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Old 08-09-2013, 11:50 PM   #21
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Very cool! Maybe I'll make them into some sort of artwork. Dual function!

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Old 10-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #22
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

I alwaaays get confused, some ppl say that the kick space is between 20 - 50 hz so you should leave space for that, but other ppl say that is for the bass. It is quite confusin, in my mixes i try to leave those freqcuencys clean for the kick but im not an expert
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #23
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

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Originally Posted by YvesB View Post
I alwaaays get confused, some ppl say that the kick space is between 20 - 50 hz so you should leave space for that, but other ppl say that is for the bass. It is quite confusin, in my mixes i try to leave those freqcuencys clean for the kick but im not an expert
The Kick and the Bass pretty much occupy the same frequencies, but it all comes down to what kick you are using, and how you want your bass to sound. If both of your kick and bass have really strong sub frequencies (30-70hz), then maybe choose a different kick drum. It's okay to use a kick drum that has these frequencies, as long as they are not dominating the sub region. Having extreme cutoff's for your kick and bass can work, but its better to have both instruments sitting in the same area harmoniously. This can be achieved by tuning your kick drum to the same scale as you bass and some sidechain compression and buss compression as i stated earlier.
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Old 13-09-2013, 12:34 AM   #24
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Thanks for the help bro!

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Old 09-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #25
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Thank you! Very useful.
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Old 28-12-2013, 12:36 PM   #26
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Nice thats useful to visualize it
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:31 AM   #27
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

this is awesome. Something i do with other tracks as well is subtractive EQing. Find the peaks in a track and lower those frequcies in other tracks to make them stand out even more.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:27 AM   #28
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

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Originally Posted by Skippit View Post
EQ
Next, you may want to EQ out some frequencies for each sound.
You could...
High Cut the Bass at 30hz
High Cut the Kick at 70hz
Low Cut the Bass at around 600hz
The rest is down to warmth, if you have a warm sounding bass, then take out the frequencies between 100-300 of the kick drum, or vice versa.

Side-chain
Next you can side-chain your Kick Drum to the Bass, so that the attack transient of the Kick Drum forces the Bass to dip down in volume slightly. This way, the punch of the Kick, won't be conflicting with the depth of the Bass. To put side-chain compression simply...
Send the kick to an aux channel.
Mute that aux channel.
Put a compressor onto the bass.
Enable the compressors side-chain, and set it to the aux channel the kick is being sent too.
Now as you increase the threshold of the compressor, the bass will dip down when the kick is being played.
By increasing the ratio, knee and threshold, it will dip harder, and by changing the envelope settings (Attack/Release) it will react faster or slower.

I don't think I saw this in the post, but another rule of thumb to keep in mind is to have either a long kick/short bass or a short kick/long bass. Usually not a good idea to have both kick and bass to be long.

Another helpful EQ/Sidechain trick is to use Selective Bandwidth Ducking. It's basically a mix of EQ and side chaining. This is especially useful if you decide you want to have both a long kick and a long bass (or the kick and bass often hit at the same time). For example, say you have a heavy/long kick with significant sub freq. material (~60 Hz) and you want to make room for a sine wave baseline that primarily sits in the 45-70 Hz range. The idea is to duck just the 45-70 Hz range of the kick every time the bass hits making room for the bass and keeping the majority of the sonic spectrum of the kick in the mix.

One way to do this (the way I do it in Logic 9) is to assign the output (not a send) of the kick to a bus (say bus 1) with bus 1 outputting to your main outs. Then, make a duplicate bus with the same input and outputs as bus 1 (when you play the kick there should be signal sending to both of these buses). Now create a SEND on the sub bass track and send it to say bus 2 with bus 2 having no output (this will be our Sidechain bus). Now on the duplicate bus 1 assign three plugins in this order (linear phase eq, gain, noise gate). Set the linear phase eq with just hi/lo cuts with 48 db slopes and adjust the cuts to isolate the 45-70 Hz region. Set the gain plug so that it is left and right phase inverted. Set noise gate at -100 db threshold, -100 db reduction, 0ms attack, decay and release, 0ms lookahead, 0 db hysteresis, and set the side chain input (top right corner) as bus 2 (the bass bus).

Essentially, what's happening is whenever the bass hits this opens up the noise gate to allow the duplicate kick signal to pass through (only the 45-70 Hz signal passes through because of the linear phase eq). However, this duplicate signal is also phase flipped via the gain plug. When mixed with the original kick signal from the other bus 1, this causes 100% phase cancellation of only the isolated region (45-70 Hz) via the linear phase eq. The amount of cancellation can also be attenuated by altering the duplicate bus 1's fader (decreasing duplicate bus 1's volume decreases the amount of ducking that is being done).

I want to give credit to fader8 over at logicpro.com as this was originally his idea and who I learned the trick from.
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:42 AM   #29
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Great post. Something like this but for every general instrumentation in a song would be super helpful, although I'm sure someone's done that already, perhaps even on here.
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Old 09-05-2014, 11:21 AM   #30
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Very useful article article. Thank you for sharing!
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:29 AM   #31
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

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Originally Posted by Oatbag View Post
How often do you see the drummer in any band tuning his bass drum to better compliment the bass player? Usually its tuned to the desired sound - not to a specific frequency.
Now if you are a timpani player in an orchestra......
All the time. I've never seen a drummer tune the kick to a specific frequency like 110hz. That's silly. But the pitch of a tuned drum is definitely going to have a harmonic relationship to the rest of the composition.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:51 PM   #32
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Acoustic drums an electronic have completely different sounds. Acoustic have this weird throbby undefined sound, I doubt tuning them would make much of a difference anyway.

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Old 10-05-2014, 10:36 PM   #33
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Drum tone is incredibly important n an acoustic setting( electronic for that matter)..from material choice of the kit..to the skin...to the hardware.. to the stick..to mic.. it all goes into this one organic ralationship with the rest of the kit..the big tw Kick and Snare need to have a cohesive sound together..and a little tuning goes a long way..expecially if you do not have a drum closet full of kits and spares. It the same for electronic..both worlds coexist as tone .. a kit has t work together n matter what it is. What do you think EQing is?...your tuning it....

Having reference charts is a great starting point..until you trust your ears.

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Old 11-05-2014, 07:33 PM   #34
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

very nice! thank you
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Old 30-11-2014, 02:29 AM   #35
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

cool thanks
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:47 AM   #36
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

I'm very happy to have helped out alot of you!
now maybe you can help me too
Seems i've made it to the finals of Rood FM DJ 2014!
I'd really appreciate if you could vote for me here!

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:09 AM   #37
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippit View Post
The Kick and the Bass share the same frequencies, so there are a few things you can do to help them share the same space, without causing too much conflict and phase issues.
They don't really. As a general rule, the main energy in a kick is around the 110 Hz and in the bass it's around 250Hz. So a kick and a bass can sit together relatively easy by identifying the specific frequencies in each signal and reducing them in the other. As for the sub, it depends on what you want to occupy that space. Yes, you can open up the sub on a kick, but once you start going below 80Hz, it's not really going to have an impact on the kick. If anything, it could make reduce its impact.

So if you really wanted your kick and your bass both occupying the sub-spectrum, then you're probably better off with a HPF on the kick and then run a sub-oscillator tuned to the pitch of the kick and modulated to its amplitude. Much tighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippit View Post
Side-chain
Next you can side-chain your Kick Drum to the Bass, so that the attack transient of the Kick Drum forces the Bass to dip down in volume slightly. This way, the punch of the Kick, won't be conflicting with the depth of the Bass. To put side-chain compression simply...
Great advice. Ducking is a really valuable technique and can be just as effective as EQ for sculpting a mix. This doesn't just apply to kicks. You can use this technique to deal with any overlapping signals. For example, lead/pad and a vocal. Duck the pads to the vocal with really fast attack/release, high threshold, medium ratio. That way, every time the vocal sings your pads will be very slightly attenuated, giving the vocal some room to breathe without reducing the impact of either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippit View Post
Bus Compression
Now your Kick and Bass are working along side each other, you can "glue" the two instruments together using Bus Compression. Simply set the output of both instruments to a bus, then compress the signal using some medium settings, then adjust to taste.
Medium settings would only reduce the signal by 2-4db, and have a gain make-up of 2-4db as well.
I would never advise bussing the kick and the bass together like this. If you have good gain staging in each signal, bussing them together and squashing them is just going to undo that work and/or create more problems. A kick and a bass sound tight when they are properly separated. If you're going to buss your kick with anything, it should be with the rest of the drum track. If we were following your example we'd have three or four layers of compression with signals acting upon each other at various stages. The result would be some very uneven gain reduction and a signal with very little dynamics.

Remember, ratios/thresholds/attacks and releases have an additive effect across the signal chain. If you have a 4:1, a 2:1 and another 4:1 compressor, the gross effect is not going to be 32:1. But there will be times where this level of gain reduction will be present. Unless you are dealing with very high thresholds, I would never advise having ratios in a chain set so high. Ultimately, you want the compressor to be applying gain reductions at every time a signal is present. The average amount of gain reduction isn't as important as the difference between the minimum and maximum (aka dynamic range). Anyway, better left for another thread ;-)
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:39 PM   #38
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Quote:
EQ
Next, you may want to EQ out some frequencies for each sound.
You could...
High Cut the Bass at 30hz
High Cut the Kick at 70hz
Low Cut the Bass at around 600hz
The rest is down to warmth, if you have a warm sounding bass, then take out the frequencies between 100-300 of the kick drum, or vice versa.
You might want to change cut to pass.

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Old 04-12-2014, 09:20 PM   #39
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

Wow, kinda puts a new perspective. I Usually slighly sidechain the bass to the kick (like it's not even noticeable, it's really just a preventive measure, incase the bass wants to go nuts...) Then I highpass everything that hits the lower frequencies (around 55hz, depends, but always around there)... aaaand then I overcomplicate my life by making a kick that cuts off the highs and tie it to the sub... so when I finally master the track I've got 2 WAV files, the main track and the kick sub and bass sub track.

I think I'm just overcomplicating myself for something that apparently can be done quite easily xD

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Old 05-12-2014, 10:54 AM   #40
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Re: Mixing Kick and Bass

I think multiband comp can really help in getting kick and bass sit well together. That way you can comp the bass with lows of kick a bit while maintaining the mids of the kick. Couple that with some side chaining of bass controlled by kick.

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