Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Reply
Thread Tools
Old 05-24-2016, 09:35 PM   #1
oDDgOD
Soundscaper
oDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond reputeoDDgOD has a reputation beyond repute
oDDgOD's Avatar
Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 322
MC Status: 5060
Thanks: 16
Thanked 101 Times in 76 Posts
Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

I've been comparing my song structures to those of other songs to see if there's anywhere I can improve and I noticed that I don't really use prechoruses but many songs do. My typical structure is something like this:

intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus-chorus-outro and I use the last bar or two of drums to transition between the different parts.

Of the songs I've written so far, I've only used a prechorus in 1 track, but I don't necessarily feel like the absence of one is effecting my songs in a negative manner.

Do you think the prechorus is necessary and do you use one in every song or just whenever it fits right?

Last edited by oDDgOD; 05-24-2016 at 09:42 PM..

Advertisements


------------------
Anybody can be good at something but it takes real effort to suck as bad as I do.
oDDgOD is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2016, 09:41 PM   #2
relic
IDMf Supporter
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 16,393
MC Status: 8506730
Thanks: 9,826
Thanked 6,316 Times in 4,536 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

I have never heard of the idea of a prechorus. Id say the old saying "if it sounds good, it sounds good" applies here. But Im curious to hear any other opinions as Im trying to write more complex arrangements.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2016, 10:13 PM   #3
jbvdb493
IDMf Supporter
jbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MC
jbvdb493's Avatar
Posts: 1,488
MC Status: 21210
Thanks: 372
Thanked 424 Times in 348 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

Absolutely you must and at 1:30 and at 2:55 exactly for a 4 min song!

------------------
jbvdb493 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2016, 10:31 PM   #4
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,207
MC Status: 42160
Thanks: 824
Thanked 843 Times in 629 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

So, I've wondered about this, too. With catchy pop songs there is a definitive song structure and it's usually very easy to tell the chorus. I've never really bothered enough (yet) to try to disect some of my favorite tracks for their structure.

With vocal trance there seems to be a bit more of this going on. Most tracks I listen to generally seem to follow more of the approach of add new stuff until the box is full, change things up a bit and/or add a drop/break, rebuild, adding new elements as desired/required to not bore the listener. Fade out or build back is about 50:50.

Am I missing something?

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2016, 11:48 PM   #5
candlesayshi
Imperfect
candlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MCcandlesayshi is a savage MC
candlesayshi's Avatar
Chicago
Posts: 2,881
MC Status: 39279499
Thanks: 899
Thanked 1,139 Times in 732 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

You don't have to do anything.

You sound like you're discovering ABABCB which is (along with variations thereof) a hugely popular song structure for arranging pop music. Though, in my opinion, getting caught up in it will take you down a silly path. If you're listening for things like that, instead of very statically listening to how the parts are structured and trying to replicate that because you think that this one simple rule will fill in the gaps in whatever you think you're lacking, listen instead for how each of the different sections enforce the ideas or feels that they're trying to get across, and how each of those parts is carried into each other to carry the flow of the song from beginning to end.

------------------
candlesayshi is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 12:43 AM   #6
relic
IDMf Supporter
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 16,393
MC Status: 8506730
Thanks: 9,826
Thanked 6,316 Times in 4,536 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by candlesayshi View Post
You don't have to do anything.

You sound like you're discovering ABABCB which is (along with variations thereof) a hugely popular song structure for arranging pop music. Though, in my opinion, getting caught up in it will take you down a silly path. If you're listening for things like that, instead of very statically listening to how the parts are structured and trying to replicate that because you think that this one simple rule will fill in the gaps in whatever you think you're lacking, listen instead for how each of the different sections enforce the ideas or feels that they're trying to get across, and how each of those parts is carried into each other to carry the flow of the song from beginning to end.
I dont really think in chorus and verse bc I make insturmental music, but I try to use juxtaposition as much as possible and make different sections sound enough different yet related at the same time.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to relic
candlesayshi (05-25-2016)
Old 05-25-2016, 12:49 AM   #7
ndwella
Soundwave Mangler
ndwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant futurendwella has a brilliant future
ndwella's Avatar
burger king isles
Posts: 178
MC Status: 1910
Thanks: 15
Thanked 38 Times in 29 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

you don't really have to use anything whatsoever in music - not even sound, actually, as John Cage has masterfully taught us a couple of decades ago.

don't get caught on pre-imposed structures and stuff like this, just let your creative juices flow freely. if it sounds good, it's all good.

------------------
ndwella is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 04:31 AM   #8
mnkvolcno
Savage Mad Cunt
mnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MC
mnkvolcno's Avatar
Posts: 1,281
MC Status: 24810
Thanks: 473
Thanked 496 Times in 363 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

I don't really think of verse chorus ever. I do think ABCD etc.

A prechorus is essentially just a relatively short transitional phrase between two song sections. You can do this or not do this. I dunno. If you like em do it. Personally I think they can come off as cornier than fuck pretty easy with your listener being like "oh it's one of those goofy edm things".

Whateve floats your boat. I guess if you're trying to make club bangers that make people dance, that would probably be the best reason to use em.

------------------
mnkvolcno is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to mnkvolcno
relic (05-25-2016)
Old 05-25-2016, 06:52 AM   #9
RFJ
IDMf ArtistModerator
RFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MCRFJ is a savage MC
RFJ's Avatar
I live in California.
Age: 38
Posts: 13,012
MC Status: 199644068
Thanks: 4,630
Thanked 4,896 Times in 3,160 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

I wasn't really consciously aware of the pre chorus until I started to work with singer songwriters and combine what I do with what they do. I don't really see the point in electronic music because we can do things like fills and transitory elements - sweeps, noise, silence, what-not. When you're just a guy with a guitar though it does help things to ease into the chorus, and cue the listener a bit more, which I do think is important in songwriting of any kind.

------------------
RFJ is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 01:04 PM   #10
jbvdb493
IDMf Supporter
jbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MCjbvdb493 is a savage MC
jbvdb493's Avatar
Posts: 1,488
MC Status: 21210
Thanks: 372
Thanked 424 Times in 348 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

It's pretty big in metal too

------------------
jbvdb493 is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 01:54 PM   #11
Evelon
IDMf ArtistModerator
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,565
MC Status: 214387348
Thanks: 879
Thanked 2,778 Times in 1,736 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

No, you don't have to use it. Personally, I use it quite often though. But there are no rules.

------------------
Evelon is online now   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 02:45 PM   #12
mnkvolcno
Savage Mad Cunt
mnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MC
mnkvolcno's Avatar
Posts: 1,281
MC Status: 24810
Thanks: 473
Thanked 496 Times in 363 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFJ View Post
I wasn't really consciously aware of the pre chorus until I started to work with singer songwriters and combine what I do with what they do. I don't really see the point in electronic music because we can do things like fills and transitory elements - sweeps, noise, silence, what-not. When you're just a guy with a guitar though it does help things to ease into the chorus, and cue the listener a bit more, which I do think is important in songwriting of any kind.
To me, when we're talking about this stuff, it is implied that we're talking about music that has a harmonic form to it... which most electronic music does not. Nowadays some people are starting to explore it, but still the majority of it is AAAAAA chords wise. So, if you're song is harmonically static, then I would totally agree with what you are saying, why think of it as a prechorus? Just throw in a noise sweep.

Now, if you have two different harmonic patterns going on for your "verse" and "chorus" it makes a bit more sense to have a "prechorus" (i keep thinking of this girl in high school who was talking about pre-cum.. add strikers again).

simple example:

verse: IV-ii-V-I

chorus: vi-ii-v-v

both of these chord progressions are going to repeat a bunch of times, so what you might do is thrown in a 4 bar section like this in between them

IV-IV-V-V

that would make things a little more interesting.

like I say, to me this stuff only makes sense if there are chord progressions going on. This doesn't apply to a lot of electronic music. How do you make a prechorus in an ambient track uhhhhhhh

------------------
mnkvolcno is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2016, 02:47 PM   #13
mnkvolcno
Savage Mad Cunt
mnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MCmnkvolcno is a savage MC
mnkvolcno's Avatar
Posts: 1,281
MC Status: 24810
Thanks: 473
Thanked 496 Times in 363 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

oh yea, and when i was kind of dissing on prechoruses, earlier, I want to point out that I don't think they are bad. I use them some times.. more like just use them with caution so it doesn't sound contrived and corny

------------------
mnkvolcno is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2016, 05:02 AM   #14
Narukami Music
Soundscaper
Narukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond reputeNarukami Music has a reputation beyond repute
Narukami Music's Avatar
Posts: 381
MC Status: 8860
Thanks: 136
Thanked 177 Times in 125 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
No, you don't have to use it. Personally, I use it quite often though. But there are no rules.
Pretty much this. I have a few songs that have a pre-chorus but I don't feel like I need it.

On a side note, if we were also talking about EDM and stuff, I like to think that the build up could also be considered a pre-chorus so I guess if you have that element in your song, you could say you use a pre-chorus.

------------------
Narukami Music is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2016, 12:05 PM   #15
mute machine
無意味なネクタイ
mute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MCmute machine is a savage MC
mute machine's Avatar
a garden with a cassette player
Age: 28
Posts: 1,451
MC Status: 18560
Thanks: 213
Thanked 371 Times in 302 Posts
Re: Do you HAVE to use a prechorus?

I almost always do, but you really don't have to.

Advertisements


------------------
mute machine is online now   Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:55 PM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.