PD installation with motion sensors concept.
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Old 25-03-2014, 01:00 PM   #1
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PD installation with motion sensors concept.

This idea is very much in its infancy so if it makes little or no sense please ask me to clarify.

I was at an art installation created by a friend a while ago and there was a DJ playing. This caused me to start thinking about how as DJs we read a room while selecting music. What if, rather than relying on a human to read a room, we used the room itself as a means of generating changes in sound.

What I am getting at is whether or not it would be possible to use motion sensors or other, similar technology to use movement as a means of modulating certain parameters within a PD patch. So as guests moved around the room, sensors would pick up this movement and use it to modulate the sounds. I do not know whether this would be feasible or whether anyone has approached this concept before but I am really interested to see if it would be possible. I am completely intrigued by the concept of taking myself away from the performance aspect and allowing the music to be changed spontaneously by the people who are experiencing it. No two performances would be the same as all modulation is completely reliant upon audience interaction and movement.

As I am not an yet an expert PD programmer, I am unsure as to whether there would be a way to integrate this kind of hardware into a PD patch. Also, I can see that there may be problems in finding such hardware that is affordable and can detect multiple movements at once.

If I am barking up the wrong tree, please tell me to stop wasting my time.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

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Old 25-03-2014, 01:12 PM   #2
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

PD can handle midi, right? If so you can make use of things like kinect & leap motion & convert their output to midi and have PD parse it. Unless you wanted to bypass the midi and use the raw kinect data directly...but I don't know how you'd do that in PD. You could also have a wii controller embedded in interactive art pieces which would allow people to get a bit more tactile with the music. Or even rip apart a midi controller and create 'hopspots' on the floor which people can trigger by walking on them. A keyboard controller will give you a load of buttons (all the keys plus all the other buttons on the controller) and will be straightforward enough to re-wire across the floor.
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Old 25-03-2014, 01:19 PM   #3
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Thanks Scyn.

I had considered Kinect but as yet I don't know enough about it to implement it into what I am attempting. (Lots more reading to do on that one).

I like your idea about the interactive art piece. I may start some ideas using OSC on a tablet just to see how doable this will be as I know that PD and OSC work well together. This may help form my ideas a little better and get me pointed in the right direction.

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Old 25-03-2014, 03:15 PM   #4
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Bollox to the kinect, go way easier. Webcam from above, pix_movement or pix_background. Like Scyn mentioned, though, pressure sensors on the floor would work. piezo elements are cheap and will do it for you. Infrared cameras on the wall if you wanted to spend more money.

The problem, then, is making all of your input usable and not just bleepy bloopy sounds, unless you want bleepy bloopy sounds.
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Old 25-03-2014, 03:15 PM   #5
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

If you aren't shy of setting up some electronics yourself, I would suggest you to check out the [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]
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Arduino is a collection of open-source microcontrollers, they all support the same (rather easy) Arduino software and have varying connection possibilities. They can be used to control a simple circuit at home up to controlling a whole art setup.
Because everything is completely open there is a lot of community support. There also seems to be some pure data stuff: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


I'm planning on getting myself one of these in the near future and experiment with translating real world data into computer programs

It depends on what you'd like to do of course, if you don't feel ready setting up your own little electric circuits it might be too free.

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Old 25-03-2014, 03:40 PM   #6
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

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Originally Posted by Bipolar Joe View Post
Bollox to the kinect, go way easier. Webcam from above, pix_movement or pix_background.
I wonder how many people kinect or even a webcam could track. You could create some really cool conditional statements like

if people.count=10, then do X, or
if people.count=5, then do Y.


You could then break those down further and say

if <(0.5).facing.direction=north, then do A
if >(0.5).facing.direction=south, then do B


So you could start to build up multiple conditions like X+A, and if they're associated cleverly with the musical output you can get some really interesting generative stuff going on. Generating those conditions from the kinect or other raw data might be tricky though - I know for kinect there's a few freely available apps which give you instant access to a lot of conditions - but they're probably more associated with single-person actions (lift arm, wave etc).

Still - if you can write your own code to handle the data from whichever sensor you use - you'll be able to do some incredible stuff, especially when you start to get consistently recognizable conditions popping up to direct the output.
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Old 25-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #7
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

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Originally Posted by Bipolar Joe View Post
Bollox to the kinect, go way easier. Webcam from above, pix_movement or pix_background. Like Scyn mentioned, though, pressure sensors on the floor would work. piezo elements are cheap and will do it for you. Infrared cameras on the wall if you wanted to spend more money.

The problem, then, is making all of your input usable and not just bleepy bloopy sounds, unless you want bleepy bloopy sounds.
pressure sensors was my initial idea like maybe using an enormous dance mat but again, I was unsure of how I would implement it. Fuck yeah, webcam would work and I could test that easily at home too. I will look in to that, thanks. I'm not thinking bleepy, I was initially thinking drone as I don't want it to be overbearing especially as I plan to set it up eventually alongside a friend's visual art exhibit. So I could have movements changing levels of harmonic overtones, FM rates/depths etc.

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I have had a brief look at the arduino and it is definitely something I will spend a bit more time delving into. My electronics skills are not great but I can get by so something like this may be doable with a bit of practice.

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Old 25-03-2014, 03:55 PM   #8
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

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Originally Posted by scyn View Post
I wonder how many people kinect or even a webcam could track. You could create some really cool conditional statements like

if people.count=10, then do X, or
if people.count=5, then do Y.


You could then break those down further and say

if <(0.5).facing.direction=north, then do A
if >(0.5).facing.direction=south, then do B


So you could start to build up multiple conditions like X+A, and if they're associated cleverly with the musical output you can get some really interesting generative stuff going on. Generating those conditions from the kinect or other raw data might be tricky though - I know for kinect there's a few freely available apps which give you instant access to a lot of conditions - but they're probably more associated with single-person actions (lift arm, wave etc).

Still - if you can write your own code to handle the data from whichever sensor you use - you'll be able to do some incredible stuff, especially when you start to get consistently recognizable conditions popping up to direct the output.
Just been chatting to my old man who is a bit of a programming ninja about this and he said the same thing. I am going to be very busy with this by the looks of it.

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Old 25-03-2014, 04:05 PM   #9
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

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Originally Posted by Bipolar Joe View Post
The problem, then, is making all of your input usable and not just bleepy bloopy sounds, unless you want bleepy bloopy sounds.
This.

This will be the real challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUN of IRA View Post
pressure sensors was my initial idea like maybe using an enormous dance mat but again, I was unsure of how I would implement it.
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might be an option. These are made from an elastomer that can conduct some current, when you apply force on it (squish it) the resistance lowers.
It's really inaccurate for real measuring purposes, but it can definitely tell you if the force is 'weak' or 'strong' and they are really cheap and sturdy. Should be really simple to mount them in a floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUN of IRA View Post
My electronics skills are not great but I can get by so something like this may be doable with a bit of practice.
Feel free to ask questions here or in the DIY thread

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Old 25-03-2014, 04:06 PM   #10
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

My friend did something very similar to this for his degree using Synthedit a few years ago with coloured balloons given to audience members as the source which were then tracked.

Expantions on this idea were then "borrowed" to make a gravity based synth which modulated according to the relative positions of planets on the screen.

I believe it's available in app form now.

Very arty, not really very musically applicable in most instances.
He was exploring the sounds in his head brought on by serious brain trauma.
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Old 25-03-2014, 04:35 PM   #11
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

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My friend did something very similar to this for his degree using Synthedit a few years ago with coloured balloons given to audience members as the source which were then tracked.

Expantions on this idea were then "borrowed" to make a gravity based synth which modulated according to the relative positions of planets on the screen.

I believe it's available in app form now.

Very arty, not really very musically applicable in most instances.
He was exploring the sounds in his head brought on by serious brain trauma.
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That is really interesting. Thanks for sharing. I am really enjoying listening to Anuerysm. that is exactly along the lines of what I had in mind. It is a very arty concept but I think that is what is interesting me so much about it. After spending so long using trackers and my music being purely pattern based, I am becoming more and more interested in doing something more chaotic that I have very little control over performance wise. Maybe I should be on an art forum rather than a music forum haha.

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Old 25-03-2014, 07:03 PM   #12
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Give me a minute or so to make something in PD, I'll upload it here. Half an hour, tops.
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Old 25-03-2014, 08:30 PM   #13
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

OK, so it was more than half an hour, but wutevs. Here's some stupidness to maybe get you started.

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First, start rendering, then turn up the [pix_movement] a bit until you start getting outlines. Turn on the metro, and start turning up the sliders. Bit wobbly, but subby bubbliness.
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Old 25-03-2014, 09:05 PM   #14
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipolar Joe View Post
OK, so it was more than half an hour, but wutevs. Here's some stupidness to maybe get you started.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


First, start rendering, then turn up the [pix_movement] a bit until you start getting outlines. Turn on the metro, and start turning up the sliders. Bit wobbly, but subby bubbliness.
Thanks so much. Will get a few hours to play with this tonight.

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Old 25-03-2014, 09:38 PM   #15
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Don't thank me just yet, it's not a very good system . One thing you could also try is [pix_pix2sig~]. There's a whole bunch of other ways I can think of. Honestly, I've tried more audio to video than the other way around.
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Old 28-03-2014, 11:01 PM   #16
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

I have been doing a little more research in to this idea and it seems that someone has already nailed something similar so the possibilities are definitely there for me to progress and try to build on what I have already.

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Old 01-04-2014, 04:11 PM   #17
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

I really like this idea.
I have been doing lots of thinking and noticing that the more a crowd sees the performer physically moving his/her body, the more interested in the music being produced they become.
And if they are able to manipulate what goes on, that could produce even more interesting results.
I once saw a guy use a kinect and yes he just hooked it up via MIDI, it looked like he had a graph doing a similar thing that Matt Bellamy's Chaos pad does with his guitar, (changes in the X-axis changing filter frequency, and changes in the Y-axis changing some other effect)
There have been a number of people who have done that, but there's so much more that can be done, like you are trying to get at.

I feel like there is a lot that you can tell about a person's mood based on the way they are carrying themselves.
There might need to be multiple kinect controllers handling different aspects or controllers of the sound that is going to be produced. Also using cameras in light of the "spheres" project that you mentioned. Building off that, but considering using kinect or other means of sensing different movements to control even more variables. There's so many possibilities and I would love to take time off my full time job to fully explore some of them.
It's also something I've been interested in since before I graduated from college: the idea of creating new ways to interact with computers.
A completely interactive room that reacts to everyone's physical posture, movements, colors of their clothes, the tones of their voices. The lights in the room and the music in the room can shift.
But I think part of the idea is also to keep it simple in some parts, so that you can come about a result before getting too wrapped up in the details.
I wish I could help more instead of just ramble on about how much I like the idea.
Keep us posted with your progress!

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Old 07-04-2014, 09:55 AM   #18
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

yes, this is quite easily achieved and similar things have been done.
knock yourself out

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Old 03-02-2015, 09:24 AM   #19
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Hello all This sounds like a fun project!
I put together an art installation a year or so ago that used a similar concept using OpenCV to monitor a webcam input and send numbers to PD that related to pixel changes and controlled a cross fade between two audio tracks and a video effect.

It was a bit of a Frankensteins monster of a program that I mostly cobbled together from the sample programs but I can vouch that it's definately possible with only basic programming knowledge like mine
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Old 18-05-2015, 06:45 AM   #20
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Re: PD installation with motion sensors concept.

Quote:
What I am getting at is whether or not it would be possible to use motion sensors or other, similar technology to use movement as a means of modulating certain parameters within a PD patch
Something like this? It seems doable. (youtube.com)/watch?v=6btFObRRD9k

sorry, can't post links yet :/

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