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Old 07-04-2017, 08:52 PM   #41
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

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Q Would using the onboard CPU for GPU not impact the CPU performance/resources for other tasks or does it not really work like that?

A Aye, doesn't work like that, they have dedicated silicon to handle the GPU duties. If you don't use it, it largely just sits there doing nothing.
I disagree with this on an academic level but given that it doesn't really matter we'll just assume he's right. What you also need to take into account is that you're also generating more heat in the same housing as the CPU and robbing general system ram to do so. Moreover, modern OSs are designed to offload anything and everything they can to a GPU which can provide gains beyond just alleviating the CPU of graphics processing. While on-board graphics is certainly better and more segregated than straight CPU/GPU emulation, it's definitely substandard (by degrees) in every respect except for space and power consumption. If those two things matter, go without a card. If they don't matter, put the card in.

I agree with everything else the fellow said. Whether you agree with me or him on the graphics issue is up to you, and mostly academic - it's not going to make a massive difference one way or another.

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Just to follow up on a previous post. Im I correct that the lanes is only relevant to the number of GPUs on the PCIe slots and is that really relevant to me if Im only ever likely to get 1 GPU in the future?
Lanes will also come into play when using PCI based storage, as well as a few edge cases that won't come up in a home scenario. Everybody brings up graphics because that's currently the most common use, but NVMe SSDs are getting relatively inexpensive and common for high iops storage. But unless you plan on loading down your PCI slots with high bandwidth cards, then no, lanes really shouldn't come into play for a single graphics card and low bandwidth stuff like Firewire.

As I've said several times and now backed up by Roo: you're overthinking it If there's more that $50 difference between the two options, go for the cheaper one. You're not going to get $50 better performance between the two.

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Old 07-04-2017, 09:15 PM   #42
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

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I disagree with this on an academic level but given that it doesn't really matter we'll just assume he's right. What you also need to take into account is that you're also generating more heat in the same housing as the CPU and robbing general system ram to do so. Moreover, modern OSs are designed to offload anything and everything they can to a GPU which can provide gains beyond just alleviating the CPU of graphics processing. While on-board graphics is certainly better and more segregated than straight CPU/GPU emulation, it's definitely substandard (by degrees) in every respect except for space and power consumption. If those two things matter, go without a card. If they don't matter, put the card in.

I agree with everything else the fellow said. Whether you agree with me or him on the graphics issue is up to you, and mostly academic - it's not going to make a massive difference one way or another.



Lanes will also come into play when using PCI based storage, as well as a few edge cases that won't come up in a home scenario. Everybody brings up graphics because that's currently the most common use, but NVMe SSDs are getting relatively inexpensive and common for high iops storage. But unless you plan on loading down your PCI slots with high bandwidth cards, then no, lanes really shouldn't come into play for a single graphics card and low bandwidth stuff like Firewire.

As I've said several times and now backed up by Roo: you're overthinking it If there's more that $50 difference between the two options, go for the cheaper one. You're not going to get $50 better performance between the two.
That's what hit me last night. The difference in the cost from an overview is 6800 results in one system only with parts migrated.
7700K results in new system with minimal parts from existing rig, option to put in newer GPU when/if needed future cost of 1 case and an OS key, results in two rigs.
Im pretty wrm on the 7700k route which was my original intention. Full circle!

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Old 10-04-2017, 09:34 AM   #43
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

Just flagging this to double check:

I'm not sure what your current purchase list is but make sure your PSU is meaty enough. Too many people skimp on this then end up crying into their unpowered GPUs. If you've done your sums and are happy, all good. In general terms its no more complicated than adding up the power requirements of all the bits you intend to build into the system. Apologies if I've gone full Captain Obvious and am looking a bit of an anal twat atm for something you've already checked.

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Old 10-04-2017, 03:01 PM   #44
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

Looking at 650 to 850 but as you will see from my post in the club banger thread. I've just put it on hold. Was intending to buy it all today and setup next week...not going happen just yet!!!

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Old 10-04-2017, 04:11 PM   #45
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

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I'm not sure what your current purchase list is but make sure your PSU is meaty enough. Too many people skimp on this then end up crying into their unpowered GPUs. If you've done your sums and are happy, all good. In general terms its no more complicated than adding up the power requirements of all the bits you intend to build into the system. Apologies if I've gone full Captain Obvious and am looking a bit of an anal twat atm for something you've already checked.
My experience is the opposite. I see people buying 1000W PSUs for systems than are might going to run 500W full bore. Or people just buying the cheapest thing they can find thinking all PSUs are made equal. I think the underpowered issue mostly comes from people trying to repurpose PSUs from prebult systems to newer systems, or when trying to upgrade their graphics card to some Twin Awesome TiPlatinum Buttfuck Monstrosity thing in their little off-the-shelf hand me down Dell.

But I totally agree, it's one of those things that you should always check. A little anal retentiveness can save a lot of hassle down the road. Just as important as wattage, double then triple check that the PSU has power connectors for everything. It's a real bummer to be ready to push the power button and find out you only have one of the two PCI-E connectors you need for your GPU.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:41 PM   #46
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

just a heads up though all the systems in my hopuse now have all gotten a pcie ssd m.2 drive upgrade as there awsome
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:48 PM   #47
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

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My experience is the opposite. I see people buying 1000W PSUs for systems than are might going to run 500W full bore. Or people just buying the cheapest thing they can find thinking all PSUs are made equal. I think the underpowered issue mostly comes from people trying to repurpose PSUs from prebult systems to newer systems, or when trying to upgrade their graphics card to some Twin Awesome TiPlatinum Buttfuck Monstrosity thing in their little off-the-shelf hand me down Dell.

But I totally agree, it's one of those things that you should always check. A little anal retentiveness can save a lot of hassle down the road. Just as important as wattage, double then triple check that the PSU has power connectors for everything. It's a real bummer to be ready to push the power button and find out you only have one of the two PCI-E connectors you need for your GPU.
Aye, I guess it would happen more around upgrade-time. I like that a lot of the modern PSU systems are modular, which is a great help. No extra cables taking up space inside the chassis unless they're needed and extra power connectors if you do need to plug in that latest gadget that didn't exist at the time you built your new supercomputer. The Corsair PSU I got comes with a nice bag for all the cables I don't currently need to keep them tidy until wanted. I don't know if the modular thing + baggy extends to the whole range.

Personally I nearly came a cropper last upgrade as I thought my existing 700 would suffice but it wasn't strong enough for all the crap absolutely necessary hardware I cram in. 800/850 would have been enough but I got the 1K because I know I'll be plugging more shit absolutely necessary hardware into that system in the next year or so.

Gotta power skybeams that will punch a hole through Mars.

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Old 25-07-2017, 09:11 PM   #48
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

So glad I sat on the fence

Still watching. Likely Ill jump in once the AMD Threadrippers come out and see what happens with pricing, performance, running ect with the Intel x299 boards.

Exciting times Longer I wait, more money in the bank = better rig- but damn it wont improve my musical skills.

Just hitting a wall on cpu hit on projects. So many reaktor ensembles I want to run that take up about 50%+, add in diva, a few more vsts and then insert some plugins...Ive crashed before Ive started!

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Old 26-07-2017, 11:08 AM   #49
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

The DSP limitations of even my MBP are becoming bothersome, so I can relate to the last statement. Since I'm an Apple fanboy, I am still eyeing the Mac Pro, especially since Logic would take advantage of the hardware setup. Are the basics still valid: more CPUs, fast large RAM, speedy SSD = improved performance? I've long since lost patience to wonder about chipsets on motherboards, graphics cards, etc.

Oh, and one more question: does migrating three DAWs with hundreds of plugins suck as bad as one would suspect? License transfer in particular.

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Old 26-07-2017, 09:07 PM   #50
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Re: System hardware migration aka New Rig (UK Based)

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The DSP limitations of even my MBP are becoming bothersome, so I can relate to the last statement. Since I'm an Apple fanboy, I am still eyeing the Mac Pro, especially since Logic would take advantage of the hardware setup. Are the basics still valid: more CPUs, fast large RAM, speedy SSD = improved performance? I've long since lost patience to wonder about chipsets on motherboards, graphics cards, etc.

Oh, and one more question: does migrating three DAWs with hundreds of plugins suck as bad as one would suspect? License transfer in particular.
Not an apple user, did try, didn't bite. Found them ergonomically expensive. That aside.
A lot will depend on the ASIO drivers with your soundcard, but if you are in the vst plugin realm as I, then more CPU = more processing power per plugin, less bouncing down. Fast large ram, larger projects and rendering times (along with CPU). SSD = running and boot times, data transfer speeds vastly increased.
Likely Ill go for an Samsung 960Pro SSDe, 16/32Gig DDR4 ram around 2600mhz, not worried about GPU so will keep using the EVGA 660TI as had a free 10 year warranty and about 4 years lef t(1080TIs will be cheap as chips by then). Use existing 6gb/s SSDs and HD's from the existing rig.
License transfers should not be a problem, particularly if you contact the developer prior to upgrading. Basically deregister all challenge.response or serial numbered software. This is where I appreciate ilok/elicenser...plug and play and can use plugins on any rig.

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