[Kozmotron]

Just out of curiosity and personal attempt to comprehending the musical style and mindset, is there anyone on here who has a good understanding of the social and/or political view of industrial music?

All I know outside of such is that industrial music contains an aim to make people aware of the flaws and sins of humanity, to evoke questioning of the world, to raise awareness of the psychological and technological manipulation and control.

No opinions please, and I'm not a heavily political individual myself, but I love industrial and post-industrial music and I just want to know the facts of this genre's standpoint on the political or societal subject. Or did/do industrial musicians not have one..? What was/is their intention or beliefs on society?

[liquid_air]

Things are fucked, as you diagnosed already.

Personally, I'm not sure the political message is what matters most or what came first. The genre, just by how it presents itself sonically, just doesn't lend itself well to lyrics that evoke a touchy feely kind of vibe. It's like a Death Metal band making a love song. And, in another analogy to the Metal genre, over time it settled into a certain way of doing things and to stand out, topics covered became more "edgy". Case in point: Slayer's Angel of Death and on the other end acts like Feindflug with Nazi innuendos or SITD's Richtfest. Some EBM bands did enjoy a dubious popularity with right wing youths, so that didn't help, same as with Death metal and satanic cults. For the most part, I think it's a deliberate provocation used for shock effect, as opposed to a genuine political or religious statement. Rammstein did this this quite effectively. I'm thinking that more often than not, it's likely an act. I really hope it's an act, as some of the lyrics are a bit mental.

[Kozmotron]

Originally Posted by liquid_air

Things are fucked, as you diagnosed already.

Personally, I'm not sure the political message is what matters most or what came first. The genre, just by how it presents itself sonically, just doesn't lend itself well to lyrics that evoke a touchy feely kind of vibe. It's like a Death Metal band making a love song. And, in another analogy to the Metal genre, over time it settled into a certain way of doing things and to stand out, topics covered became more "edgy". Case in point: Slayer's Angel of Death and on the other end acts like Feindflug with Nazi innuendos or SITD's Richtfest. Some EBM bands did enjoy a dubious popularity with right wing youths, so that didn't help, same as with Death metal and satanic cults. For the most part, I think it's a deliberate provocation used for shock effect, as opposed to a genuine political or religious statement. Rammstein did this this quite effectively. I'm thinking that more often than not, it's likely an act. I really hope it's an act, as some of the lyrics are a bit mental.

So, perhaps industrial musicians may not really be greatly political? (if it's just bringing attention to, say, the flaws of politics, rather than saying how society *should* be?)
Because that might make sense if that's the case, given the methods industrial artists have used to portray other controversial or explicit topics (like when an industrial artist whose lyrics in a song of theirs revolve around sexism or fascism as if they like/support it, but in reality or outside of their musical identities they don't genuinely support it).

Also, then of musicians of industrial and post-industrial music who have included any political references or messages in their songs: have they illustrated examples of such from both extreme political parties (or from any political standpoint), or mostly from one? (if you know, because I haven't encountered any political references, or if any I don't usually pay attention to them..)

[Harko City]

A general political topic in industrial sliced music is those who are in power abuse it. To achieve or retain its hold on the subservient, there is no depths too low; nothing those power mongers won't do. Though industrial's leaning in a spectrum since can be anything. Mostly what I hear is criticism of a consumer based system. Though I'm not claiming that is the majority. I'm curious as to what your interest is in this. Is this a roundabout way to get information on a more specific question?

[Artificer]

It's a style of music. You might as well be asking about the sociopolitical manifesto of Baroque Classical or Doo Wop.

It entirely depends on the artist in question, and then sometimes the specific album or song.

[Daggit]

Kozmotron, I think you already have the correct idea about industrial from your first post.
I would just add that not all industrial music is alike; Rammstein and KMFDM/MDFMK are very different from each other. KMFDM at times is extremely political in a human-rights liberation type of way similar to what you described, while Front Line Assembly's "Tactical Neural Implant" is almost a verbatim documentary of Project BlueBird / Project MKULTRA horrors and crimes against humanity in terms of the related folklore as lyrics. The thing is, they are NOT advocating for war crimes, they are describing the awareness of the ideas so that we are not all merely asleep and ready for mass hypnosis. It's kind of an acknowledgement of the suffering and tragedy and insanity so that we can resolve it better. Some stuff is dancey, but I'd say the dancey fun vibes of industrial helps to make the lyrics more tolerable. Without any fun feeling, it would simply be auditory torture or horror music to listen to it. Thankfully, Industrial is deeper than that. Personally, I consider Industrial music and related industries as valuable as the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act).

I don't know much about Rammstein, but "Du Hast Me" seemed pretty weak and just an excuse for drama. So I never got into them. The music didn't seem to have much syncopation either. I think the best industrial pushes music boundaries in terms of syncopation and rhythmic production and overall sound design.

[Kozmotron]

Originally Posted by Harko City

A general political topic in industrial sliced music is those who are in power abuse it. To achieve or retain its hold on the subservient, there is no depths too low; nothing those power mongers won't do. Though industrial's leaning in a spectrum since can be anything. Mostly what I hear is criticism of a consumer based system. Though I'm not claiming that is the majority. I'm curious as to what your interest is in this. Is this a roundabout way to get information on a more specific question?

I suppose industrial music (along with just merely bringing to attention of the flaws in politics than specifically insinuating of having a POV from a particular party) has more of a social viewpoint than political, then? it kind of seems that way..

Yes, it's "anti-music", I know it's supposed to be made outside of any standards or structure of traditional (rock) music and carry any lyrical content that's purely explicit/uncensored.. And I understand it's like a message to the public of leaving a remark on every "current" society (or how you mentioned, a "consumer based system").

Well, aiming for nothing more in particular, I'm just curious about what others think industrial music comprises of from a social or political angle. And having admiration for music in general, I just like to try comprehending what a genre is or its purposes -- industrial music, especially, because of its outstanding history of its creation and intention(s) of creation, whereas most other electronic genres wouldn't have as much of a powerful reason (besides some Post-Industrial genres that still retain Industrial's aim in whatever manner).

[aikighost]

Totally depends on the artist and the era. Much of the best industrial is about the military industrial complexes grip on power and where it will lead ultimately. But some of it is totally apolitical and just about making interesting noise.

[Automageddon]

If you're not a Left-wing Nazi sympathiser with Anarchist and Socialist sympathies then Industrial is not for you.

[Kozmotron]

Originally Posted by Daggit

Kozmotron, I think you already have the correct idea about industrial from your first post.
I would just add that not all industrial music is alike; Rammstein and KMFDM/MDFMK are very different from each other. KMFDM at times is extremely political in a human-rights liberation type of way similar to what you described, while Front Line Assembly's "Tactical Neural Implant" is almost a verbatim documentary of Project BlueBird / Project MKULTRA horrors and crimes against humanity in terms of the related folklore as lyrics. The thing is, they are NOT advocating for war crimes, they are describing the awareness of the ideas so that we are not all merely asleep and ready for mass hypnosis. It's kind of an acknowledgement of the suffering and tragedy and insanity so that we can resolve it better. Some stuff is dancey, but I'd say the dancey fun vibes of industrial helps to make the lyrics more tolerable. Without any fun feeling, it would simply be auditory torture or horror music to listen to it. Thankfully, Industrial is deeper than that. Personally, I consider Industrial music and related industries as valuable as the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act).

I don't know much about Rammstein, but "Du Hast Me" seemed pretty weak and just an excuse for drama. So I never got into them. The music didn't seem to have much syncopation either. I think the best industrial pushes music boundaries in terms of syncopation and rhythmic production and overall sound design.

Yes, I don't doubt there are some Industrial and some Post-Industrial artists that don't cover all exactly the same type of message; I was asking about the genre as a whole though, as a general concept.

The artists/groups you bring up as examples are more Post-Industrial than just Industrial (considerably Industrial Metal and Electro-Industrial), so those definitely have more elements involved in terms of sound (heavy metal influences or more dance-oriented synthesized influences for these such Post-Industrial styles), but all the same, I know they also carry much of the original messages or goal as Industrial music, so I get what you're saying~
Such purpose has always a reason to be brought up in music as society or humanity as a whole remains to have many issues, so of course many Post-Industrial groups still cover the aim to bring such to awareness and make people think about it and do something about it (disregarding there otherwise being some Post-Industrial groups that just make instrumental songs or lyrical themes of dancing or other).

[Kozmotron]

Originally Posted by aikighost

Totally depends on the artist and the era. Much of the best industrial is about the military industrial complexes grip on power and where it will lead ultimately. But some of it is totally apolitical and just about making interesting noise.

I totally agree.

[Kozmotron]

Originally Posted by Automageddon

If you're not a Left-wing Nazi sympathiser with Anarchist and Socialist sympathies then Industrial is not for you.

Funny thing is, I'm far from that kind of standpoint, but I genuinely enjoy Industrial/Post-Industrial music. honestly, sometimes any music I listen to I just enjoy for the musical/sound aspects over the lyrical content or themes (unless a song is notably really offensive, but it depends). But I'm more of a fan of Post-Industrial music than the original, but I just think it's interesting how Industrial music formed and what it was initially aimed to do.

Also, I disagree with Industrial having much of an association with anarchist or socialist sorts of perspectives, as I've found the genre to be more about raising awareness of the sins and corruptions of society and humanity (rather than actually supporting such or desiring corruption/chaos).

[Automageddon]

It was just a joke, political ambiguity and flirtation withe right wing has always played a big role in certain types of Industrial, usually in the most extreme fringes, like power-electronics, and that's where you can easily find anarchism and socialism.

[relic]

No. But I can summarize the political stance of House music: "Your eyes are jiggling in their sockets? Have another E!"

[candlesayshi]

Originally Posted by Kozmotron

Also, I disagree with Industrial having much of an association with anarchist or socialist sorts of perspectives

Throbbing Gristle (and by extension, Industrial Records) was ran as a horizontally-managed co-op where all income was shared equally and decisions made by consensus with work divided according to everyone's skills and abilities.

[lolirl]

As Auto suggested, I think a lot of the ideas would now just be regarded as early trolling.
These people were button-pushers, line-steppers, post-punks and artists doing whatever the fuck they wanted and they didn't give a shit who was watching/listening and how offended they may or may not be for the wrong or right reasons.

[envelope3]

Things aren't ok. They're going to get way worse. Put on the gimp mask, I'm Beetlejuice, Bend over.

That's what I got from it anyways. It's kind of a so far left you are right political thing w/masks.

[Vault O)))]

Originally Posted by lolirl

As Auto suggested, I think a lot of the ideas would now just be regarded as early trolling.
These people were button-pushers, line-steppers, post-punks and artists doing whatever the fuck they wanted and they didn't give a shit who was watching/listening and how offended they may or may not be for the wrong or right reasons.

I agree with this, and I think it's even more blatantly obvious with earlier power electronics. Things only got weird when people started pretending to 'like' it (myself included, it's normal to me now).

[lolirl]

I think a lot of people identified with an attitude.

[thom]

no that would rap


fuck the police etc...