Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:08 PM   #1
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Building a feedback/delay that gets louder before fading out

Hi there...

I was think whether I would be able to set up a delay effect so that the echos get louder before the get softer... "dah dah dah dah dah dah dah" if you will... with only the first "dah" entering the effect chain.

A normal delay with feedback will just get softer "dah dah dah dah"

I can build the feedback loop myself (like a dub delay) and add some gain so each feedback cycle will get louder and I can even add a limiter to keep things from going out of hand.

But I cant imagine how I would get a number of echos that become louder followed by things fading out again.

I can cut and slice it with samples alright, but I want something that can be played live

Any clues? (I'm in Ableton but an idea from most any program or hardware setup should be translatable)

-lars

Last edited by VoidPointer; 07-04-2016 at 02:28 PM..

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Old 06-04-2016, 10:18 PM   #2
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Can't you just automate the feedback to increase until you want the delay to start getting quiter? Also automate the send amount so only the first "dah" enters the delay?

I do this with guitar pedals and other hardware delay all the time...the only thing I do differently is the "dahs" continue to feed the delay as I turn up the feedback. Should still work though???

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Old 06-04-2016, 10:39 PM   #3
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Hmm... but if I automate it, wouldn't I have to know in advance where to automate it? I specifically would want to avoid drawing anything but want to have this applied to any sound that enters the chain at the time it arrives there...

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Old 06-04-2016, 10:41 PM   #4
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Quote:
Originally Posted by relic View Post
Can't you just automate the feedback to increase until you want the delay to start getting quiter?
This.

Automate by hand or modulate the feedback (perhaps mix level as well, to taste) with an LFO or something.

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Old 06-04-2016, 10:43 PM   #5
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

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Originally Posted by VoidPointer View Post
Hmm... but if I automate it, wouldn't I have to know in advance where to automate it?
You could use an envelope follower then probably.

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Old 06-04-2016, 10:58 PM   #6
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

In a mixer you could connect the send to the delay and then the delay to a different channel
Then send the delay back into itself using that channel's send
Careful it gets out of control but it will get louder until you cut out the send
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:08 PM   #7
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

I have to give teh approach with the envelope follower a try, that sounds promising.

I also figured something out: this is sort of cheep but works: for the number of raising echos I want, I just repeat a delay (no feedback 50% wet/dry) and a gain (+9db) and at the end, a delay with feedback that creates the "fade out"

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Old 06-04-2016, 11:21 PM   #8
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Well if you want to do it live just get a MIDI controller and map the mix and feedback to knobs. Done. Easy peasy. That is literally what I do with hardware to achieve this affect.

I usually try to use delays that are "infinite" when the feedback is at 100%. Meaning that even if the source sound (the "dah") gets muted, the feedback goes on at infinitely. You can get a nice wall of sound effect this way. Then when you turn down the feedback to a certain point you get the trailing echoes.

Try doing some searches on Dub Reggae delay techniques. What jbvbd493 said is a cool idea too.

Also. Use a limiter! Protect your ears, headphones, speakers, etc. I don't know for sure, but I think the two hardware delays I use have internal limiters of some kind so shit doesn't get out of control ;p But I will often use a cheap compressor out of the box to control feedback from getting crazy.

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Old 07-04-2016, 12:27 AM   #9
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Feed your sound to separate delay channel with starting feedback at 0%. Have two lfos on delay channel,one is square and another is triangle (need to be key synced). On the note trigger get squared lfo turn feedback to 100%, and let your triangle lfo control volume automation of your feedback channel. Play with lfo's speed and you will get what you need.
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Old 07-04-2016, 03:00 AM   #10
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Multiple delays set in series will do the trick, all set to like 50% mix or something

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Old 07-04-2016, 10:31 AM   #11
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

Quote:
Originally Posted by relic View Post
Can't you just automate the feedback to increase until you want the delay to start getting quiter? Also automate the send amount so only the first "dah" enters the delay?

I do this with guitar pedals and other hardware delay all the time...the only thing I do differently is the "dahs" continue to feed the delay as I turn up the feedback. Should still work though???
It would actually be automating dry/wet to increase and ideally your feedback can remain constant (above 60% at least -- though I generally automate that potentiometer to increase rapidly within the final couple of seconds before the sample/sequence stops so it's less convoluted)

then just automate the wet downward in time where desired.
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Old 08-04-2016, 06:29 PM   #12
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Re: Building a feedback/delay that gets laouder before fading out

you can achieve this type of thing using freeware KarmaFX DeeLay.
The main parameter is the "regen" which you set high to get a crescendo if the feedback is high enough.
It sounds better with the filter options and those also help to keep the signal under control.

To keep it from overloading in amplitude, either turn down the feedback parameter and/or the regen parameter or both.
Then it will fade out.

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