Problems of being a band member
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:12 AM   #1
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Problems of being a band member

So I got along with other guys and started a band. I have known the singer for some time and had the chance to listen to his stuff. He had a solo project going on and wants some of the tunes from that solo project to be part of our bandīs repertoire. The problem is, I donīt seem to come to terms with his approach to music.

For one, he wants to write metal songs where only 3 chords (4 chords max) are used. Each part starts with the same chord and seems to end with the same chord.

Another problem is the fact that he doesnīt realize how unorganized his tunes are. One song has the following structure
Intro(16 bars) Heavy intro (24 bars(!)) Bridge (16 bars) Verses (32 bars), pre chorus (8 bars) Chorus and so on.

Donīt you think that one shouldnīt repeat a part 3 or 5 times, but either 4 or 8 or 2?

I am by no means the kind of guitarist that needs to write down a songīs structure in order to memorize it, but our singerīs songs are so badly structured and so irregular in terms of organisation that is hard for me to identify a reasonable, logical progression. The other thing that confuses me is that each part starts with the same chord i.e. there are no modulations or key changes.

Another embarrasing thing is the fact that his lyrics are...well, childish and lack content. Many sentences make you go like "wtf does this mean", and itīs not because the sentences are too deep to be understood, but because they donīt really make sense. Example

"The great question mark,
I am not a lark"

"the jack of all trades,
ace of spades,
son of hades"

It seems to me that he just looked up words that rhyme and tried to squeeze them in the text. When confronted about the lack of logic of his lyrics, he said that changing the lyrics would mean changing the music and the song structure (which should be changed, anyway).

Itīs this kind of situations that make me wonder if Iīm expecting too much, or am too much of an egocentric asshole that wants things to be his way. When we agreed to start the band, we wanted to do listenable, modern metal that is yet interesting from a musical point of view, so having to deal with issues like this make me wonder if Iīm just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

What do you think? have you experienced something similar?

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Old 01-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #2
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Re: Problems of being a band member

The lyrics kind of remind me of a preteen writing his first rap... or an English class poetry project gone awry

Usually, (and I always do this) people follow a 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32 repetitive bar structure (for any specific section in the song).

However, I believe it was Ozzy Osbourne who said, (don't quote me here... or correct my Ozzy spelling), that following a 3-type repetitive structure adds a more "evil" element to the song and makes it more unique and attractive to the listener. But, you know, he's no Mozart. Besides, it really seems like a lack of knowledge and sound structure to me; it doesn't seem like he's intentionally repeating things 3 times. Plus, 4 repeats sounds full, 3 repeats sounds like it's missing a bar.

Also, using three chords is just plain lazy. When I'm jamming on my guitar, I tend to do that just because it's fun to chug out three chords like a psychopath, but the whole song can't be a friggin breakdown.

The best metal songs have a hugely melodic component to them. Metal is practically Baroque's child, so to throw out interesting melodies to be more "brutal" is just disgusting and distasteful.

I used to be in a few bands, and whenever someone thickheaded tried to pull the band into a stupid direction, (stupid meaning unlistenable and bland, not different), we'd tell the dude to either get with the program, or get the hell out.

Sometimes, bands don't work out because members want to go a different direction. There's no problem with that, the desired sound is not shared by all members, and that's fine. But this is not the case. Your singer is trying to take a beautiful and artful genre and turn it into what many people stereotype it as: "just noise."

Your decision is only yours to make, but I'd personally leave and do my own thing. Which is, ironically, the reason I make EDM now lol.

Also, wtf, "spades" and "Hades" (HAY-DEEZ) do not rhyme.

Hope I helped!

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Old 01-07-2012, 11:32 AM   #3
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Re: Problems of being a band member

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Originally Posted by mischjok View Post
For one, he wants to write metal songs where only 3 chords (4 chords max) are used. Each part starts with the same chord and seems to end with the same chord.
Why? I mean, why?

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Old 01-07-2012, 11:35 AM   #4
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Re: Problems of being a band member

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Why? I mean, why?
Exactly. "There's a million different tonal possibilities, so let's just use three."

Horrible logic.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:35 AM   #5
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Re: Problems of being a band member

It's simple, if you have problems working with him at such an early stage, don't bother, nothing good will come out it.

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Old 01-07-2012, 11:39 AM   #6
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Re: Problems of being a band member

I love music that doesnt' stick to multiples of 4.

Multiples of 4 get boring. little riffs that only happen once, sections that begin and end jarringly, irregular rhythms that are hard to predict... Mmmmm.

And every song having an intro, chorus, verse, etc. is boring. my favorite music is like theme, expansion of the theme, section one, section two, return to theme, section 2 section 3, break, solo section, section 4, section 2, modified outro theme... progressive song structure.

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Old 01-07-2012, 11:43 AM   #7
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghyt wembpang View Post

And every song having an intro, chorus, verse, etc. is boring. my favorite music is like theme, expansion of the theme, section one, section two, return to theme, section 2 section 3, break, solo section, section 4, section 2, modified outro theme... progressive song structure.
Dude, I come from a prog background so I know what you mean. Bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X or Andromeda may have some the craziest song structures going on, but you still can identify where a part begins and where the other ends. It doesnīt matter if the bridge is in 13/16 and the chorus in 5/8, it still sounds organised and concise.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:45 AM   #8
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Thats why we produce with 1 or 2 people... Create the band!


But yea, If you can't talk to him about it then there isn't really anything that can be done

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Old 01-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #9
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Kick him out or quit and start a different band. It's not the end of the world.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:36 PM   #10
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Re: Problems of being a band member

As Vlantis stated: Life is short. Start a new band. Find new inspiring bandmembers and evolve.

Oh, like a friend of mine said jokingly - a tennis player only gets better when he is playing better tennis players.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #11
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Re: Problems of being a band member

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Originally Posted by mischjok View Post

am too much of an egocentric asshole that wants things to be his way.
if he wants to make his solo project material apart of your bands repertoire. he's being the asshole not you. those were really stupid lyrics by the way

start a new band or kick the guy out.

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Old 01-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #12
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Re: Problems of being a band member

This is a very assholish thing to do, but here are the lyrics to one of his songs. Can the English native-speakers and those with a good grasp of the language tell me which parts donīt make sense?


Waiting i stood, under my dark hood
in my black suit, death's my root
there'll be a ark in your hour of dark
the great question mark, i'm not a lark

you'll see
certainly
the end is not funny

apocalypse, the last eclipse
giving the kiss with rotten lips
not a white horse, not a light at the end
of course, welcome to the satanic force

you'll see
certainly
the end is not funny

Chorus:
its the last ride for everybody down the neverlandswaters
i'm used too cries, i'm used too fear
my boat is a ferry to eternal suffer
i'm cold, i'm poisoned, i'm the fairy of death

verses:
they call me the reaper, the hourglass keeper
the broomstick sweeper, living one level deeper
son of hades, master of shades
the ace of spades, Jack of all trades

you'll see
certainly
the end is not funny

chorus
its the last ride for everybody down the neverlandswaters
i'm used too cries, i'm used too fear
my boat is a ferry to eternal suffer
i'm cold, i'm poisoned, i'm the fairy of death



last chorus:
its the last ride for everybody down the neverlandswaters
i'm used too cries, i'm used too fear
my boat is a ferry to eternal suffer
i'm cold, i'm poisoned, i'm the fairy of death
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #13
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Re: Problems of being a band member

^^^ The rhyming is just too obvious, whether it makes sense or not.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:39 PM   #14
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Re: Problems of being a band member

those lyrics will never sound brutal, even if you scream them unintelligably

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Old 01-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #15
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Some of them are sung, some are screamed. They are not supposed to sound brutal, as we are not playing ultra brutal tech metal with doom influences. Nor are we using 8-stringed guitars and drum machines set to play blast beats at 666 BPM.
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Old 01-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #16
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Re: Problems of being a band member

your mate's english isn't worse than early sepultura or kreator

lyrics are kinda lame tho
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:32 PM   #17
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Those lyrics sound like he's trying real hard to write something "good" and that method, as evidenced by the lyrics you posted, usually always turns something out bad.

The shit on your Soundcloud is far superior so in light of that...

Methinks you should move on.

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:32 AM   #18
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Re: Problems of being a band member

^ This. At the very least, if you do want to work with him..encourage him to try to arrange something lyrically with depth. But yeah..as it was mentioned earlier, its like a High School poem gone terribly wrong. Word play and metaphors are neat, and can add a dimension, but it can get crazy and out of control too.

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:41 AM   #19
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Re: Problems of being a band member

High School poem gone wrong is a perfect description of what's going on there.

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:50 AM   #20
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Re: Problems of being a band member

Its like a bad Slayer song. There is nothing at all that anyone could identify or relate to this on any level. (maybe I am being a bit critical.) But I cant help to think that he is only writing this to sound "cool" by pulling the dark/evil theme. I don't know if its my age or what, but to hear these lyrics in a 3 chord thrash would probably make me want to quit listening by the end of the first verse. Ok, I am finished now.

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