Why criticize someones art?
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:25 AM   #1
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Why criticize someones art?

Sorry I just want to address the current generation of internet bigots. It seems these days that everyone's a critic, we are invited to leave comments on just about every site out there, soundcloud, YouTube, all the artist forums etc, but did you ever stop to think about whether it's right?

I don't think so, I don't think it's cool at all, so so many people leave comment's solely to "one up" themselves, leaving neggs because they can, it makes them feel empowered, well who the f*** are you? Firstly, do you have any idea how far that artist has strived to bring you their art/music? which you get to view and listen to FOR FREE!

Do you have any understanding of how most artists struggle for years, through poverty, loneliness, rejection from society, exploitation even mental health problems, purely for the love of their art and what do you do, encourage them? make them feel appreciated? no you tear them apart just to boost your own ego, makes me sick!!

Let me tell you something, your opinion is not valid, These people are on their own journey’s of discovery, they should, we should be free to experiment, explore and find a new in our art without fear of being flamed for doing so. . The only person it has to sound good to is the artist who made it, if it's not to your taste, f*** off an write your own, you know?

I don't think half the people out there even deserve or understand what they have been given? Society no longer value's artists, they get paid absolutely nothing and are expected to give their life's work over to the public for free, only for some idiot to come along and tell them, that beat's shit mate. . . shit? I hate them, grrrr. you don't deserve to have art in your life, at all! Ever!!

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Old 09-03-2017, 10:54 AM   #2
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Travers View Post
Sorry I just want to address the current generation of internet bigots. It seems these days that everyone's a critic, we are invited to leave comments on just about every site out there, soundcloud, YouTube, all the artist forums etc, but did you ever stop to think about whether it's right?

I don't think so, I don't think it's cool at all, so so many people leave comment's solely to "one up" themselves, leaving neggs because they can, it makes them feel empowered, well who the f*** are you? Firstly, do you have any idea how far that artist has strived to bring you their art/music? which you get to view and listen to FOR FREE!

Do you have any understanding of how most artists struggle for years, through poverty, loneliness, rejection from society, exploitation even mental health problems, purely for the love of their art and what do you do, encourage them? make them feel appreciated? no you tear them apart just to boost your own ego, makes me sick!!

Let me tell you something, your opinion is not valid, These people are on their own journey’s of discovery, they should, we should be free to experiment, explore and find a new in our art without fear of being flamed for doing so. . The only person it has to sound good to is the artist who made it, if it's not to your taste, f*** off an write your own, you know?

I don't think half the people out there even deserve or understand what they have been given? Society no longer value's artists, they get paid absolutely nothing and are expected to give their life's work over to the public for free, only for some idiot to come along and tell them, that beat's shit mate. . . shit? I hate them, grrrr. you don't deserve to have art in your life, at all! Ever!!
80% critical comments I got from this site on my music, I've actually used to change my songs on better. Critique is good. Makes me a better artist. You just have to change your views on it, imho.

Long time ago in a desert there was a man with his camel. Traveler came to him and told him, hey man, cant you see a bee it following your camel and biting her in the arse all the time, what the f is wrong with you, help her. Traveler said, young man, that bee is the only thing that keeps this camel going.

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Old 09-03-2017, 11:08 AM   #3
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

the idea of "you don't understand my art because you're not an artist" is a bit echhh. People have all rights to criticize someone's works. At the end you're making it all public and it's not their primary intention to select some sort of victim and bash it for the lulz completely. While internet allows anonymity it works in such cool way that you can call everyone cunts and just disconnect forever with no consequences but this is only a tiny issue here. If everyone seems to be "against you", consider yourself being a problem. What I really dislike are people surrounded by delusions about their art and over-valuating it and when people try to bring up some serious thoughts on they're being written down as "haters" and play victimization card. Art deserves to be criticized because criticism is able to shape it by providing a totally different perspective on artist works and can totally change artists's direction which lacks of progression. Harsh criticism challenges you which is very necessary so you won't stay in that comfort zone. Learn to accept it and move forward.

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Old 09-03-2017, 11:35 AM   #4
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

Perhaps you're using the wrong word here. "Criticize" implies that the person making such comments wants to see the person improve. Whether the tone of the criticism is harsh or fair, criticism is absolutely important when it comes to improving anything at all. If you don't hear what people truly think about your work, be it positive or negative, then you will never improve. I mean, I thought I was in a pretty decent position in my music until I came here and people gave me a fair amount of criticism, however harsh it may be. If you don't look at your work critically, you'll never improve. And no, I don't think you need to be an artist to know what you're criticizing. I don't need to be a chef to tell you that your food's shit.

Buuuuut, I do agree about stupid people leaving brainless comments. I mean, there was a thread here recently where these guys bashed this artist simply because she makes pop music. I think a lot of people feel like their shitty little opinions are important, which is why they feel the need to share it. There's this lack of empathy that comes with the internet, and that's a dangerous thing. They don't think about what they're typing and how the other person might feel. I mean, sure, it's the internet, you should go in expecting the worse, especially when sharing your work, but sometimes there's just waaaay too much stupidity for me to handle.

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Old 09-03-2017, 11:37 AM   #5
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

I agree its easy to criticize, but you should separate real critics from those who don't get the stuff you're doing or are just being stupid.
I mean, people looking for good stuff generally don't go around bashing all the stuff they don't like.

Also, some people you get along with and some you don't, because some characters don't match. Art is an amplifier of these connections between humans, since it's one of the most self-expressing things you can do.

If you come across a genuine critic, you will know because you will feel that the points they make will improve your work. Also: artists can improve, but critics as well
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:44 AM   #6
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

Art is and always has been a subjective thing..and if say, I change what I do in order to please you, then doesn't it lose something along the way, becoming tainted by your expectations, rather than being purely a reflection / creation of my own artistic inspiration?

And that takes you into the whole debate on "outsider art" and what is REAL art.. on the one hand, it's implied that REAL art can only be created by somebody who's gone through the system and been educated, yet our museums are full of art made by our ancestors who had little, if any, education in their lives, and yet academia still accepts these works as not only art..but priceless art.

Personally, I think nobody has a right to say that which somebody else does is art or not..but they do have right not to like it..there's a big difference between the two..and others need to be more respectful of the work other people create in general, remembering that just because they personally don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong or bad..it just means that particular piece of art doesn't appeal to THEM.

If, say, you call my music total crap and I listen to you, and that then results in me changing what I do to accommodate what you said..yet there could be any number of "others" out there who totally disagree with you and loved what I was doing in the first place..even if there's only the slightest chance that this situation could be true, then it means I shouldn't listen to you or anyone else..but only my internal artistic voice and let that be what guides me.

Art is Art is Art is Art..I think more people should praise what they like and just ignore everything else..and the only critics an artist should pay any sort of attention to are his or her own peers..those who, too, are involved in creating art..everyone else doesn't know shit.

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Old 09-03-2017, 12:09 PM   #7
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

The biggest reason I post (so far only 2) songs on this forum is to get feedback.
I hear my own music so much in the building process - I don't know if I am hearing IT or what I Think it is.
Certainly anyone that says "Oh that's trash" or anything just spiteful can take a piss - but I am looking for ways to improve and other people's ears / opinion helps that.

Plus, it's the internet. You're going to have that.

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Old 09-03-2017, 12:14 PM   #8
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M View Post
Art is and always has been a subjective thing..and if say, I change what I do in order to please you, then doesn't it lose something along the way, becoming tainted by your expectations, rather than being purely a reflection / creation of my own artistic inspiration?

And that takes you into the whole debate on "outsider art" and what is REAL art.. on the one hand, it's implied that REAL art can only be created by somebody who's gone through the system and been educated, yet our museums are full of art made by our ancestors who had little, if any, education in their lives, and yet academia still accepts these works as not only art..but priceless art.

Personally, I think nobody has a right to say that which somebody else does is art or not..but they do have right not to like it..there's a big difference between the two..and others need to be more respectful of the work other people create in general, remembering that just because they personally don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong or bad..it just means that particular piece of art doesn't appeal to THEM.

If, say, you call my music total crap and I listen to you, and that then results in me changing what I do to accommodate what you said..yet there could be any number of "others" out there who totally disagree with you and loved what I was doing in the first place..even if there's only the slightest chance that this situation could be true, then it means I shouldn't listen to you or anyone else..but only my internal artistic voice and let that be what guides me.

Art is Art is Art is Art..I think more people should praise what they like and just ignore everything else..and the only critics an artist should pay any sort of attention to are his or her own peers..those who, too, are involved in creating art..everyone else doesn't know shit.


Yeah but someone could criticize the technical aspect of your music such as the mix by making comments such as "the bass sounds a bit muddy so try high-passing this or that synth" or something along the lines. That would be valid criticism that could help you improve your production skills.

I think it depends on what the purpose is. I believe that that is a big part of what then listening booth on this site is about.
And anyway, as someone else has said before, anyone has the right to also voice their opinion even if they are dickheads about it. If someone can't deal with that the. They shouldn't be making their art public.
Not saying it's good or nice or anything, simply stating that it will happen...

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Old 09-03-2017, 12:20 PM   #9
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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Originally Posted by professurreal View Post
Yeah but someone could criticize the technical aspect of your music such as the mix by making comments such as "the bass sounds a bit muddy so try high-passing this or that synth" or something along the lines. That would be valid criticism that could help you improve your production skills.

I think it depends on what the purpose is. I believe that that is a big part of what then listening booth on this site is about.
And anyway, as someone else has said before, anyone has the right to also voice their opinion even if they are dickheads about it. If someone can't deal with that the. They shouldn't be making their art public.
Not saying it's good or nice or anything, simply stating that it will happen...

Like I said..
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Originally Posted by A.M View Post
..and the only critics an artist should pay any sort of attention to are his or her own peers..those who, too, are involved in creating art..everyone else doesn't know shit.
I'll qualify that by adding that everyone else may not know shit, but they do have the right to say whatever they way..but we, as artists, also have the right to tell them to fuck off..or, better still, just simply ignore what they say.

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Old 09-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #10
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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Originally Posted by Richard Travers View Post
Sorry I just want to address the current generation of internet bigots. It seems these days that everyone's a critic, we are invited to leave comments on just about every site out there, soundcloud, YouTube, all the artist forums etc, but did you ever stop to think about whether it's right?
How is it wrong to criticise something? Personally, if my bass sounded shit and I couldn't hear it, I'd want to know. If my progressions were generic as fuck but I thought they were the new sound, I'd want to know. And if you don't want to know when your work is shit then you will always be shit at your work.

I get more pissed off when people hear my work and they don't think it's shit. Like my pet peeve when I used to gig all the time was finishing up and then spending the next hour or two dodging the compliments. Became a master at the art of saying, "Thank you so much that's so nice of you to say,"

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I don't think so, I don't think it's cool at all, so so many people leave comment's solely to "one up" themselves, leaving neggs because they can, it makes them feel empowered, well who the f*** are you? Firstly, do you have any idea how far that artist has strived to bring you their art/music? which you get to view and listen to FOR FREE!
Yeah. And a lot of people make music with software that they got for free as well. Who the fuck are they?

Honestly man, if you can't take criticism of your work then you definitely shouldn't be an artist. Shit, I think you'd struggle to find success in most forms of work if you can't take criticism.

Did you stop and think that maybe people criticise art because they want art to be better? Isn't it also possible that responding to that feedback and addressing the criticism might provide a more palatable product thus enabling you to make more art?

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Originally Posted by Richard Travers View Post
Do you have any understanding of how most artists struggle for years, through poverty, loneliness, rejection from society, exploitation even mental health problems, purely for the love of their art and what do you do, encourage them? make them feel appreciated? no you tear them apart just to boost your own ego, makes me sick!!
Yes. I also understand that if I try to do something for a long time and after years of toil it's still a struggle, then I'm probably not very good at it and should find something else to do.

I spend a fair bit of time working on music. I've got about fifty tracks from the last two years that I've spend hundreds of hours on and they're all awesome. But I'm not going to put them online because they sound shit. The production quality is terrible, the mixes are naff and I already know that's what people will say. Shit if I shared any work with someone it would be to ask for help because I just don't have time and space to do all the work that's required to print a track that's up to snuff...

Have standards. Your work will benefit from it.

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Originally Posted by Richard Travers View Post
Let me tell you something, your opinion is not valid, These people are on their own journey’s of discovery, they should, we should be free to experiment, explore and find a new in our art without fear of being flamed for doing so. . The only person it has to sound good to is the artist who made it, if it's not to your taste, f*** off an write your own, you know?
Wow dude.

I'd love to watch you clear the floor in the club and listen to what you said to the crowd as you dragged them back from the bar and forced them to dance because their opinion that the action's better at the bar is not valid... Shit... I'd pay good money to go to that show because clearing the floor with music nobody likes is one of my passions...

It's easy to get gigs playing music everybody likes. Only mad cunts can clear the floor and still get gigs.

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Originally Posted by Richard Travers View Post
I don't think half the people out there even deserve or understand what they have been given? Society no longer value's artists, they get paid absolutely nothing and are expected to give their life's work over to the public for free, only for some idiot to come along and tell them, that beat's shit mate. . . shit? I hate them, grrrr. you don't deserve to have art in your life, at all! Ever!!
Society has never valued artists dude. Artists have always been some of the most exploited workers since forever... Parents have been telling their kids not to pursue art since the beginning of history, and that's why you don't see documentaries about the art of the Da Vinci family or biopics featuring a young Van Gogh falling in love with the mother of his children... all of whom were also painters.
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Old 09-03-2017, 12:54 PM   #11
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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..and that's why you don't see documentaries about the art of the Da Vinci family or biopics featuring a young Van Gogh falling in love with the mother of his children... all of whom were also painters.
No..in reality we get ones on the likes of Mr. Brainwash instead.

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Old 09-03-2017, 01:06 PM   #12
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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Like I said..


I'll qualify that by adding that everyone else may not know shit, but they do have the right to say whatever they way..but we, as artists, also have the right to tell them to fuck off..or, better still, just simply ignore what they say.
I disagree. I don't think someone has to make music to hear that some bass sounds bad. Just because they are not musicians doesn't mean their ears are bad or they have no taste. Most of the people that will listen to a relatively successful musicians music won't be musicians so their opinion is at least equally if not more important.
I just wish that people who tell me something I make is shit also tell me why they think so, so I can distinguish between differences of taste or actual technical problems with my production.
I do appreciate when skilled musicians tell me how I can improve on my compositional skills as well but I don't think they are the only ones entitled to criticize my music.

Last edited by professurreal; 09-03-2017 at 01:17 PM.. Reason: typo

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Old 09-03-2017, 01:14 PM   #13
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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but we, as artists, also have the right to tell them to fuck off..or, better still, just simply ignore what they say.
I do agree on this part though.

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Old 09-03-2017, 01:22 PM   #14
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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I disagree. I don't think someone has to make music to hear that some bass sounds bad. Just because they are not musicians doesn't mean their ears are bad or they have no taste. Most of the people that will listen to a relatively successful musicians music won't be musicians so their opinion is at least equally if not more important.
I just wish that people who tell me something I make is shit also tell me why they think so, so I can distinguish between differences of taste or actual technical problems with my production.
However I do appreciate when skilled music tell me how I can improve on my compositional skills as well.

Believe it or not, Prof..I do agree with you for the most part..but I think "non-creatives" for want of a better term, fail to appreciate what goes into making music..nor do they sometimes get that a piece of music can be like a painting..it is what is..or, at least, is meant to be what you hear, which is often the case with ambient music..and yet you still get people shitting over what you do.

For example, I had a guy once tell me to speed up a 30 bpm soundscape.."because it doesn't work like that for me..and where's the beat, man?" Seriously? I'm supposed to respect a dick like that, who doesn't even understand the genre he's commenting on?

Obviously I know that's not what you're saying or that anyone should act on the feedback from such a person..well, I hope that's not what you're implying.

But, yeah, people do have every right to express themselves..but sometimes a piece of art is just what it is and should be respected as such..I guess that's what I'm basically saying.

And another thing, on a related note..you never hear anyone say something like "Caravaggio couldn't paint for shit!"..or "Michelangelo should have made David's willie bigger, it just doesn't work for me like that!"

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Old 09-03-2017, 02:08 PM   #15
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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Believe it or not, Prof..I do agree with you for the most part..but I think "non-creatives" for want of a better term, fail to appreciate what goes into making music..nor do they sometimes get that a piece of music can be like a painting..it is what is..or, at least, is meant to be what you hear, which is often the case with ambient music..and yet you still get people shitting over what you do.

For example, I had a guy once tell me to speed up a 30 bpm soundscape.."because it doesn't work like that for me..and where's the beat, man?" Seriously? I'm supposed to respect a dick like that, who doesn't even understand the genre he's commenting on?

Obviously I know that's not what you're saying or that anyone should act on the feedback from such a person..well, I hope that's not what you're implying.

But, yeah, people do have every right to express themselves..but sometimes a piece of art is just what it is and should be respected as such..I guess that's what I'm basically saying.

And another thing, on a related note..you never hear anyone say something like "Caravaggio couldn't paint for shit!"..or "Michelangelo should have made David's willie bigger, it just doesn't work for me like that!"
You are not disagreeing with me. What that guy said came down to a matter of differing taste. I wouldn't consider his comment to be anything about the technical parts of your production. Now if he said something like "that pad you have there completely drowns all of your drums thus making them barely audible" then that would be technical criticizm and I don't think you have to be a musician or artist to be able to make such a comment.
Even if it was an artistic choice on your side to make them sound that way I would consider this valid criticizm. Maybe we should just agree that anyone can make valid constructive criticizm but when it just becomes slander it's often best to ignore it.
And in such a case the artist is just as entitled to tell a person to fuck off as they are to voice their opinion.

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Old 09-03-2017, 02:14 PM   #16
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

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Originally Posted by professurreal View Post
You are not disagreeing with me. What that guy said came down to a matter of differing taste. I wouldn't consider his comment to be anything about the technical parts of your production. Now if he said something like "that pad you have there completely drowns all of your drums thus making them barely audible" then that would be technical criticizm and I don't think you have to be a musician or artist to be able to make such a comment.
Even if it was an artistic choice on your side to make them sound that way I would consider this valid criticizm. Maybe we should just agree that anyone can make valid constructive criticizm but when it just becomes slander it's often best to ignore it.
And in such a case the artist is just as entitled to tell a person to fuck off as they are to voice their opinion.

Yeah..that's about the bones of it.

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Old 09-03-2017, 03:33 PM   #17
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

Whether you are talking valid criticisms or "hater" comments...

...

...grow a thicker skin man. I kinda hate the term, but what a snowflake fucking rant TBH. Yea. The internet. Yea. People and their opinions. Internet haters aren't stopping anyone from making it or whatever. Take Skrillex as an example. That guy probably had more haters than fans "on the internet" in his day. Motherfucker is basically an auto-sync DJ with a laptop, still trainwrecks, haters hate him, fans LOVE him, makes mad cash.

Like...does it really stab you right through your fluttering little heart when you see someone chuggaluggin that hater-aide?

Everyone is a critic. It is human nature. Part of what seperates those artists whose work sticks around from the rest is that they didn't spend a bunch of time sitting around whining because someone criticized their art and that they need to be respected because they are an artist. Instead of doing that they go out and make some more art.

Also. Let's be honest. Most dance music is pretty utilitarian and disposable--which to me is kinda the cool thing about it.

Stop giving your shit away if you don't like that people get it for free then bitch about it. And, finally, you really don't need to be offended on behalf of anyone. I'm sure all those delicate souls can handle the youtubez trollz all on their lonesome. I swear. It'll be OK.

Last edited by relic; 09-03-2017 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:01 PM   #18
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

As an artist, in whatever capacity you find yourself in, takes courage to let others experience what you have brought along and nurtured through the growing pains of a project.

You are going to have people not only on the internets, but in real life that react to your work. It takes a perceptive ear to filter through the constructive criticism and harsh judgement of a hatersville resident.

If you let the bad critiques get you down, you will always lose. The haters outweigh the constructive voices almost infinitely. Just keep your head up and continue doing your thing.

Not only will you get better over time, someone may have a piece of advice that changes the way you look at something.
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Old 09-03-2017, 04:08 PM   #19
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

What Relic said. 100 percent.

Also, if you are happy with your music, if you...uhm... achieved you goal with it, if it is what you wanted, how in the hell can it bother you that some people don't like it?

The first time I made something that was exactly what I wanted, criticism became a non-thing... it's a mere echo of your music that slaps back from going through other people's ears and minds... It has fuckall to do with your initial inspiration/effort...

Aka who the fuck cares beside you?
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Old 09-03-2017, 06:01 PM   #20
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Re: Why criticize someones art?

R Travers, I really like what you wrote and understand what you said completely. Thanks.

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