Sound Design in general
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Sound Design, Mixing, & Studio Techniques Need to know how to make a specific sound? Want to improve your mix? Need advice on micing-up a drum kit? This is the area for you.

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Old 16-06-2015, 09:30 PM   #1
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Sound Design in general

I find that when I'm producing music, I usually have little trouble coming up with catchy melodies or riffs. It's sound design that is pain for me, and even though I've gotten better at making the sounds I want to hear, often times I find my sounds a bit "rough" to my taste--just not quite there, and this annoys me a lot. I know there's no easy way to just magically get what you want, but what are some things that you guys do when you're trying to design a sound? Are there some tricks that I'm just missing out on or is it just practice makes perfect?

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Old 16-06-2015, 10:32 PM   #2
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Re: Sound Design in general

Practice makes perfect, and more specifically practicing sound design makes perfect. I've taken a number of classes on sound design from different producers, and they all say that you need to have sessions dedicated to nothing but sound design. Don't try to write a track, just design sounds, experiment and try new things. By doing that, you're giving yourself more tools to work with when it's time to actually write a tune.

It can also be really helpful to copy a sound. Extract some of your favorite synths and drums from your favorite tunes and try to copy them as closely as possible. Focusing in and learning from more experienced producers is a great way to expand your library, since you can hear instantly if you've done it, "right" or not.
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Old 16-06-2015, 10:38 PM   #3
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Re: Sound Design in general

I make everything else in the song sound equally terrible, then no one can tell the difference.

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Old 16-06-2015, 11:31 PM   #4
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by Andantonius View Post
Practice makes perfect, and more specifically practicing sound design makes perfect. I've taken a number of classes on sound design from different producers, and they all say that you need to have sessions dedicated to nothing but sound design. Don't try to write a track, just design sounds, experiment and try new things. By doing that, you're giving yourself more tools to work with when it's time to actually write a tune.

It can also be really helpful to copy a sound. Extract some of your favorite synths and drums from your favorite tunes and try to copy them as closely as possible. Focusing in and learning from more experienced producers is a great way to expand your library, since you can hear instantly if you've done it, "right" or not.
Yeah, I've been finding that copying helps--now I know what all the knobs do, just not which knobs to actually use all the time. Thanks for the help though, it's reassuring to know that I'm not just simply missing something.

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Old 17-06-2015, 04:10 AM   #5
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by Bipolar Joe View Post
I make everything else in the song sound equally terrible, then no one can tell the difference.
Good responses tend to get skimmed over. This is one of those times.
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Old 17-06-2015, 06:12 AM   #6
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Re: Sound Design in general

Adding reverb or cutting a large notch right through the middle of the frequency range then bit crushing, or both usually works for me in a pinch.

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Old 17-06-2015, 12:57 PM   #7
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Re: Sound Design in general

I tend to design sounds and presets and things a lot, and I do this prior to actually writing my tracks. Basically I amass a massive folder of loops, synth patches, one-shots and other things that I feel could be handy. When the time comes to actually write a track it's all there for me, and there is often enough variation that I can pick something that works in the context. If not, I can always fuck everything up and violate the sound until it is a screaming, screeching, begging and moaning mess. Often it is not as much about the original sound design but how things are being fit together.

As far as actual sound design goes: I use synthesizers that sound pleasant. Bazille has a wonderful quality to it, and it can be played alongside actual physical instruments without sounding weird. That is quite a valuable aspect, and one shared by relatively few other synthesizers; Moogs sound great in rock/jazz/funk or anything with more aggressive sound, but most synthesizers fail even at that. Having this sort-of-style of combining different kinds of instruments helps to form tracks that are more cohesive, which makes sound design sound better in context.

Think about the ideas and styles you want your music to encompass, and try to design sounds that fit that. For me, that is organic, distorted, aggressive, interplay of multiple elements. That guides my decisions much further than what would be apparent at the surface. I tried Serum, but it did not easily achieve the goals I wanted from it. It often sounded clearly synthetic, overtly bright, and the sound of some of the FX tried to be too epic/huge to be played in a context with multiple elements. It was a good synth, but it was not a synth for me. I am sure I could get the results with it, but that would involve spending a lot of time on each patch - which translates to less raw material to work with when actually composing a track. Likewise I tend to choose my FX and sample sources to achieve my goals. A lot of sound design takes place even before any sounds are made.

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I would like to note that trying to copy sounds is kind of a bullshit idea, because often you end up in a workflow that just isn't for you. Attempting to replicate someone else often forces you to do things that do not come naturally to you. Randomly fiddling around and making sounds also gives you a pretty good idea about what is going on in any particular sound you might hear. Being able to replicate something is the electronic music equivalent of the Chinese monk that can throw needles through glass: It is a party trick, and not a goal in itself - it is something you can do because you realized something fundamental about sound, or yourself. It is a byproduct of knowledge and experience.

The advice about sessions dedicated to sound design is absolutely true, though.

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Old 17-06-2015, 04:41 PM   #8
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by Blingley
I would like to note that trying to copy sounds is kind of a bullshit idea, because often you end up in a workflow that just isn't for you. Attempting to replicate someone else often forces you to do things that do not come*naturally*to you
what

Sorry but. That's dumb as hell.

So a guitarist should never learn others techniques? Am artist should never study things they don't normally draw? The whole point is TO explore new things and see if they work for you or not, and to flex your skills in order to evaluate and help refine them.

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Old 17-06-2015, 05:33 PM   #9
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Re: Sound Design in general

Copying/emulating, making tons of mistakes, trial and error, trying to break things (not physically, but it's fun to push a VST/VSTi, like automating/randomizing all parameters at the same time), "what if"-approach to everything, experimenting and eventually building bridges between all the different results/discoveries.

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Old 17-06-2015, 08:26 PM   #10
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Re: Sound Design in general

Learning what all the common synth controls do and being able to use that "language" to make the sound you hear in your head are cities on the other side of the world from each other, really.

And I'm not sure if making the exact sound you hear in your head is a skill you can learn or an innate talent. I still can't really just listen to a patch and guess that well how to make it.

I'm not saying don't try or anything, but the more you practice, mindfully, and connect the knob movements with what is happening to the sound you'll get better at it. I'd highly recommend a knobby hardware synth. Synthesis never clicked for me until I started working with hardware.

That being said, many people who are better at synthesis than I am have never touched a hardware synth : ) The muscle-memory thing just works well for me...

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Old 17-06-2015, 09:04 PM   #11
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Re: Sound Design in general

Thanks for all the help! I'll try to keep this stuff in mind when I'm producing. I guess sometimes the sound design process just comes easy to me, and sometimes I just hit the figurative brick wall and can't figure out how to make my patch just how I like it.

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Old 17-06-2015, 09:12 PM   #12
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by T-CHANG View Post
Thanks for all the help! I'll try to keep this stuff in mind when I'm producing. I guess sometimes the sound design process just comes easy to me, and sometimes I just hit the figurative brick wall and can't figure out how to make my patch just how I like it.
You can also just divide the stuff into 1) producing and 2) intentional sound design/experimentation/fucking around. Then you don't have a goal you can just explore the sonic possibilities.
Sometime that experimentation can lead to great ideas/tracks/sounds, that can evolve into something productive.

Last edited by Evelon; 17-06-2015 at 09:45 PM..

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Old 18-06-2015, 01:10 PM   #13
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by oly View Post
So a guitarist should never learn others techniques? Am artist should never study things they don't normally draw?
They should, but the point at which doing so is beneficial is way beyond the beginner territory. Copying mannerisms in order to put up a passable performance while having lacking fundamentals is one of the most common criticisms instrumentalists and singers face. Learning sound design by copying others is the equivalent of an artist studying composition of abstract paintings before understanding basic color theory.

This is especially true in sound design. Design, by definition, follows function. It is not important to understand how things are made to sound as they do if you can't grasp the why. What is the context, what are the other elements of the track. How does the sound work with the composition, and the other way around. Some sounds feel right as a way to relieve tension, or to bridge other sounds. Some sounds are just awful on their own, others great but refuse to work with other elements, or even certain rhythmic structures. The variation in note lengths in a riff can make a complete difference in terms of what parameters sound good. There is a reason why Hammond isn't played like a Clavinet, or like a Piano, or a Harpsichord - and one needs to understand these reasons to be successful at sound design.

Perhaps nowhere is the futility of beginners jumping to the deep end of the pool more apparent than in the bygone dubstep fad. There are some 30 minute tutorials on youtube trying to recreate individual snare hits. Countless hours of bass sounds, and most of them completely and utterly overthinking the concept. This manifested in numerous uninspired productions, where these sounds were glued together without a clue about what made them work to begin with. Sentences recited from memory with no understanding of the language. Big house music has a fair share of this. In fact, the problem is persistent throughout whatever is popular at any given moment.

Furthermore the insistence on copying and reproduction is behind one of my pet peeves regarding electronic musicians - the gear obsession. Now, I am sure that the plugin manufacturers are happy cashing in when people substitute gear for skill, but the problem is also persistent in much of the discussion regarding production. IDMF is luckily not bad in this regard. Guitarists are just as guilty as electronic musicians, though. There are a lot of sound design questions answered with "just use massive", or other similar mantras.

Copying leads to style over substance. It is learning to imitate a specific dialect before knowing the language. It often leads to undesirable mannerisms that take much longer to unlearn than they took to learn, and easily leads to lacking fundamentals. It might give you the illusion of progressing fast, but you're really just deluding yourself and wasting time. Understanding specifics will be much faster when your fundamentals are strong - and I'm sure this is what any qualified music or art teacher will tell their students.

EDIT: :shitstorm:?

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Old 18-06-2015, 03:14 PM   #14
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Re: Sound Design in general

Way tldr honestly.

I don't see anyone here say to just use massive...

'How do i skrillex' culture is very different from attempting to recreate sounds as an exercise, anyway. And that's not what the thread is asking anyway. Mindfully attempting to learn to make new sounds is a great way to learn your tools and how and why sounds work

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Old 18-06-2015, 05:41 PM   #15
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Re: Sound Design in general

I agree with what has been said before, except that copying can be good for only one reason : Try to understand how people made that type of sound, without wanting to recreate it.

Nevertheless, if I can suggest you to buy only one tutorial, and nothing else when it comes to synthesis, it would be this one : [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


It's something like 50€ if I recall, but these will be very well spent as there are all you need to know about synthesis.

Another thing you can't buy is time. You should take 1 out of 3h a day (3h a day is always a great rule, if you follow it rigourously, you will master your art in 10 years), to create a new sound that will be yours.

There is nothing more you can or want do. Asking "how to" do a specific sound is retarded, as you will never create something interesting. It's a sentence which only purpose is to let you believe there are shortcuts. Art is like sports, there are no shortcuts. If you wanna run a marathon, you have to train everyday during 2 years. Run 1h30/day, stretch 45mn, and spend another 45mn on learning how to manage your marathon.

I guess that's it

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Old 19-06-2015, 11:44 AM   #16
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Re: Sound Design in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-CHANG View Post
I find that when I'm producing music, I usually have little trouble coming up with catchy melodies or riffs. It's sound design that is pain for me, and even though I've gotten better at making the sounds I want to hear, often times I find my sounds a bit "rough" to my taste--just not quite there, and this annoys me a lot. I know there's no easy way to just magically get what you want, but what are some things that you guys do when you're trying to design a sound? Are there some tricks that I'm just missing out on or is it just practice makes perfect?
I know I've said this before, but maybe don't make so much of a distinction between "music" and "sound design."

When you are making "catchy melodies and riffs" you are designing sounds. . . ok, at different mensural levels, different psychological engagement, but it's all sound.

Being involved in electronic production especially means you're more interested in sound than traditional music making, because you must unavoidably become more aware of its physics and psychology. The way that electronic music allows composers to work directly with sound is probably the most important thing which distinguishes it from other kinds of music. Well, at least historically.

So, my suggestion is simply to get interested in it. Because you won't get to be really good at electronic production without having some interest in sound design. In my opinion. . .

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Old 20-06-2015, 01:36 PM   #17
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Re: Sound Design in general

I think a lot of people try to keep their composition and sound design quite separate, which I don't necessarily agree with. Certain sounds need to be played in a certain way
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Old 20-06-2015, 07:43 PM   #18
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Re: Sound Design in general

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Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Being involved in electronic production especially means you're more interested in sound than traditional music making
You should talk to Vlantis. :U

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Old 21-06-2015, 12:00 AM   #19
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Re: Sound Design in general

On topic...deconstruct patches that you like who they sound..turn things on and off.see what is going on..what does what..then learn synthesis..what each type does adn how it sounds in and of itself..then start fiddling with filters and unison etc... when first starting it can be frustrating to have a sound in your head but lack the skill set to make them outside the mind. Pick what you want to do first..composition ro sound design..get your composition started and tweak from there...get the compo out of the noggin' first before it goes poof. cuz it will.. sound design like all this audio takes time adn practice..there are no shortcuts..there are no secret tricks..its all time..time spent with the head between the speakers and fingers twiddling..

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Old 21-06-2015, 01:41 AM   #20
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Re: Sound Design in general

Quote:
Originally Posted by oly View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxisaxis View Post
Being involved in electronic production especially means you're more interested in sound than [IN] traditional music making.
You should talk to Vlantis. :U
I think he meant that electronic musicians are more interested in sound than traditional musicians. Which actually makes some sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orray
I think a lot of people try to keep their composition and sound design quite separate, which I don't necessarily agree with. Certain sounds need to be played in a certain way.
This.

This right here.

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