Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon
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Old 20-03-2015, 02:35 PM   #1
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Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Hey guys,

I'm on Logic Pro X and have this weird problem where everytime I get CPU overload, volume jumps straight through the roof. I'm not talking about any small difference, it's like suddenly adding 30db boost to master channel, making it dangerous to your hearing. I've read some other people have this same problem, but I haven't found any real solution to it. Does anyone have any fix to this issue?

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Old 20-03-2015, 02:41 PM   #2
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

So you are mixing with 30dB headroom on the master?

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Old 20-03-2015, 06:48 PM   #3
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Have you considered asking the people that made Logic? (tech support)

Would a limiter on the master bus help?

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Old 20-03-2015, 08:26 PM   #4
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
So you are mixing with 30dB headroom on the master?
No, but then again, it wouldn't matter if I were, fader isn't moving anywhere, volume just jumps. For example, If there's 6db headroom on master (so master is at peaking at -6db), meter just jumps to somewhere over +20db or something for a few seconds, then song pauses and CPU-overload-message pops up. If master is peaking at -40db, it just jumps to -10 or -20db when overload happens.

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Would a limiter on the master bus help?
It does help a little bit, but thing still gives you a heart attack. Imagine sticking limiter to master, then pressing play, and accidentally cranking pre-gain to +30db. Whole track changes into ultra squashed dirty square wave-y noise sitting at steady 0db and as you can imagine, it's still damn loud.

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Have you considered asking the people that made Logic? (tech support)
That's probably the way to go then, gonna do more googling too but this far I haven't found anything.
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Old 21-03-2015, 10:33 AM   #5
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
No, but then again, it wouldn't matter if I were, fader isn't moving anywhere, volume just jumps. For example, If there's 6db headroom on master (so master is at peaking at -6db), meter just jumps to somewhere over +20db or something for a few seconds, then song pauses and CPU-overload-message pops up. If master is peaking at -40db, it just jumps to -10 or -20db when overload happens.
+20dBFS isn't possible.
Mix with 6dB (or less) of headroom, with a limiter on the master set to -0.3dB. That will surely solve your problems.
I used to get noiseburst from hell in the early days with Buzz (when it was still a bit buggy). I learned to mix with reasonable headroom and with a limiter on the master, so when the bursts came I didn't shit my pants.

To me it sounds like you have a software problem and/or audio interface problem. Contact Apple to see if they know more about this issue.

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Old 21-03-2015, 06:38 PM   #6
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
+20dBFS isn't possible.
Why it wouldn't be possible in digital environment? OFC if you bounce the track, it will clip badly, but inside your DAW it's just louder nothing else. And yeah, as I said, limiter helps a bit, but it's kinda bad still. Maybe with 1db headroom and some specific limiter that just squashes the sound but doesn't soft clip it. Using Adaptive limiter (stock plugin) in Logic and having reasonable headroom (usually 3-10dB) hasn't really saved me this far unless I've been listening on really low (set from my laptop, not Logic).
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Old 24-10-2015, 05:25 AM   #7
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Yea man, I would hit up the developers for logic as well. I have had a similar issue in Pro Tools. Every once in awhile half my tracks will drop out and when they come back in it would spike my system by about 12db. Def annoying to my ears and scared me for the health of my monitors. Hopefully you can get it sorted out. Good luck!
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Old 24-10-2015, 06:57 AM   #8
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

I get this on select tracks. Gotta toss a limiter on there. Getting startled sucks but the +30dB hearing damage is worse.
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Old 24-10-2015, 08:34 AM   #9
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Originally Posted by -Agu- View Post
Why it wouldn't be possible in digital environment? OFC if you bounce the track, it will clip badly, but inside your DAW it's just louder nothing else. And yeah, as I said, limiter helps a bit, but it's kinda bad still. Maybe with 1db headroom and some specific limiter that just squashes the sound but doesn't soft clip it. Using Adaptive limiter (stock plugin) in Logic and having reasonable headroom (usually 3-10dB) hasn't really saved me this far unless I've been listening on really low (set from my laptop, not Logic).
Because it's physically impossible. Full Scale is measured from -infinity to zero. Logic gives 6dB of "headroom" at the output. This does not equal +6dB Full Scale. What it means is that when your mix output exceeds 0dB FS your sound card will not shit itself and destroy your speakers (and possibly melt your brain). Instead what happens is any signal over 0dB FS is clipped - hence why it sounds shit when you're rocking 6dB on the master.

This is why Ev's suggestion of setting a hard limit at 0.3dB and then giving yourself a very large amount of headroom is the way to go. Firstly, giving yourself enough headroom lowers the risk of hitting zero. And secondly, setting a hard limit at -0.3dB ensures that anything that would have hit zero gets squashed.

And thirdly, the hard limit is going to give you a lot more clues as to where you're going wrong in your gain structure; as opposed to a red blinking meter with a meaningless number on it. It means that if your mix is hitting zero, you can see how far it exceeds the limit by looking at the amount of gain reduction being applied.

This allows you to quickly lower the amplitude of your mix groups to make sure that you're always working within the digital domain's safe operating levels.
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Old 24-10-2015, 09:36 AM   #10
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

This is no longer quite as true in logic X but I remember in Logic 9 if you went to 0 it was 0, and if you hit +12 it sounded like a clean +12. I get that it's tautologically impossible for it to be higher than maximum aka 0 on a full scale measurement but logic's "0" is "0" on a wav and it can still play way above its 0 without being hard limited.

That's the nature of the software.
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Old 24-10-2015, 10:04 AM   #11
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
This is no longer quite as true in logic X but I remember in Logic 9 if you went to 0 it was 0, and if you hit +12 it sounded like a clean +12. I get that it's tautologically impossible for it to be higher than maximum aka 0 on a full scale measurement but logic's "0" is "0" on a wav and it can still play way above its 0 without being hard limited.

That's the nature of the software.
Lol... okay buddy.

I think you're getting your floating points confused with your integers...

Ultimately, you're free to do what you want in the box. But if you want to hope to share your music with anyone who isn't a Logic / [insert your exact DAW and software configuration here] you'll need to observe 0dB...

Why? Because you can't go above 0dB FS!

It's kind of like when you're driving through your local neighbourhood on your way home and you hit a red light on an empty street. Sure, you could run the red light. Chances are nobody will notice. So you run the red light and nothing happens. Now, whenever you're driving down that road on your way home, if you hit the red, you run it.

Then one day you have to travel for work and you're driving down the main road on your way home and you hit a red and you run it. Then the cop parked behind the billboard pulls you over to write you a ticket and - if you're a black person in America - probably shoot you dead because black people smell like weed apparently.

That's kind of what you're doing to your music when you don't observe 0dB. You're not even giving your choons a chance to put their hands on the wheel and reach for the license... That's just cold man...
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Old 24-10-2015, 10:22 AM   #12
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Maybe you accidentally set up a feedback loop and that's what causes the CPU overload as well as the volume jump?

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Old 24-10-2015, 10:31 AM   #13
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

This is a different issue, and I don't use Logic. But i think most DAWs have some headroom above the 0 dBvu of the master metering. I think this is the case if the engine is at least 32-bit float. But if you render to 24-bit or less,t it will clip off anything above 0 dBfs / 0 dBvu. And if you render to 32-bit float it will look like it's clipping until you normalise it down to 0 dBfs or less using a standalone 32-bit float capable editor. And of course a 16-bit render would clip on render.

As far as the soundcard goes, I think whether or not it clips depends upon the soundcard and it's drivers. But I'm not entirely sure about that. But I do remember having an M-Audio 24-bit soundcard and I could mix various audio sources on it and it wouldn't clip. But I can't demo that right now because I don't own it anymore. And believe it or not, my current soundcard (Alesis M1Active 320 USB) is only 16-bit!

Anyways, I'm not trying to flame or anything... just adding info as I remember it. I do remember for sure that Reaper automatically mutes any channel, master or not, which hits +18 dBvu / +18 dBfs.

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Old 24-10-2015, 12:07 PM   #14
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Lol... okay buddy.

I think you're getting your floating points confused with your integers...

Ultimately, you're free to do what you want in the box. But if you want to hope to share your music with anyone who isn't a Logic / [insert your exact DAW and software configuration here] you'll need to observe 0dB...

Why? Because you can't go above 0dB FS!

It's kind of like when you're driving through your local neighbourhood on your way home and you hit a red light on an empty street. Sure, you could run the red light. Chances are nobody will notice. So you run the red light and nothing happens. Now, whenever you're driving down that road on your way home, if you hit the red, you run it.

Then one day you have to travel for work and you're driving down the main road on your way home and you hit a red and you run it. Then the cop parked behind the billboard pulls you over to write you a ticket and - if you're a black person in America - probably shoot you dead because black people smell like weed apparently.

That's kind of what you're doing to your music when you don't observe 0dB. You're not even giving your choons a chance to put their hands on the wheel and reach for the license... That's just cold man...
Evelon was either telling Agu that Agu couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike or making an irrelevant side comment that confused Agu into thinking that into thinking he was being told he couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike.

The point of this thread is that for some reason Agu experiences huge gain spikes out of nowhere that are +20dB on the master fader. As a logic user, I've had the exact same thing happen. It doesn't matter if there's nothing above 0dBFS, because this thread isn't about a final exported wav file, it's about Agu's experience in the DAW. I hope that clears it up.
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Old 24-10-2015, 03:11 PM   #15
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

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Evelon was either telling Agu that Agu couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike or making an irrelevant side comment that confused Agu into thinking that into thinking he was being told he couldn't be experiencing a 20dB spike.
Never mind dude. You don't get it.

Because you don't get it, doesn't mean it's irrelevant. (Ev's post was more relevant than anything else that's been said).

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Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
The point of this thread is that for some reason Agu experiences huge gain spikes out of nowhere that are +20dB on the master fader. As a logic user, I've had the exact same thing happen. It doesn't matter if there's nothing above 0dBFS, because this thread isn't about a final exported wav file, it's about Agu's experience in the DAW. I hope that clears it up.
Yes, and if y'all follow Evelon's advice, this would never happen to you ever again. But instead we get "but why come it let me go over zero then?" This is essentially the electronic music equivalent of Spinal Tap's amps that go up to eleven...

Anyway... Don't worry about using a limiter... clearly you don't need it...
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Old 24-10-2015, 03:23 PM   #16
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Clearly. Clearly I didn't advise a limiter myself.

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Originally Posted by Hygro View Post
I get this on select tracks. Gotta toss a limiter on there. Getting startled sucks but the +30dB hearing damage is worse.
Evelon says "mix quieter, use a limiter". Good advice. Evelon also says you can't have +20dBFS which confused the topic. Yes, there's no reason to mix above zero since you will have to bring it down later, and a limiter stop the feedbacking problem from exploding your eardrums. win-win. Doesn't change that you can have your DAW read over 0, which is what Agu was experience and trying to get help for. Indeed, he wanted a way to fix it that didn't involve a limiter, so in that sense, he was one step ahead to begin with.

Does this make sense now?
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Old 24-10-2015, 07:26 PM   #17
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

I lolled.

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Old 17-11-2015, 12:38 AM   #18
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Re: Logic Pro is going to make me deaf soon

Thanks for the post about Logic, I'm about to dive into that program soon. Any tip helps

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