Sub Bass in collision with other sounds
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:06 AM   #1
Lorenzo
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Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

Hi, I haven't found any solutions about my problem. Basically I have two patches: a sub bass and a lead (well, I would say low-mid). When they play together and lead/bass is tuned with the sub it's ok, but if I tune it to another interval (not 5th) sub starts vibrating. It's the same contrast between two detuned oscillators. It's MS-20, I should change the sub with a simple sine wave? I find difficult to mix "analog sub bass".

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Old 02-03-2018, 10:21 AM   #2
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

Have you tried making the lead wide-left and -right, with a delay or chorus? Using a highpass filter?
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:42 AM   #3
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

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Have you tried making the lead wide-left and -right, with a delay or chorus? Using a highpass filter?
I've tried using a highpass filter and nothing changes (obviosuly until bass disappears, but that's not what I want). I'll try panning, however chorus it's already there (really short Echoboy free time values).
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:58 AM   #4
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

Do both sounds have to be detuned? If yes, can't you change the sequence, so the odd subbass is in between the lead notes?

I fear you can't get rid of the vibration. It is exactly like detuned oscillators.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:05 AM   #5
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

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Originally Posted by Plague View Post
Do both sounds have to be detuned? If yes, can't you change the sequence, so the odd subbass is in between the lead notes?

I fear you can't get rid of the vibration. It is exactly like detuned oscillators.
If bass plays always a note, lead follows a progression on the scale, so I wouldn't really say I'm detuning them, they're simply playing at the same time two notes that aren't an octave upper/down or the fifth, so it causes vibration. So yes, I should change the sequence or try to substitute the sub.

I'll post again here if I find a solution, thanks for the help.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:39 AM   #6
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

eq
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:43 PM   #7
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

Working with bass frequencies in a controlled manner is indeed sometimes difficult. Small intervals in the lower registers often just don't work very well, since (as you've noticed) the harmonic interference between notes can create unwanted side-effects.

It's the same on acoustic instruments.

Besides what's already been suggested, you can try fine-tuning every interval in your bass voices manually (moving into scale micro-tuning territory) or try to adjust the relative volume of the notes for every step, in order to make movement appear more smooth.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:28 PM   #8
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

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Originally Posted by Lorenzo View Post
I've tried using a highpass filter and nothing changes (obviosuly until bass disappears, but that's not what I want). I'll try panning, however chorus it's already there (really short Echoboy free time values).
I hope I did not cause confusion, but I recommend to use the highpassfilter on the lead sound, not on the bass sound. The lead shouldn't contain that much bass.
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:48 PM   #9
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

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I hope I did not cause confusion, but I recommend to use the highpassfilter on the lead sound, not on the bass sound. The lead shouldn't contain that much bass.
No problem, I knew you were talking about the lead.

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Originally Posted by Iyashi Sound View Post
Working with bass frequencies in a controlled manner is indeed sometimes difficult. Small intervals in the lower registers often just don't work very well, since (as you've noticed) the harmonic interference between notes can create unwanted side-effects.

It's the same on acoustic instruments.

Besides what's already been suggested, you can try fine-tuning every interval in your bass voices manually (moving into scale micro-tuning territory) or try to adjust the relative volume of the notes for every step, in order to make movement appear more smooth.
Thanks, high-pass filtering dind't remove at all vibrations, fine-tuning intervals has been useful. Analog synths requires sometimes more precision for clean sounds like sub bass. A vst is fairly straightforward, even high quality ones (Diva, Monark ecc.) can't reproduce such unpredictable tuning behaviors (but I can't really confirm that).
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:13 AM   #10
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

Bit of a long shot maybe..but have you tried gating the sub so it plays with a fast attack between the lead? Maybe not the desired effect you want, but it might lessen the clash between the two.

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Old 04-03-2018, 05:59 AM   #11
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Re: Sub Bass in collision with other sounds

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Originally Posted by Lorenzo View Post
A vst is fairly straightforward, even high quality ones (Diva, Monark ecc.) can't reproduce such unpredictable tuning behaviors (but I can't really confirm that).
As an analog vst junkie of sorts, I'd say these vsts can emulate the woblyness and detune of analog oscillators pretty well. When I have an issue, I tighten up the tuning. Since I assume that's not a realistic option on hardware without repairing it, I'd say make sure your sub is very mono (which it should be coming from an MS-20) and only going into any processing that it absolutely needs. Even distortion or saturation that you use on every other channel could destroy a good sub. I don't see that you've said what wave you're using right now, but I gather it is not a sine. A triangle would be fine, but if you're using a square or saw, you'll really need a lopass filter by 100 to 200 hz so that the harmonics of your sub don't get into any other instruments. I think skrillex recommends 125 hz or something in that region.

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