[House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek
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Old 22-02-2018, 12:44 AM   #1
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[House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

Hi,
this is my new track. I still suck at mixing. I just eq and compress kick - hope at least it sounds better than in previous stuff. And it really sounds like shit on the speakers, especially those over-delayed vocals. I would really appreciate some negative feedback. And those weird sounds are two cats talking to each other
Thanks!

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Old 22-02-2018, 12:06 PM   #2
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

The kick is eating all your low end, It sounds flat and distorted. You also have what sounds like a double bass being played 2 octaves below it's natural bass range as a sub bass, which also sounds distorted. These 2 elements do not sit with the rest of the track. May I ask, why you felt the need to compress and EQ the kick, and did the kick come from a sample pack? Sorry for being blunt, but it could be a nice little bit of funky house with a bit of work on the composition.

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Old 22-02-2018, 03:09 PM   #3
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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The kick is eating all your low end, It sounds flat and distorted. You also have what sounds like a double bass being played 2 octaves below it's natural bass range as a sub bass, which also sounds distorted. These 2 elements do not sit with the rest of the track. May I ask, why you felt the need to compress and EQ the kick, and did the kick come from a sample pack? Sorry for being blunt, but it could be a nice little bit of funky house with a bit of work on the composition.
Thanks for the comment! So, I used the kick from some random lo-fi pack and then use mono utility, eq8 and compressor. Should it be better to make it by myself? And I pitched down the bass -2 - hmm, probably it sounded deeper. You are right - it sounds too distorted. I need to read more about how to use them properly...
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Old 22-02-2018, 05:50 PM   #4
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Thanks for the comment! So, I used the kick from some random lo-fi pack and then use mono utility, eq8 and compressor. Should it be better to make it by myself? And I pitched down the bass -2 - hmm, probably it sounded deeper. You are right - it sounds too distorted. I need to read more about how to use them properly...
What you have to keep in mind with sample packs, is that quite often things get EQed and compressed when they are being recorded for the pack. I'm personally not a fan of putting compression on single elements, unless there's a dynamics problem in say (a vocal). Kicks don't have a great deal of dynamics in the first place. Abletons big problem is it not having mono tracks or proper panning, so here are a couple of vids to help you with that. The first tells you the best way to make mono tracks with the utility tool in Ableton, and the second goes into more detail about stereo width and proper panning. As for EQ and compression, if you choose your source carefully, you really shouldn't need it much.

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Old 22-02-2018, 11:00 PM   #5
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

I watched the links, thanks, it is very useful! So I use Utility to get kick in mono. I am not sure now about other instruments. As I understand from videos: other percussive instruments go stereo and bass - too?
Or the full track should go in mono? I am starting the Ableton bundle on House production (there was some crazy discount from 480$ to 47$) so I will learn all those stuff soon I hope...
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Old 23-02-2018, 12:01 AM   #6
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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need to read more about how to use them properly...
Glad to see the motivation thumping there
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Old 23-02-2018, 12:07 AM   #7
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Glad to see the motivation thumping there
Yeah, I am using Ableton from December so this is the right moment to finally learn it deeper. And I was struggling to find a suitable tutorial pack, I did not like the overproduced sound of most of them but I found the right one at the good price today, yay!
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Old 23-02-2018, 03:45 AM   #8
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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I watched the links, thanks, it is very useful! So I use Utility to get kick in mono. I am not sure now about other instruments. As I understand from videos: other percussive instruments go stereo and bass - too?
Or the full track should go in mono? I am starting the Ableton bundle on House production (there was some crazy discount from 480$ to 47$) so I will learn all those stuff soon I hope...
You will need to watch these videos a few times to fully understand them, but here are a couple of points: Any instrument can be mono or stereo, as it really depends on the track. For dance music, I usually record my bass into a mono track. as i want it driving up the centre of my track, and the same for the kick. These are panned dead centre. As I use an RM1x or Electribe 2 for percussion, which use mono samples a can pan percussion sounds to where I want them. If I want width, I add FX to them like reverb, delay, or chorus after I'm happy with placement. However if I.m doing a Darkwave, Coldwave or Synthwave style track, I might use a stereo bass, but the kick stays mono.

As to what the video is saying about the utility tool to make a mono track. Don't use the spread function to mono a sound, use either the left or the right channel as a mono source.
The whole track to mono, is to check your overall mix. When you listen in mono, you should still be able to hear all the elements of your track quite clearly. If something disappears, then there is a problem with it. Just remember that it will sound different, but you should still be able to hear the tracks elements. You can pick up those little mono USB/Bluetooth speakers cheap to check final mixes on.

Here's a link to the stereo tool that JC was using in the Point Blank video. It's free, but a very useful tool to have: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

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Old 23-02-2018, 08:09 AM   #9
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

I agree with the previous replies, the kick is a bit flat and it doesn't do much for me. When the slap bass starts back up, it's not balanced well with the kick. Everything in the song seems a bit washed out, and it sounds good on the background synth but not the other synths. IMO, there's a lot of wasted potential with the background chord.

Before the kick begins, I like the high-end perc that starts at 0:16 but it seems a bit chaotic before that, which may be an artistic choice but when it comes down to it, you need to capture the attention of the listener within the first few seconds or most people will skip to the next song.

The transition at 0:31 is a bit unexpected and harsh, IMO you should keep some of the percussive elements going and fade them out instead of cutting it off abruptly. I like the added percussion going forward but the guitar beginning at 0:46 is flat, it sounds unnatural and just feels like it's drawing out that part of the song longer than it should be drawn out. When the slap bass begins, it feels like there's no reason for it to be happening. The only element that supports it is the background chord but even then, it's a weak foundation.

With those sort of vocals, you really need a bouncing kick or it's just annoying. The vocals don't add anything to the song, they're not side-chained and they don't groove well.

In my experience, I've learned that every individual element of a song must flow smoothly with every other element of the song with regard to mixing, and also be strong enough to stand on its own. Adding more stuff to a song isn't as important as improving the fidelity of what's already there. Some of the best music is made with only one instrument.

Overall, great work for someone who's only been using Ableton since last December, and I'd like to listen to more of your music.

PS. I won't presume to tell you how to compress your instruments, but as a general rule for me, I never compress anything individually. I might compress a kick but that's about it. Instead, I manipulate the audio fidelity through myriad other ways, usually involving frequency manipulation rather than compression. I don't know all the technical terms for it but I always prefer to take more from a sound source directly rather than attempt to make it sound louder.

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Old 23-02-2018, 11:52 AM   #10
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

Nice! Cool bass lines and electric piano sequences. The track is well arranged. Keeps being interesting. They vocal samples are pretty cool too.

I'm not a fan of the theory that every music composer needs to be a perfect sound engineer. Why don't we leave that job to a mastering man?
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Old 23-02-2018, 03:00 PM   #11
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Why don't we leave that job to a mastering man?
It can't be that hard...
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Old 23-02-2018, 03:33 PM   #12
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

Yeah. I usually do it myself, but there is always tons of work you can do to the sound and there are some sound engineer artists who specialise only in that and it is hard to beat them. I myself like only to focus on the work of art itself, not being interested much in all the mastering make-up stuff.
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Old 23-02-2018, 04:11 PM   #13
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

Thanks for your help and comments!
I myself was raised on totally non-mastered music - Polish punk rock and old school, psycho-rap - and It is hard for me to get used to standards of new music, where everything is too clean. But I know, that to get the intended effect, you need a knowledge. Sure, sometimes, by accident you can make something amazing. In making House all those mastering stuff is important but I really don't think that in Chicago or NY anyone thought about it in the '80. Nowadays, the knowledge is needed because If I want to get the sound of '80 I just can't obtain it by using Ableton as it would sound fake. This kind of music was made on analog synths and machines and the knowledge I would like to get is the getting the raw dirty sound with the use of this programme. It is really hard to make this raw kind of stuff as all tutorials are focused on getting everything so clean :/.
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Old 23-02-2018, 05:24 PM   #14
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Thanks for your help and comments!
I myself was raised on totally non-mastered music - Polish punk rock and old school, psycho-rap - and It is hard for me to get used to standards of new music, where everything is too clean. But I know, that to get the intended effect, you need a knowledge. Sure, sometimes, by accident you can make something amazing. In making House all those mastering stuff is important but I really don't think that in Chicago or NY anyone thought about it in the '80. Nowadays, the knowledge is needed because If I want to get the sound of '80 I just can't obtain it by using Ableton as it would sound fake. This kind of music was made on analog synths and machines and the knowledge I would like to get is the getting the raw dirty sound with the use of this programme. It is really hard to make this raw kind of stuff as all tutorials are focused on getting everything so clean :/.
Like you, I am not a fan of that clean sound. One of the reasons I stopped using a DAW, and moved to hardware. I have a piece of hardware that is perfect for the sound that you are trying to achieve. It's an old groove box from the late 90's early 2000. Most people don't like them because of the sounds are somewhat dated. so they can be found quite cheap. I also know that one of the guys on this forum has one he doesn't use. He referred to it being out the back near where the cats go for a pee, and hasn't used it for a couple of years, so he would probably sell it. I got mine about 2 years ago for the price of a Korg Volca FM. Here are a couple of videos. The 1st one is one of the videos that after watching some of his other stuff made my mind up to get one. The second is some Polish techno. A bit short though,

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Old 23-02-2018, 08:03 PM   #15
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

Thanks! I really love this sound. I would like to invest some money in old-school hardware but I am still lacking knowledge about it. I saw on eBay there is a couple of RMX1Z. I will try to dig about it this weekend to find something. It is at around 200. There is not so many on the market so maybe I should just buy old stuff when they are not so expensive
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Old 24-02-2018, 01:11 AM   #16
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Thanks! I really love this sound. I would like to invest some money in old-school hardware but I am still lacking knowledge about it. I saw on eBay there is a couple of RMX1Z. I will try to dig about it this weekend to find something. It is at around 200. There is not so many on the market so maybe I should just buy old stuff when they are not so expensive
Like I said one of the guys on IDMF has one that he hasn't used for a long time. I'm not sure of what condition it is in. He's in Germany, so shipping would not be a problem. If you are really interested, let me know and I'll ask him about it. They are great. I use mine more as a sequencer for my other hardware, but still use the on-board drums, FX and pads often. It depends on the track.

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Old 24-02-2018, 03:34 AM   #17
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Like I said one of the guys on IDMF has one that he hasn't used for a long time. I'm not sure of what condition it is in. He's in Germany, so shipping would not be a problem. If you are really interested, let me know and I'll ask him about it. They are great. I use mine more as a sequencer for my other hardware, but still use the on-board drums, FX and pads often. It depends on the track.
Sure, I would be interested, judging on what you can do with that!

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Old 24-02-2018, 01:09 PM   #18
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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Sure, I would be interested, judging on what you can do with that!

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Sorry my bad. The guy with the RM1x on here is from Canada. so not sure how easy or how much shipping would be. I can still contact him and ask him if that's not a problem for you.

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Old 25-02-2018, 12:39 AM   #19
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

O kurwa! This is how house music sounds underwater! That's a long discussion going here but tl;dr. Also, I'm allergic to house music. My thoughts: too much of low-end and layers clash together very often. Even a more dirty old-school sound kind of asks for more clarity in that section of frequencies because lows just gives that direct impact and energy to a dancefloor in general. If you keep that bassline more isolated I would work much better. Track it kind of clipping too, isnt' it?

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Old 25-02-2018, 11:22 PM   #20
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Re: [House] PPNDP - Atencyjny kotek

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O kurwa! This is how house music sounds underwater! That's a long discussion going here but tl;dr. Also, I'm allergic to house music. My thoughts: too much of low-end and layers clash together very often. Even a more dirty old-school sound kind of asks for more clarity in that section of frequencies because lows just gives that direct impact and energy to a dancefloor in general. If you keep that bassline more isolated I would work much better. Track it kind of clipping too, isnt' it?
Yes this is underwater house genre since I don't like normal ground houses.
I really did not do too much with effects - just basics, lots of reverb everywhere and filter. I am new to making music so I feel I must mask everything with reverb
By clipping do you mean `form of waveform distortion that occurs when an amplifier is overdriven ' - I don't know how to do that maybe my cat did that when I left my computer for a moment.

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