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Old 05-12-2015, 09:43 PM   #21
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Tactical Otter View Post
Very true, it does seem like a lot of what keeps songs interesting are minor changes to the way it flows as a whole. One extra synth line can change the entire feel of a section without having to blatantly change the entire structure of the theme.
Minor changes rule the music industry, imo. Knowing when and where to switch things up to keep the sound fresh is part of what separates a lot of "beginners" from those more experienced. Of course, it's only one thing among, like, a thousand, but it's still something.

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Old 06-12-2015, 08:05 AM   #22
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Tactical Otter View Post
Or can we use it to create a meditative theme throughout a song, allowing for the listener's thoughts to almost be subconsciously incorporated into the music?
That one …..

You're right about vocals - similar to my earlier post ---> catching attention to a certain part (with or without vocals) while the rest grinds away is really a fantastic part of dance music / culture…

[edit: oops I'm drunk - I've just responded to the original post I think haha… I have this forum set up to show last post first? Good old sunday Drinking...]

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Old 08-12-2015, 11:56 AM   #23
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Listen to Basic Channel
Agreed
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:13 PM   #24
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Tricky topic for certain. Even if we simply look at the classical music, there is a wide spectrum in terms of repeating structures and variations thereof. Baroque is far removed from romantic era, which again is very different from minimalism.

Fundamentally the key is attention, and how to focus it - minimalism makes very little changes, but by doing so it makes those changes important. By comparison, music with clear themes usually makes the interplay between themes and the transitions into the focus. Humans are great at detecting change, and that can be exploited to great effect.

Looking at this from a different perspective, some amount of repetition is to be expected, but a lot can change within the constraints of a repetitive framework. You can move between intentionally unpredictive phrases and very repeating ones, but you can also have a core structure that repeats with some variations. These are two completely different approaches that work out fine - which hints at he fact that there is no clear formula - only genre-specific conventions.

Now, for popular music the key is easier. It is contrasting mateial between verse and chorus, first one of which is often varied slightly whereas the chorus remains similar between repeats. The contrast keeps the listener occupied, and the repetitions make the music predictable enough to be palatable.

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Old 08-12-2015, 04:17 PM   #25
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Erm... Music is repetition... Otherwise it's just noise dude...
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:20 PM   #26
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Music is simple guys, start out with scary swooshing wind effects that build up intensely. Drop them out suddenly and make a 4 bar loop of ill shit and bang that motherfucker for 2 minutes straight. Add another 10 second drop and jump back into the 4 bar loop and bang that motherfucker for another 1:30 but add an extra catchy hi-hat this time. Fade out and call it good!

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Old 09-12-2015, 03:38 AM   #27
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Add some sexy female vocals to it, and I'll listen. Risers is where it's at, though.

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Old 09-12-2015, 08:24 AM   #28
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

the thing about repetition is that it's not all or nothing; any section can repeat without being an exact duplicate of what came before. in fact, some of the most interesting music is continual permutations such that the music never really ever repeats anything at all but it still has plenty of implied repetition.

so you can have novelty built into even the repetitions if you don't use exact duplicates.
that's one of the strengths of breaks, breakbeat, and breakcore but it can be done and is done in other genres too.

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Old 09-12-2015, 11:35 AM   #29
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muse-ic View Post
“The music is not in the notes,
but in the silence between.”
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^^This

So many people seem to miss this completely, yet it's half the art of effect composition..it's all the difference between a boring piece and a piece that captivates the listener. It's how you play the notes that really counts..the timing of the intervals or spaces between the notes.

Sadly, it seems to be an art-form lacking in much of today's music, but if you listen, you'll find most of the top hits out there reflect this in their compositions in one way or another. Repetitiveness, in most cases, is deliberately use as a device, in contrast to more complex elements of the mix..so that the combined effect draws the listener and holds their attention.

In the end, I guess a successful piece of music is one that gets the balance just right, but what that balance is depends mainly on the style or genre of the piece in question, as it (repetitiveness) sometimes works better with one genre than it does with others.

Just my uneducated thoughts on this.

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Old 09-12-2015, 02:59 PM   #30
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

If you're going to use repititon, do it deliberatly. But if your song repeats the same beat simply because you copy and pasted the drum beat and couldnt be bothered to vary it, it will show.

I guess my answer is: repitition is good when used with intent

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Old 09-12-2015, 03:09 PM   #31
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

-basslines
-arpeggios
-beats (of course)
-repetitions of bridges or staff lines
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:40 PM   #32
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Thing is though, you can't have any music without heaps of repetition. Like yeah, you can have permutations, improvisations, maybe you have no note which repeats itself. But there is still repetition in everything you do otherwise there is no cohesion. Thus, like I said, it's just noise.

Whether it's the patterns in the harmonic content, the metre of time, or anything... There has to be some form of pattern (aka repetition) and if you're concerned about being too repetitious or too little, you're worrying over nothing.

Nystagmus hit it on the head when he said the best music evolves over time. That's the whole point, and there's a real simple test to determine whether your compositions are going anywhere or not. Just skip through it and preview a couple of beats here and there and if it's too similar or not similar, then you have a problem.

The music is just a matter of striking a balance between order and chaos. Like Muse quoted, "It's the space between." It's where each note takes you and good music is that which you find yourself not where you were with each passing moment. Blah blah blah etc.
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Old 12-12-2015, 03:00 AM   #33
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Layering can work well.
Removing, adding, dropping out, and building
on a large-scale creates form (Difference) over top of repetition.
Then the form belies a direction to the content on a huge scale.
Probably good to have a B section with totally different material as well.
Probably a little redundant at this point.
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Old 16-12-2015, 11:53 PM   #34
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Also, instrumental music although repetitive is most often played on real instruments by real people. A drummer playing the same beat over and over again still has tons of variation in timbre, volume and especially tempo compared to a drum machine.

A pretty repetitive drum track can sound a whole lot more interesting by just recording a shaker over it. Add some sidechain compression or gating to your "real" shaker track and your drum track is a lot more pleasant to listen to for an extend period of time.

I also saw in some Pensado youtube video how he would add a lfo on random to a highpass filter on the hi hats or cymbals on electronic drum tracks, just very subtle random changes on the high frequency to imitate the randomness of a real drum track.

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Old 17-12-2015, 11:55 PM   #35
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

Anything can be repetitive and catchy but sometimes its redundantly catchy.
I seen a really cool video called something along the lines of "turn 8 bars into 16 and keep people listening"
It was an interesting watch.

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Old 18-12-2015, 05:18 AM   #36
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Lepstok View Post
Also, instrumental music although repetitive is most often played on real instruments by real people. A drummer playing the same beat over and over again still has tons of variation in timbre, volume and especially tempo compared to a drum machine.

A pretty repetitive drum track can sound a whole lot more interesting by just recording a shaker over it. Add some sidechain compression or gating to your "real" shaker track and your drum track is a lot more pleasant to listen to for an extend period of time.

I also saw in some Pensado youtube video how he would add a lfo on random to a highpass filter on the hi hats or cymbals on electronic drum tracks, just very subtle random changes on the high frequency to imitate the randomness of a real drum track.
Yea, the minor, minor random changes in everything from tempo to power contribute a lot keeping things fresh with real instruments. Modifying these traits isn't half so easy via software as it is to simply make a minor adjustment in real life, but it's essential to keeping music from getting stale (along with, of course, changing up notes/beats).
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Old 18-12-2015, 05:36 AM   #37
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?
Sex.
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Old 18-12-2015, 05:54 AM   #38
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
Thing is though, you can't have any music without heaps of repetition. Like yeah, you can have permutations, improvisations, maybe you have no note which repeats itself. But there is still repetition in everything you do otherwise there is no cohesion. Thus, like I said, it's just noise.

Whether it's the patterns in the harmonic content, the metre of time, or anything... There has to be some form of pattern (aka repetition) and if you're concerned about being too repetitious or too little, you're worrying over nothing.

Nystagmus hit it on the head when he said the best music evolves over time. That's the whole point, and there's a real simple test to determine whether your compositions are going anywhere or not. Just skip through it and preview a couple of beats here and there and if it's too similar or not similar, then you have a problem.

The music is just a matter of striking a balance between order and chaos. Like Muse quoted, "It's the space between." It's where each note takes you and good music is that which you find yourself not where you were with each passing moment. Blah blah blah etc.
Nothing else to say now really.

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Old 18-12-2015, 06:19 AM   #39
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Listen to Basic Channel
YES!

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Old 18-12-2015, 09:03 AM   #40
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Re: What is repetitive in a good way?

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Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
Erm... Music is repetition... Otherwise it's just noise dude...
Now I have an answer to "why does repetition suck?"

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