Can't get it right...
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


Sound Design, Mixing, & Studio Techniques Need to know how to make a specific sound? Want to improve your mix? Need advice on micing-up a drum kit? This is the area for you.

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2015, 02:18 PM   #1
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Can't get it right...

Please have a listen at this one here:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


at 19 sec there is a sound starting that's unfortunately quite faint, but it sounds like a hollow pulse that sounds as though it has two pitches at once.

I've tried several approaches using basic analog forms with unison, ring modulation, pitch shift, two oscillators, various filter setting (double notch, multi band reject), yet I can only come close.

So, how does one create a sound that, I think, has only specific higher harmonics to create the sense as though it has two pitches? It's also a quite particular sound that I think has only higher harmonics. I guess that's what I so poorly describe as 'hollow'. It's not a classic saw, and not a sine wave.

I have tried mostly subtractive synths. I'm wondering if an FM synth (Reason's Parsec) might do better.

Any suggestions?

Advertisements


------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 07:57 PM   #2
relic
IDMf SupporterIDMf ArtistModerator
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 17,836
MC Status: 8562280
Thanks: 11,239
Thanked 7,427 Times in 5,250 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Could it be a really short pitch shifted delay? Or two layers of the same patch that are slightly ouf time? It also seems it could simply be two oscillators pitch three or four octaves apart. Seems like quite a bit of resonance is there as well. Maybe something to do with oitch envelopes?

I would say its square/pulse or a triangle wave if its subtractive. Both of those tend to sound more hollow like that.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to relic
liquid_air (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 08:05 PM   #3
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by relic View Post
Could it be a really short pitch shifted delay? Or two layers of the same patch that are slightly ouf time? It also seems it could simply be two oscillators pitch three or four octaves apart. Seems like quite a bit of resonance is there as well. Maybe something to do with oitch envelopes?

I would say its square/pulse or a triangle wave if its subtractive. Both of those tend to sound more hollow like that.
That's what I thought, so I was just getting more and more frustrated.

The pitch shifted delay sounds like a good idea. Somehow I couldn't even get my square/pulse waves to sound properly hollow. Any suggestions how to accentuate that specific aspect of their sonic signature?

Andy

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 08:11 PM   #4
relic
IDMf SupporterIDMf ArtistModerator
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 17,836
MC Status: 8562280
Thanks: 11,239
Thanked 7,427 Times in 5,250 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Usually resonance does it for me, but I prefer PW waveform as you can adjust, well, the pulse width to get that hollowness just right for the octave/notes you are playing. A BPF might be ideal.

I know my way around subtractive synthesis fairly well, but I just don't have that ear that lets me recreated sounds I hear.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to relic
liquid_air (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 08:57 PM   #5
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by relic View Post
Usually resonance does it for me, but I prefer PW waveform as you can adjust, well, the pulse width to get that hollowness just right for the octave/notes you are playing. A BPF might be ideal.

I know my way around subtractive synthesis fairly well, but I just don't have that ear that lets me recreated sounds I hear.
Same here. Thanks so much for your help. I think getting it in the ballpark would be good enough for me.

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2015, 09:37 PM   #6
Evelon
IDMf Artist
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,576
MC Status: 214390098
Thanks: 885
Thanked 2,833 Times in 1,765 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

The reverbed "alarm" tone? I tried some trisaw in two octaves (the higher one a little less loud) through a reverb and it was fairly close.

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Evelon
liquid_air (06-11-2015)
Old 06-11-2015, 11:32 PM   #7
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
The reverbed "alarm" tone? I tried some trisaw in two octaves (the higher one a little less loud) through a reverb and it was fairly close.
I guess you could call it an alarm sound, but given how you generated the sound, I think we are talking about the same thing. Sorry that I could t find another example with less other stuff around it. Pretty sure I've heard it before in PanSonic or COH tracks.

I'll give it a shot when I'm home.

Thanks!

Andy

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 05:49 PM   #8
Crude_beats
Banned
Crude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MC
Rocking my boat across the seven seas
Posts: 2,661
MC Status: 115728
Thanks: 1,268
Thanked 461 Times in 353 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Some LFO work in there, to filter resonance among things I think.

put it into a dist to get a more rough character to it
Crude_beats is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Crude_beats
liquid_air (08-11-2015)
Old 08-11-2015, 06:03 PM   #9
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Thanks. I'm learning quite a bit about subtractive synthesis in the whole process.

I got the hollow sound in there, but the bitonality still doesn't sound right. What usually ends up happening is that the sound becomes fuller as I try to get that aspect of the sound built in.

I tried:
- pitch shifted ring modulation (too saw like)
- PWM, wave table variation (I did this in serum and massive ... was thinking that Razor might be an option)
- BP and Notch combination
- Notch and Comb or Flange filter

Then play with unison, phaser, flanger, distortion, compression to get it right.
The combination of Notch and Comb with adjusting PWM in pulse/square waveform seemed to work best. I think you're right, this is probably a resonance and may be tricky to replicate.

Andy

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 06:25 PM   #10
aLiner
Knob Twiddler
aLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond repute
aLiner's Avatar
Galway
Age: 28
Posts: 218
MC Status: 2810
Thanks: 26
Thanked 56 Times in 38 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

if it were me I'd focus more on the resonance of the comb filter and the modulation of phaser (turn up the rate high), could be wrong but it sounds to me like there's no unison or RM
aLiner is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to aLiner
liquid_air (08-11-2015)
Old 08-11-2015, 06:44 PM   #11
liquid_air
IDMf Supporter
liquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MCliquid_air is a savage MC
liquid_air's Avatar
Corny
Posts: 2,830
MC Status: 63060
Thanks: 1,049
Thanked 1,261 Times in 928 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aLiner View Post
if it were me I'd focus more on the resonance of the comb filter and the modulation of phaser (turn up the rate high), could be wrong but it sounds to me like there's no unison or RM
Completely agree. RM is not the way to go.

------------------
Techno starts with a capital 'T', as in TB-303 and TR-808.

liquid_air is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2015, 12:48 AM   #12
aLiner
Knob Twiddler
aLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond reputeaLiner has a reputation beyond repute
aLiner's Avatar
Galway
Age: 28
Posts: 218
MC Status: 2810
Thanks: 26
Thanked 56 Times in 38 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aLiner View Post
if it were me I'd focus more on the resonance of the comb filter and the modulation of phaser (turn up the rate high), could be wrong but it sounds to me like there's no unison or RM
maybe you can also try to mess with the modulation of a chorus/delay plugin
aLiner is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to aLiner
liquid_air (09-11-2015)
Old 09-11-2015, 03:46 PM   #13
Crude_beats
Banned
Crude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MC
Rocking my boat across the seven seas
Posts: 2,661
MC Status: 115728
Thanks: 1,268
Thanked 461 Times in 353 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

It has some kind of doppler effect on it or smth close to it.

As in the effect that happens when a car approaches and drives by you.

Increase of volume and pitch to a maximum and then fades out and decrease of pitch. (pitch changes should be very small)

In this case pitch might not be affected much.

There is a variance in filter with a very quick LFO, playing with PMW etc might yield similar results. then there is a "lfo" or just fade in fade out, that deals with filter and maybe also pitch slightly.

I'm kinda bad at sound design at the most basic level. But I would do a sound that sounds Weeeeiiiioooo. First. atleast two layers for this one more metallic and the other more clean. The clean layer I would do in 2 or more octaves to get both the low end and high end in there. The metallic would be an upper layer. I would do a simple sound just fading in and out from these layers. I would add filter mod to it that opens up and closes, getting the Weeeeiiiioooo. Then last I would add the fast LFO that makes it "wobble" just a volume LFO should work. Add a bit of delay to the whole thing at the end.

I also think the pitch of notes used in this layer will be crucial to get it right. One note playing in there should probably be a bit "off" causing dissonance, it take my changes on the metallic sound or one layer off it. But its the dissonance between layers here that gives some of what it has.

Last edited by Crude_beats; 09-11-2015 at 07:22 PM..
Crude_beats is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Crude_beats
liquid_air (09-11-2015)
Old 09-11-2015, 07:27 PM   #14
Crude_beats
Banned
Crude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MCCrude_beats is a savage MC
Rocking my boat across the seven seas
Posts: 2,661
MC Status: 115728
Thanks: 1,268
Thanked 461 Times in 353 Posts
Re: Can't get it right...

Also for proper doppler you need to change the tempo. If we talk about rhythm like in the rhythm thread. as long as you have a center to the sound you can make it fit to tempo. You can leave the central place as the point where the car "passes". Here you can have a kick.

Try linking filter, pitch and rhythm(tempo).

Advertisements

Crude_beats is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Crude_beats
liquid_air (09-11-2015)
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.