I really suck at mastering.
You are Unregistered, please register to gain Full access.    
Advertisements


The Studio All discussions relating to sound design, mixing techniques, music theory, composition, and gear.

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 27-06-2017, 04:38 AM   #1
Chaotix
Savage Mad Cunt
Chaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MC
Chaotix's Avatar
Vancouver
Posts: 1,270
MC Status: 752900
Thanks: 26
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts
I really suck at mastering.

I always get discouraged when I finish a song up and I think, damn I got this one sounding pretty loud. Then I scroll through some tracks on SC and think NOPE, mine still pails in comparison. I don't understand how people are getting their stuff so loud, and still having dynamic range.

It truly baffled me, and I've prowled all over youtube trying to find any source of information to help tackle this. Do any of you guys have any good sources on the loudness war and how to achieve what everyone else achieves haha.

Advertisements


------------------
Chaotix is online now   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Chaotix
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 09:14 AM   #2
-Agu-
Soundwave Mangler
-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute-Agu- has a reputation beyond repute
-Agu-'s Avatar
Helsinki
Age: 22
Posts: 191
MC Status: 4160
Thanks: 45
Thanked 83 Times in 58 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
I always get discouraged when I finish a song up and I think, damn I got this one sounding pretty loud. Then I scroll through some tracks on SC and think NOPE, mine still pails in comparison. I don't understand how people are getting their stuff so loud, and still having dynamic range.

It truly baffled me, and I've prowled all over youtube trying to find any source of information to help tackle this. Do any of you guys have any good sources on the loudness war and how to achieve what everyone else achieves haha.
I think the best source of information for me has been to analyse Noisia & Knife Party tracks in my DAW. But it's still a pain in the ass.

------------------
-Agu- is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to -Agu-
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 10:04 AM   #3
Entox
Deep Underground
Entox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond reputeEntox has a reputation beyond repute
Entox's Avatar
Bristol
Posts: 785
MC Status: 2184
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

I've been getting my tracks as good as i can through my DAW then smashing then through the high density mastering filter on landr.

Quite impressed tbh.

It's obviously just an algorithm but it does a good enough job for me.

I have signed up for the monthly version which gives unlimited mastering.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


Anyone else use landr?

------------------
Entox is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Entox
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 10:51 AM   #4
Mario D
Sample Destroyer
Mario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond reputeMario D has a reputation beyond repute
Mario D's Avatar
Croatia
Posts: 296
MC Status: 2960
Thanks: 25
Thanked 59 Times in 46 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
I always get discouraged when I finish a song up and I think, damn I got this one sounding pretty loud. Then I scroll through some tracks on SC and think NOPE, mine still pails in comparison. I don't understand how people are getting their stuff so loud, and still having dynamic range.

It truly baffled me, and I've prowled all over youtube trying to find any source of information to help tackle this. Do any of you guys have any good sources on the loudness war and how to achieve what everyone else achieves haha.
Probably studios and actual hardware instruments do the job. I can't achieve loudness too. I think it takes a lot of patience. Getting that little of overclipping and then fixing each clipping problem one by one.

------------------
Mario D is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Mario D
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 11:00 AM   #5
A.M
IDMf SupporterIDMf Artist
A.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MCA.M is a savage MC
A.M's Avatar
Age: 52
Posts: 9,407
MC Status: 181110
Thanks: 10,605
Thanked 3,622 Times in 2,701 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

The best thing I can offer is to mix as low as possible , so you end up with a good deal of headroom when it comes to mastering..that helps cut back on the clipping and gives you more room to compress for loudness, though I don't really go down that road myself..more interested in keeping as much of the dynamics in the mix as possible..but I get that some genres need to "sound" loud.

Proper gain-staging is another thing. I know that's a term that gets kicked around a lot, but it really does make a big difference to your end sound and the headroom you end up with..which again translates into more room to allow for compression in the end.

------------------
A.M is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2017, 02:05 PM   #6
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,862
MC Status: 19660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 393 Times in 341 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

2 words....... bus limiting.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to joem
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 02:49 PM   #7
chasedobson
bulletunderabloodredsky
chasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MCchasedobson is a savage MC
chasedobson's Avatar
Denver, CO
Posts: 3,181
MC Status: 1535477
Thanks: 1,009
Thanked 1,945 Times in 1,242 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Mastering =\= louderizing


Maybe it's in the mix...

------------------
chasedobson is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2017, 04:00 PM   #8
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,862
MC Status: 19660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 393 Times in 341 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entox View Post
I've been getting my tracks as good as i can through my DAW then smashing then through the high density mastering filter on landr.

Quite impressed tbh.

It's obviously just an algorithm but it does a good enough job for me.

I have signed up for the monthly version which gives unlimited mastering.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]


Anyone else use landr?
no because its full of shit.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2017, 05:36 PM   #9
Chaotix
Savage Mad Cunt
Chaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MC
Chaotix's Avatar
Vancouver
Posts: 1,270
MC Status: 752900
Thanks: 26
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M View Post
The best thing I can offer is to mix as low as possible , so you end up with a good deal of headroom when it comes to mastering..that helps cut back on the clipping and gives you more room to compress for loudness, though I don't really go down that road myself..more interested in keeping as much of the dynamics in the mix as possible..but I get that some genres need to "sound" loud.

Proper gain-staging is another thing. I know that's a term that gets kicked around a lot, but it really does make a big difference to your end sound and the headroom you end up with..which again translates into more room to allow for compression in the end.

Yeah I've tried mixing around -6db since that seems to be a good range a lot of people talk about. I find it actually sounds worse if I go lower on the overall mix throughout making the track. Because then when I try to bring it up, I'm really hammering on the compression to try and bring it up so it almost sounds worse that way... (I know I'm doing it wrong haha)

I downloaded one of those cymatics projects to see how they got their stuff so loud. When i looked at the master it was all stock ableton stuff, and when I turned all the mastering off to see where it was peaking at.... it was actually redlining haha.

So I'm starting to think a lot of these artists with super loud tracks do the same. The weird thing was, it wasn't super noticeable as distorting with the mastering chain turned on.

------------------
Chaotix is online now   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2017, 07:18 PM   #10
Evelon
IDMf Artist
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,578
MC Status: 214389848
Thanks: 884
Thanked 2,828 Times in 1,763 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

It's usually about the mix and having a good mix as possible. This takes time, experience and dedication. At this point you are not (and should not) "mixing towards a meter". The main objective would be to get a good and balanced mix, where everything sits in its seat.
You can still have 10 or more dBFS of headroom on your master. 24bit has 144dB of dynamics, which is alot.

I nowadays have access to great hardware in a mastering studio (it's treated by pros and sounds awesome), and have great masters (pun) that teach and have tought me well. The importance of hearing masking, spotting annoying and overpowering frequencies, mid and side balance (and individual M/S EQ, compression, etc). Knowledge about psycho-acoustics and the human hearing mechanism.

It's very often better that several processors (or plugins) do little, than a few doing alot. You can have one clipper before going into two SSL-like compressors (with gentle glueing compression) before finally going into a limiter. Keeping transients is key.

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2017, 08:18 PM   #11
relic
IDMf SupporterModerator
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 17,093
MC Status: 8538380
Thanks: 10,568
Thanked 6,949 Times in 4,943 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Not that id call what I do mastering but I almost always have two compressors on the 2bus for final processing.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to relic
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 09:59 PM   #12
joem
Savage Mad Cunt
joem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MCjoem is a savage MC
Posts: 1,862
MC Status: 19660
Thanks: 2
Thanked 393 Times in 341 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
Yeah I've tried mixing around -6db since that seems to be a good range a lot of people talk about. I find it actually sounds worse if I go lower on the overall mix throughout making the track. Because then when I try to bring it up, I'm really hammering on the compression to try and bring it up so it almost sounds worse that way... (I know I'm doing it wrong haha)

I downloaded one of those cymatics projects to see how they got their stuff so loud. When i looked at the master it was all stock ableton stuff, and when I turned all the mastering off to see where it was peaking at.... it was actually redlining haha.

So I'm starting to think a lot of these artists with super loud tracks do the same. The weird thing was, it wasn't super noticeable as distorting with the mastering chain turned on.
yea word of caution dont go off the cymaticks projects there awfully done and pretty much a con.
joem is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to joem
Lotus_Jewel (10-07-2017)
Old 27-06-2017, 10:44 PM   #13
NewWorldOrder
Solar Tribal Chief
NewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MCNewWorldOrder is a savage MC
NewWorldOrder's Avatar
Texas
Posts: 2,240
MC Status: 19460
Thanks: 323
Thanked 389 Times in 299 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

why not outsource?

------------------
NewWorldOrder is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2017, 01:51 AM   #14
Chaotix
Savage Mad Cunt
Chaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MCChaotix is a savage MC
Chaotix's Avatar
Vancouver
Posts: 1,270
MC Status: 752900
Thanks: 26
Thanked 30 Times in 27 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewWorldOrder View Post
why not outsource?

If you mean get someone else to do it for me, I'd like to try to learn to do it myself. Plus it's cheaper haha.

------------------
Chaotix is online now   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2017, 02:48 AM   #15
Vault O)))
Savage Mad Cunt
Vault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MCVault O))) is a savage MC
Vault O)))'s Avatar
Posts: 1,106
MC Status: 39510
Thanks: 1,001
Thanked 790 Times in 516 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasedobson View Post
Mastering =\= louderizing
This

------------------
Vault O))) is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2017, 03:03 AM   #16
relic
IDMf SupporterModerator
relic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MCrelic is a savage MC
relic's Avatar
The AK Rowdy Rowdy
Posts: 17,093
MC Status: 8538380
Thanks: 10,568
Thanked 6,949 Times in 4,943 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
If you mean get someone else to do it for me, I'd like to try to learn to do it myself. Plus it's cheaper haha.
Both valid points, however I'd argue you are paying for someone with a well trained ear and the tools to get the job done. For my an ME is going to hear what I can no longer hear and add a final touch from a differen perspective.

So much of what we do is already a one person affair. The collabrative part of music is dubiously lacking in the world of electronic bedroom producers.

------------------
relic is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2017, 03:27 AM   #17
soundmodel
Analog Lurker
soundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant futuresoundmodel has a brilliant future
soundmodel's Avatar
Finland
Posts: 97
MC Status: 1710
Thanks: 0
Thanked 34 Times in 28 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Mixing and mastering for loudness starts from selecting the right type of instruments and sequencing them in a "loudness maximizing way". Some genres are better suited for loudness than others. Mainly what you need is space. You have to have every element have enough space in the frequency spectrum so that they can hit as hard as possible and so that they aren't hindered by other, colliding sounds.

Also, different frequency areas are perceived more powerfully than some others. So instrument and sound selection plays a key (they have to have "good frequencies" in those areas). Also the pitches of all instruments play a key.

A compressor does not increase loudness, rather it does the opposite, it decreases the dynamic range. Loudness is greatest when the difference between the loudest and most silent part of the sound is greatest. A compressor reduces this.

What a compressor can do is make the tracks "glue" together better.

---

Another trick is to use small delays, like few 10s of ms between different sounds or hits that play at the same time. Few 10ms is not enough delay to be perceived as the rhythm not being tight, but it's enough to give the initial transients more power. This way the hits may separate better.

------------------
soundmodel is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to soundmodel
Bluesh1ft (31-07-2017)
Old 28-06-2017, 06:30 PM   #18
Evelon
IDMf Artist
Evelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MCEvelon is a savage MC
Evelon's Avatar
Posts: 7,578
MC Status: 214389848
Thanks: 884
Thanked 2,828 Times in 1,763 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Also, the loudness war is finally getting to an end.
Spotify, Youtube, iTunes (and soon more) are loudness normalizing at around -14 LUFS now. So you don't need to aim for loudness anymore.
Bring dynamics back.

Edit: [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click here to register]

Last edited by Evelon; 28-06-2017 at 06:48 PM..

------------------
Evelon is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Evelon
A.M (28-06-2017)
Old 28-06-2017, 06:46 PM   #19
Numerical
IDMf Artist
Numerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MCNumerical is a savage MC
Numerical's Avatar
Austin
Age: 40
Posts: 10,771
MC Status: 45942931
Thanks: 6,653
Thanked 5,695 Times in 3,587 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaotix View Post
If you mean get someone else to do it for me, I'd like to try to learn to do it myself. Plus it's cheaper haha.
Mastering usually doesn't cost that much, depending on who you're using. I mean it's good that you're learning to master but if you're spending all this time and effort making music and mixing it to your satisfaction, why skimp on the final stage? It's actually better imo to have someone else master since they come at it with fresh ears.

Always have a great mix before you attempt to master it, otherwise you're just going to end up going too far attempting to fix the things that are wrong in the mix and just make it worse. Small changes are the best and having to make big ones during mastering just tell you that there's something wrong with the mix.

Last edited by Numerical; 28-06-2017 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: typeos

------------------
brumski
Numerical is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2017, 06:49 PM   #20
Oatbag
IDMf Artist
Oatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MCOatbag is a savage MC
Oatbag's Avatar
Best Coast
Posts: 4,289
MC Status: 106800
Thanks: 1,405
Thanked 2,110 Times in 1,376 Posts
Re: I really suck at mastering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evelon View Post
Also, the loudness war is finally getting to an end.
Spotify, Youtube, iTunes (and soon more) are loudness normalizing at around -14 LUFS now. So you don't need to aim for loudness anymore.
Bring dynamics back.
I read an interview of Tareketh (sp?) talking about that. All the streaming is changing. It's a cool step, but for now it may mean we need 2 masters.

Advertisements


------------------
Oatbag is offline   Thanks Reply With Quote
Thanks to Oatbag
relic (29-06-2017)
Reply


Thread Tools

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughs on LANDR free mastering and mastering in general? JayMSay The Studio 16 27-02-2015 05:16 PM
Questions about mastering individual track and then mastering stems Grids/Units/Planes The Studio 8 04-02-2015 03:05 PM
New here, know how to use the FL but still suck? kassen The Studio 41 15-07-2013 09:00 PM
Why does most IDM suck? danknugz Intelligent Dance Music / Electronica 124 28-08-2012 01:00 PM
Chili Banks: Edit Your Drums L.P. (now free) + Win Mastering! @ Crisp Mastering chili banks Listening Booth 0 10-11-2011 09:43 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:37 AM.


Electronic Music Forums

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.