setting to what the period or composer did for the piece, or just because they prefer a certain pitch.

432 isn't magical.
It's just sympathetic to pythagorean harmonic tuning which is neat for 5ths...at the cost of consistency across multiple voicings and tuning to different keys.
Oh, also, if you use 432 equidistant tuning...you don't have "ancient" 432...like all the new age stuff talks of natural waves , Earth, the Sun, the secret to the ending of Shane....etc...
And that's because if you use equidistant tuning in 432 then you cannot get the pythagorean ratios because that whole 432 pythagorean thing was entirely driven by SELF reference ratio...not a static interval.
That means you MUST set to Just tuning for "authentic" or "correct" 432 hz tuning...which no digital device can 'easily' do and sooo you are very unlikely to accomplush it digitally.
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Anyways,
Cheers!

Last edited by TheStumps; 31-01-2017 at 09:46 AM..

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Old 31-01-2017, 09:15 AM   #12
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

I went looking for a good summary write up on the 'why different tunings' so folks who want to can learn more than just the gloss-over I gave.
This one looks good.

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Old 31-01-2017, 02:30 PM   #13
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

420 hz

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Old 02-02-2017, 09:55 AM   #14
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AetherSound View Post
never heard of anyone tuning to 444, what genre/era is it most prominent in?
Old-ish, still occasionally used by some orchestras. US has more or less decided to go for 440, but Europe has varied practices - and even in US there are outliers, Boston Symphony Orchestra tunes at 442 for example. German orchestras in general tend to tune up to around 445, and 442 is pretty much "europe-standard". Tuning according to the oboist is not all that rare, and oboists may play all over the place depending on acclimation and other factors.

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that serves as an instruction for piano technicians to tune according to each orchestra's preferences. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily what the rest of the orchestra tunes to. Piano may be tuned one or even two Hz above the rest of the orchestra to punch through. Some accordions also come at 444, and some percussion instruments such as steel tongue drums or glockenspiels and vibraphones might come at that, as well. With many of these instruments one should consider that the overtone series is not necessarily exact multiples of the base frequency. In idiophones, especially metallophones, this is caused by the instrument itself - in harps and pianos this is caused by the insufficient harmonic arc and therefore required thicker strings.

As far as period-accurate tunings, they're all over the place. Anywhere from 400 to 500 is probably a fair game, though the extremes are rare. 415 is common in baroque music, but in German tradition some works are tuned up instead, to around 470 Hz. Some baroque orchestras tune as low as 392, but this often requires very specific woodwind instruments to accommodate, and is thus expensive - even more so than the general period accurate tuning. 392Hz is relevant for period-accurate french music in particular. Old pipe organs, many of which can be in use, are tuned all over the place and the orchestra needs to accommodate that.

Tuning systems beyond the pitch are complex, and there are a lot. Orchestras often tune to meantone or pythagorean or equal temperament, but for specific instruments there is a whole lot of "well-tempered" tunings. Piano in particular has a bunch, but harps and idiophones and organs can have theirs as well. It's a jumbled mess, which is why everything is tuned to 12-tet today. Except some world music, period accurate music, or experimental music.

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Old 06-02-2017, 08:55 AM   #15
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Re: 444, 332 tuning, etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HexPhosphorus View Post
444 and related tuning isn't about how high or low it is tuned as much as it is about being divisible by 3, 6, or 9. It also goes hand in hand with notes matching resonant frequencies, especially using certain other scales.
I see the logic in having an easily divisible number. It's the same reason our ancestors picked 60 minutes per hour. Convenient for calculations. However, there's nothing about 443 that's not divisible by 3, 6, or 9 or whatever. It just doesn't result in an integer. Integers in this case are entirely arbitrary. There's no such thing as 444 hertz in nature, because hertz is already based on our abstractly constructed divisions of time.

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420 hz
So dank

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